ST The Empire in the ST

Something else to remember is that there were elements of Roman Law and Roman Culture still in play centuries after Rome ceased to be either the center of the Empire or an Empire in either name or fact.

 

Agreed about the ST part, but not about TESB. While the Rebels blew up the Death Star in ANH, there were still numerous story threads left open and, while ANH could have worked perfectly as a standalone film, it was also built as a single block in a larger story. RotJ, however, very much felt like the climactic ending, especially when taken in context with the story set up in the Prequels.

The upcoming Sequels are definitely fighting an uphill battle in that they could very easily just wind up feeling redundant. I really hope they don't, and I really like J.J., but only time will tell.

 

But if the ending that we already have has to be undone just for the sake of getting more movies, then the Sequels have already miserably failed and down themselves to be nothing more than grabs at money.

Retreading old ground and undoing the past will be nothing short of tedious and repetitive. Why tack needless fluff on to what has already been concluded when you can go in a brand new direction?

I am saying all of this as a person genuinely excited to see what the future holds. I just hope that having a future doesn't mean destroying the past.

 

I've said this many times, but every single Star Wars film from 1980 on has deliberately forced a reevaluation of knowledge that was previously taken for granted. Undoing that which was thought to be true is in the DNA of Star Wars, and a certain amount of that is absolutely necessary to continue this story in true Star Wars tradition. Personally, I love always being able to examine the saga as a whole in a totally new light after each new piece of the puzzle is put in place, and if each film of the ST doesn't do this as well then I'll be pretty badly disappointed, because IMO that would be a real cop-out and a sure sign that they're playing it too safe.

 

Agreed. And Episode VII should do that as well, but not with the status of the war between the Rebels and the Empire. That's over and done with.

Instead, let us actually progress the story and elaborate more on other concepts. Things like Force Ghosts and the Netherworld of the Force have actually been left open for further elaboration and, as you say, will redefine the way we think of the Saga as a hole. And, of course, Luke training (or maintaining, depending on how long he has progressed in 30 years) the new, refined Jedi Order. Let us see how his Jedi contrast with the corrupt order of the Prequels, and let us see the New Republic and how it contrasts with both the Republic of Old and the Empire that it had overtaken in RotJ. There should ways to progress the story in new ways without saying "oh, the Empire wasn't really defeated in RotJ." And if not, then perhaps there shouldn't be a Sequel Trilogy at all. Despite George's original plans for a nine part Saga, the ending and the final three films were condensed into RotJ. And RotJ definitely does feel like a noteworthy ending.

 

This showed up in this thread as well?

THIS IS NOT TRUE!

This is Kurtz's idea of the SW saga that didn't survive early story conferences for TESB and Brackett's draft. It has nothing to do with the 9 Episode Saga Lucas developed.

Read the annotated screenplays and the Rinzler books people. They show how this developed, not Kurtz's interviews from 20 and 30 years after he was fired by Lucas.

 

Hmm, wasn't aware of that. Any links the quotes/summaries? Always interested in reading this stuff. As far as I've been aware, VII, VIII, and IX were going to deal with Luke's search for his sister (who was not Leia) and his ultimate confrontation with the Emperor in IX.

But regardless of what the plans are for Episode VII, it doesn't change the fact that having the characters still dealing with the Empire would be tedious and would undermine RotJ's ending. The same can be said for the Sith, but I'm not going to get into that right now...

 

I think some ideas got condensed and/or switched around because that's Lucas's ongoing process anyway, but the fact is that he was still talking about eventually making the ST in 1983 when ROTJ was being released, so he clearly wasn't thinking of it as a definitive ending to the series at that time.

 

The Emipre was too vast to be wholly defeated, even after 30 years and more an more star systems joining the cause. I foresee a situation similar to the cold war era. A cease fire with minor skirmishes between the two factions. Then an outside threat arrives forcing the Empire and the republic into an uneasy alliance. The Empire could not have been defeated after Endor, after all the whole rebel fleet was present there and a good part of it was destroyed in the battle. The Empire on the other hand had control over most of the galaxy. Even if people celebrated the death of the Emperor, the whole military was in the hands of the Empire. The civilian population simply would have had no means to overthrow the whole Empire. Look at how long the conflicts in "tiny" Irak and Afghanistan are going on and imagine warfare on a galactic stage...

 

If the Empire did continue without Palpatine, there's the question of what kind of government it became. If it was just Palpatine that was evil, wouldn't the Empire become a democracy upon Palpatine's death?

 

Witnessing Tarkin for example, I think that most of the governors were evil as well. The Empire favoured fanatics over clones as their troops, when the Clone War was over, so I guess that they did not simply surrender to that tiny rebel band...

 

Are you still on this? You're wrong, and several people have pointed it out to you. By the time RotJ was made, it was the end of Star Wars. Accept that move on already.

 

A little different in size and scope. The Nazi's lost their country and all their territory. Did the Empire get through off thousands of planets at the sametime once the 2nd Death Star was destroyed?

But thats what the ST will do. RotJ ended the story, and gave us a "they living happily ever after" ending. As soon as you decided to continue the story.....

 

What are you talking about? Every quote from 1980 until 1999 proves you wrong. There were plans for a ST even after Jedi came out as Lucas said in interviews from 1983, 85, 88, 89, 94 etc.

You're the one that needs to accept that you are wrong, always have been, and move on.

 

LOL, well you sure told me.

 

I can see space pirates on old Imperial vessels, but for all intents and purposes, the Empire is dead.

 

I have to agree, some people just need to leave the Empire alone.

 

I was perfectly over the Empire until reports surfaced that it still exists in some capacity, so I'm now forced to wonder what capacity that could be. Until then, I was one of the people saying it would be ridiculous for it to still be around after so much time. Ultimately I've found that it's best to keep your views flexible in regards to such matters, because otherwise you're begging for disappointment. What it comes down to is that if the people telling the story want the Empire to be a part of it, it will be. I do have to say that all logic aside, I'd love to see TIE fighters on screen again, and it's that kind of visceral reaction that I suspect they're determined to bring back with this trilogy. They know how much the iconography of the OT was missed in the PT, and the hints of it that we got were never quite the same as the real thing (and I say this as someone who loves the PT), so I don't think they're going to pass up the opportunity to bring it back in its original form, and I've made my peace with that.

 

Tiny Empire.

Smaller than a dwarf.

 

Well the PT had the Clone Wars and the OT had the Galactic Civil War. I'm guessing that the ST will have a different war while somehow continuing some of the threads from the previous movies. Maybe VII is the final showdown between the Rebels and Empire and ends with the real big bad emerging and VIII and IX would then be about the new war.
That's my guess, that it'll continue some familiar threads, at least at first, before going in its own direction.

 

One thing the movies have repeatedly shown us is that military might isn't worth a thing. From Naboo to Yavin to Endor, the stronger military always looses. In other words, all those Stormtroopers and Star Destroyers throughout the galaxy are useless.

 

Walk up to a Stormtrooper and say that...I dare ya!