ST The Effect Of The Sequel Trilogy On Star Wars

I think it came down to Abrams and his desire to recreate the feel of the OT. He didn't really want to tell a story about what happens next, he wanted the characters he remembered doing the things he remembered them doing. So Han was smuggling, or at least trading and Leia was back in a leadership role of a rebel force. The trouble is, these characters weren't static in the OT. Han's journey saw him going from a selfish rogue to a responsible leader who could be counted on when it mattered. Leia was a tough, no-nonsense rebel with a thick, impenetrable barrier around her feelings with no thoughts other than winning the war but through Han, allowed her walls to come down and hope for life beyond that of a soldier. To essentially put these characters back to square one due to events that don't even happen on screen was a betrayal of the growth they went through in the OT. The same is true of what Johnson did to Luke and on a larger scale, what was done to the state of the galaxy. Instead of moving forward with something new, they went backwards.

 

Lol, this reminded me of when I was still active on FB - the mudslinging, flaming, name-calling, etc. between fans who loved the Sequel Trilogy and those that hated it was just insane... Notably in groups with HUGE membership numbers (think above 10k) where things were kinda out of control... And made me leave most of them, leading to the eventual deactivation of all my FB accounts as well as deleting the app from my phone!

The ST is indeed very polarizing and caused a very obvious fracture within the fandom, something they I think will be difficult to patch up... And with regards to the much-maligned The Last Jedi, my kids (aged 6 and 3) actually loved that movie when we watched it in the local cineplex, so much so that they didn’t even want to sleep (the showtime was during their napping time)...

Also, Kylo Ren AKA Ben Solo, who’s my eldest son’s favorite, may have been seen as a whiny brat in The Force Awakens but upon the permanent removal of that mask in The Last Jedi, we can see how he changed into a more formidable yet conflicted villain... Rey may also be seen as a Mary Sue to some but if what I heard is true, she has a Force connection to Ben which explains how her skills and powers came to be - when Ben grew in dark-side strength, so did Rey but towards the light instead (hence the Yin Yang way of things)...

And what about Poe? We first saw him as a headstrong, skillful pilot in TFA (he helped to destroy the StarKiller Base) but the success must have got to his head in TLJ, which resulted in the destruction of not just the Dreadnought but even the entire fleet of (clunky and slow) Resistance Bombers... But by the end of the movie, we see a more level-headed Poe and one with true leadership quality, as shown by that attack on the FO forces in Crait...

So what I can say is that while the movie may be a shambles to some, the character development is still as excellent as always... And looking forward to how the trilogy will come to an end in 2019!


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Lets get something clear. "If" Han was as regressed as people claim, he would have been expecting payment to take Rey, Finn and BB—8 to Takodona. In fact, he wouldn't be suggesting they hook up with the resistance there because Han would have no connection with them or a desire to anything other than profit or distance himself from them.

Han's primary motivation would be to save his neck. Trading BB8 and the two fugitives to Kanjiklub and the Guavian death gang in return for safe passage would have been no skin off Han's nose.

After a setback it's common for people to seek a perceived comfort zone. This is why Leia refuses to leave the resistance to go after her son by herself. Leading, being the leading light of those comrades is what Leia believes she does best. That doesn't mean she's regressed either.

 

Right. Han hadn’t regressed as a character. He was just in a temporary rut.

 

Han definitely regressed imo. A man who was a general and hero of the rebellion is now a common criminal again. Its like if one was a delinquent in your teenage years and then got your act together became a lawyer or police officer but then hit a tough time and started knocking off convenience stores. If that isn’t a regression I don’t what is then.

 

Something in video form..

 

Han was not a delinquent when he was smuggling in the OT.

He was adept at knowing not to trust anyone and not sticking his neck out. Life, ironically, was simpler for him then. Circumstances compelled him to embrace comradeship with his new friends, from which he gained fulfilment. Circumstances and family failure have compelled him to adopt the skills that made him a "success" at smuggling. But TFA makes it painfully clear that this is folly and that Han, no matter if he tries, is not the scoundrel he once was.

The fact that the galaxy is divided would make it a strong market for a smuggler.

I don't subscribe to the need to make Han into some unassailably great guy because he performed very well in the wa rfor the winning side. "Wars not make one great."

 

I have never heard of smuggling as anything other than a black market endeavor. Also he is a smuggler for one of the biggest gangsters in the galaxy not smuggling weapons to freedom fighters. He may be a cynic but he’s doing shady things and calling him a delinquent is fair.

As for him being a great guy, that was his whole arc in the OT. He grew beyond the cynical guy he was in ANH. That being said you want to say his regression was natural to you fair enough but to say it’s not regression I think is not accurate.

 

When he was smuggling during the OT, he was not engaging in crime against a government that his own wife and the people who he called friends had fought and bled to restore.

The more I think about the ST's "world building", the more mindboggling the way logic and thought went out the window in the name of rehashing the OT trappings becomes.

 

I specifically said regression in the way the people were describing, e.g. ANH Han. And I reminded everyone what ANH Han was actually like. Helping good guys for no reward was not the Han we met in ANH.

Being great to Luke and Leia and lending his skills to the rebellion into the bargain does not preclude the way that Han has reacted to what has happened to his family in the meantime.


Why should Han's reaction to his loss be logical? His reaction is emotional.

 

Again fair enough but that doesn’t change the fact that it was a regression. His change was complete at the end of ANH. Case in point they start the Empire strikes back with him having been there for three years helping the rebellion.

At the very least it definitely is a regression from where he was in Return of the Jedi.

 

At the start of ESB Han is leaving the rebellion to go and pay a debt, and from the way Leia and him speak, his plan isn’t to come back and rejoin the fight at that stage

 

He left to pay the debt because he wanted Jabba off his back. He doesn’t so Jabba makes him a wall decoration. I sympathized with Han in that scene and expected him to come back after it was resolved.

 

I preferred TFA Han to ROTJ Han, mainly because it seemed like Ford actually gave a **** in the former.

 

Thanks for explaining that to me, but the point was that Han was looking for a way out right at the start, so in character terms, what we saw in ESB was Han looking for a way out until circumstance forced him to stay in the fight

 

He wasn’t looking for a way out in my view. He was looking to get that resolved so while his is helping he doesn’t have to also look over his shoulder for Jabba and the Empire. That is a big distinction in my mind.

 

Can you point to a line that suggests he is planning on coming back any time soon?

 

That is how I saw the scene.

 

I don't remember Han breaking the fourth wall.

 

It's made quite clear that the same dilemma is carried over from ANH. Stay and help his friends, the rebels. OR leave and pay his debts.

ESB is at great pains to show that this is it. There's no "be back ASAP". Everyone is saying farewell. It's wrenching.

 

I see them differently as I have said since the reason is so different. He is being completely selfish in ANH where here you sympathize with his dilemma. If he hadn’t grown he would not have come back at the end of ANH.

 

In ANH his reason for leaving is the same; to pay his debt.
In ESB, there is no reason to suggest he doesn’t still have the means to pay the debt, so it can only be assumed he intends to say his goodbyes, go off, pay his debts, and make his way in the universe.

 

Its well more than that. In ANH his reason for leaving was “and I'm not in it for you, Princess. I expect to be well paid. I'm in it for the money.”.

He is light years away from this sentiment at the beginning of ESB.