ST The Empire in the ST

Sate Page died after the events at Endor. Long story short he took command after the Emperor's death but was overthrown by Ysanne Isard, to survivor her he offered the New Republic help to retake Corrusant but eventually betrayed them for another attempt to become the new Emperor by got killed by a Warlord Imperial Admiral who saw him as weak.

I have no idea who Gaius Grajeetus is though... sorry

Sorry but I see this as impossible. Too many systems where directly supporting the rebellion for this to become reality. Dac/Mon Cal would never throw Ackbar under the bus, he's too big a hero. Mon Mothma has too many connections to her homeworld being a former senator and all. Etc...


These systems would cash in on that helping hand, after the Special Edition RotJ we all know how big the partying was after Endor. Polititians would cash in on that, its just in there nature... and the Republic would support them in kind for a sense of legitimacy beyond fighting for what was right, not to mention for more ships/troops.

The only way they'd not support the Rebellion is if the Empire hit back a few world hard and fast for revenge. However that would require leadership... which the Empire was lacking. And if they gained that kinda leadership that quickly, why would someone with that much power and desire to hit back give it all up and remake a republic right after? Plus we all saw the partying, the Empre would have its hands too full with squashing them down to worry about a fringe fleet. Once the fear of the populace rising up has been squashed you'd end up with dozens upon dozens of localized leaders but no major authority behind them. So with no one to bring these guys together why would they all just agree to go back to a republic and choose to fight the rebels who wanted a republic?

 

Interesting stuff Hellhammer.

As some one said before though I wonder if it would be like what happened to the Nazi's. After their heads were taken away from them, most just lived under a state of fear of Vader, the Emperor. the Death Star, and a few other key figures. In reality maybe many of them did not want to be a part of it, and the Empire dissolved quickly though. I'm not saying this is what will happen but just making a counter point. They very well may of had some remnants, but in ANH the dissolution of the senate scared the crap out of them, and I bet many were ready to (maybe almost all of the systems) rebel, and turn away from the Empire. Hence why the Death Star was made, and for a few years even after its destruction the fear of what happened on Alderaan, probably as Tarkin said kept the systems in line. I think stuff was going bad for the Empire already and just a few things kept it from falling, fear being the main issue. Now that all of those things were destroyed I think the Empire may have crumbled very quickly. Though of course there is always going to be some systems, governors, and fleets that do not want to back down, but I bet most did.

Also I wonder if it's more along the lines with the 501st that they are indoctrinated to listen to who is in command. Just at theory.

 

My feeling is that the Empire as we know it was destroyed at the end of ROTJ, the Senate reinstated and democracy restored. Now the question for me becomes what happens to all the Imperial iconography... the Star Destroyers, TIE Fighters, Stormtroopers (which I still view as clones until otherwise stated in the movies), etc. Does it all disappear? That seems doubtful given the nostalgic direction they seem to be going in with this trilogy. So does the Republic continue to use it as it did during the Clone Wars? Are the clones freed and reintegrated into society, or are they still needed to police the galaxy until the Jedi can increase their numbers? I'm guessing they would still be needed for a while anyway. They don't take sides, they only take orders. Empire or Republic, it never mattered to them before so why should it now? But does this raise any moral concerns? We're told in Episode I that the Republic doesn't condone slavery, but isn't that exactly what the clones are? And of course the obvious question is once the Senate is reinstated, how many worlds will agree on how the Galaxy should be run? Until Palpatine declared the Empire, there were many who were dissatisfied with the Republic, but they had no choice but to comply once the Empire took over. Something tells me those worlds aren't going to be too keen on remaining with the Republic once the Empire is destroyed. After all, the Empire WAS the Republic. The CIS was absolutely right to want to leave it. Will the Republic be more willing to let that happen this time around, or will another civil war spring up in the wake of the Empire? This seems very likely to me. So I think the Empire will be gone, but the Republic will still be in a similar situation to where it was before it became the Empire, and will still appear to be very much like the Empire until it can learn from its past mistakes.

 

By the way, there's a crowdsurfing stormtrooper in the Coruscant celebration.

 

I think nearly a quarter century under Imperial rule should be enough to change many people's minds about the negatives of the old Republic and now there is a real chance post-Endor to make the reforms necessary in creating a new Republic that should have been made to the old Republic in 19 BBY. 23 years passed between the establishment of the Empire (from the Republic's carcass), dissolution of the Republic's remnants, and the severing of the Empire's head. In this case if we are to believe that 32 years have passed between Ep's VI and VII, then that leaves plenty of time for a new Republic to be started and the Remnants of the Empire to have, at the very least, been severely diminished. I'd say that there are military elements of the Empire still very much ready, willing, able, and available for a powerful new bad guy/leader to unite and make use of. Heck, I wonder if there are still droid armies left over from the Clone Wars which the new bad guy could use. I don't know that it is as easy for the Alliance to Restore the Republic to commandeer Imperial assets post-Endor in a wide ranging manner as has been suggested, maybe it is, but I'm not certain of it. It makes too much sense for TPTB to have the new bad guy use at least some elements of the Imperial military. There will be plenty of Imperialists who have lost their power who are interested in getting it back, a situation ripe for a new Sith Lord to take advantage of. I will be interested to see the new bad guy's relation to the Emperor, if any, I hope there is some connection, because I really like the Rule of Two and its necessary, but very loose, guidelines.

 

I think it's important to keep in mind that the Empire wasn't some outside entity that invaded and took control of the Republic. The Empire grew out of the Republic, and to those who wished to leave it in the first place, they may not see much of a distinction between the two. Once the Emperor was destroyed, there's a good chance that the Empire would simply be restructured back into the Republic once again, and that all of its resources would now belong to the Republic.

 

An alliance of stormtroopers and battle droids would be interesting.

I agree.

 

I don't think Palpatine looked at the Senate as a bad thing. He was a beloved Chancellor, and he even managed to gather sympathy and turn them overwhelmingly anti-jedi just with one speech (ROTS). Palpatine's rule might have been peaceful in the first couple of years, maybe even after a decade. People might have seen it as a positive change after all the losses of the Clone Wars. The Senate and its Senators helped to hold the huge Empire in one part. Imho, only when he and his appointed moffs realized that more and more star system are jumping out and support the rebellion, did they decide to dismiss the Senate completely. By that time, Palpatine's strongest supporters became the moffs, war with the Rebels became inevitable. We never see the Senate being disbanded, but it could happen just like Palpatine rose to power: maybe he announced that the threat of the Rebellion asks for "emergency powers" to take immadiate action and give the moffs complete controll.

I can see that happening, although I'm not sure of a Sith Empire, since both of the last Sith died with ROTJ (EU does not count in this case).

 

TCW's Ventress may have been a Sith Assassin rather than a Sith Lord- but I could easily see her having tried to carry on the Sith Legacy had both Dooku and Sidious somehow died early in the war.

Same principle may apply here- just because there's only two Sith Lords, doesn't mean there weren't students.

 

And who was their mentor? Because if we go along by the movies, Palpatine was the Master, Vader the Apprentice. No other Siths.

 

Very true. So long as they don't turn it into "Sith 90210," it could work.

 

I can't imagine Palpatine or Vader being that naive.

 

It doesn't have to be exact in terms of three empires, but I like the idea of three competing villainous forces making efforts to fill the power vacuum. Not to mention the threat of underworld figures a la Jabba the Hutt. That said, I hope the ST doesn't get bogged down by unnecessary political 'stuff'. That's one of my biggest gripes about the PT. Some of this scenario can be introduced in the opening crawl or quickly dealt with in brief exposition at the beginning ("Somebody has to deal with the Mandalorians in the outer rim!"). The Sith, if they're included at all, should be a subtle, hidden force. I wouldn't mind having as a plot point in Ep. VII having some new Jedi discover a Sith and having great trouble convincing everyone they're back (kind of like Voldemort in the first few Harry Potter books). The "reveal" would be Luke being killed by a Sith in Ep. VIII. Ok, now I'm just rambling...

 

THIS THIS AND THIS.

The fact that people even believe they aren't all clones really puzzles me. It's like they latch onto whatever story they like and claim it as canon regardless of the logic following the movies.

I am pretty sure he was dead....​

 

The stormtroopers vary noticably in height in the OT movies.

This suggests that they can't all be clones of the same man, at least- though many are.

 

I'm fairly certain they were meant to be the same height. This is highlighted by Leia's line, "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" The reality of getting that many people who are exactly the same height to be in the movie is another matter, which could have something to do with Lucas's decision to go all CG for the clones in the prequels.

 

Militaries can have height requirements.

Having a large proportion of them, but not all, be clones, allows all sources to be valid- rather than forcing any "out of continuity".

 

Or....mystery_roach was right and they were throwing subtle humor in there.... Not everyone is going to think that deeply about military height requirements in a Star Wars universe

 

Well, the beauty of Star Wars is that you can accept whatever continuity you want unless it gets specifically contradicted by the movies themselves. And for that matter, I guess you don't even have to accept all of the movies if you don't want to. As for myself, I choose to accept only what I feel is suggested by the films, which in this case is that they're all clones. But if the EU is your bag, (and I've liked some of it but ignore all of it in my personal canon) then who am I to say it has to be otherwise?

 

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I agree - from what's presented on screen, the Stormtroopers are all clones. The only thing that perhaps suggests otherwise is that Lucas never re-dubbed OT stormtrooper dialogue with Morrison's... but there's time yet.

 

Or, we could skip the whole "height" thing, and take into account another piece of info that is plain and simple within the story framework of the movies

Jango Fett was the basis for all clones.
Boba Fett is also a clone of Jango Fett.
Clonetroopers sound exactly (accent and all ) like Jango Fett.
(SE) Boba Fett now sounds exactly like Jango Fett.
Stormtroopers do not sound like Jango Fett.

So does that mean they are no longer clones or does it mean they started using different templates or does it mean they are still clones of Jango but somehow the voice has changed over the years? (Even to the point we see 2 Stormtroopers chatting (with different voices) over whether they are performing a drill). Take your pick.

EDIT: Just noticed Darth PJ beat me to it

 

I'd love it if all the clones sounded like Jango, however that's easily explainable. The first batches (and Boba) lived in proximity to Jango and for whatever reason picked up his accent, whereas the later clones were grown after his death and had no exposure to him or his voice. People aren't born with accents, they are purely environmental. I admit that doesn't explain why the two stormtroopers have different voices, but I guess I'm not overly bothered by that in the scheme of things.

 

I think GL just didn't bother to dub all the Stormtroopers.

 

We know that Jango is dead, so if you don't struggle to make it fit, it makes more sense to get new templates than to suddenly start using conscripts. (assuming maybe 4-5 different templates and suddenly the apparent height difference is explained). Also, even in the OT we never ever see an unhelmeted trooper, even though we see their helmets and heroes donning their outfits. I even noticed this as a kid at the time, there was something suspicious about them.
There is absolutely no advantage to using conscripts if clones are assumed already to be cost effective. Conscripts must be trained, they might be slow learners, have conflicting loyalties, families. Think! It makes absolutely no sense.

Also: The two troopers arguing about the drill to me sound enough alike to be clone brothers, even if not Jango

 

Indeed, the combination of clones and volunteers would make conscripts redundant.

Also, the Stormtroopers seem dumb in the OT, which could be explained by them being clones.