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ST The Empire in the ST

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by purplerain, Oct 2, 2013.

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  1. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    We've been through this time and time again. Whether Lucas planned more movies or not is useless. He put in the ending he wanted. Now that there will be more movies, the ending of ROTJ doesn't automatically get erased. There's MUCH more to the SW universe than the civil war between the alliance and Empire. There's many more interesting directions to go and places to explore.

    There's no point in undoing the OT just because there are going to be more movies. It just gives the filmmakers an opportunity to do other things with the SW universe rather than recycling.
     
  2. D'an

    D'an Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 21, 2014

    This is why to me a scenario of "every Moff for themself" is more logical outcome following the Battle of Endor. Without central leadership, Imperial factions would have been scattered by confusion, desertion, and infighting.


    And this doesn't mean we'll never see Imperial Star Destroyers and Calamari Cruisers duking it out on the big screen again. Disney is already planning multiple spinoffs. Bring on the Adventures of Admiral Ackbar!!!
     
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  3. plaidphoenix

    plaidphoenix Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 6, 2013
    I don't know if I was expecting to see Thrawn, but if I had made a list of characters from the EU I'd like to see, he'd have been on it. I doubt we will see him at all, but he could show up in VIII and IX.
     
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  4. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In one of the X-Wing books Wedge was reflecting on the fact that even though that Palpatine and Vader were dead, there was a lot left to be done to defeat the Empire. The Rebellion had a lot of diverse people in it. Palpatine and Vader united the Rebellion against them. Without them would the rebellion stay together and things through? It could go either way.

    I only see one moment in time. We don't know how the celebrations started or ended. That ending montage imo is now null and void. Are they celebrating the empire's fall or just Palpatine's and Vader's deaths and will be in for a rude awakening tomorrow? A character in Allston's Wraith Squadron books saw something like that happen on Coruscant. The main planet in the Empire going to the Rebellion without a fight? Not likely.
     
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  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012

    The scene in question:

    X-Wing: Iron Fist, page 33-34

    "People like Zsinj, they have to be squashed as hard and as fast as you can. Because the next thing they do is going to be something awful. They never do anything that isn't awful, and ordinary people get killed." Castin's tone was bitter, and other Wraiths perked up to listen.
    "You're speaking from personal experience."
    "Oh, yes." Castin looked around blankly, staring not at his fellow Wraiths but at some point in the past. "The day the Emperor died - what were you doing?"
    Face didn't have to think back. Most people recalled exactly what they were doing the moment they heard that Palpatine had been killed at Endor. "I was in civilian flight school on Lorrd. In class studying astronautics. Why?"
    "I was in one of Coruscant's plazas. A little one, couldn't have held more than a couple of hundred thousand people, way up high where only a half-dozen buildings cast shadows on it. The word spread like fire through an old building. The New Republic HoloNet broadcast was being rebroadcast on a wide band so that every personal comlink would pick it up. All holoprojectors were showing the second Death Star exploding.
    "The crowd went crazy. Loyalists were turning white. Some of them were fainting dead away. Rebels and people with Rebel leanings were going berserk. Before very long, they were actually tearing a statue of Palpatine down. A big one. It took cables and skimmers to knock it over. Castin shrugged. "And then the stormtroopers came."
    "To restore order."
    "If you want to call it that. They opened up on the crowd pulling down the statue. And their blasters weren't set on stun. You could smell the burning-meat odor all over the plaza. I was right next to a young mother who took it right in the head. I grabbed her baby on the way down so that it wouldn't be trampled in the stampede." He shook his head, his expression bleak, and fell silent.
    Face said, "The Imperial HoloNet wouldn't have transmitted the news of the Emperor's death like that. Not before they'd had time to sweeten up the story and turn it into some kind of Imperial victory."
    Castin shook his head, not meeting Face's eye.
    "So someone else, someone technically proficient, had to have intercepted it and rebroadcast it like that. You?"
    "My group was one of them, yes."
    "So Zsinj is another Imperial killer, and if you don't stop him personally, it's the plaza all over again. Is that it?"
    "Maybe."
    "Well, that's as good a reason as any." But that was an answer for Face. Castin might have volunteered for this duty without a blemish on his record, but there was still a possibility of volatility there. Now he had to wonder if Dia or Shalla were also carrying around emotional demolition charges just waiting to go off.
     
  6. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Going to be getting to that book soon enough but good to get the quote in the mean time.
     
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  7. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    There's a little nod to it in Mara Jade: By The Emperor's Hand - when Pestage congratulates Isard on putting down that protest.
     
  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Funny that Isard was so prominent in the X-Wing era and then faded back into obscurity. You'd think Pestage would be more prominent following Palpatine's death than he ended up becoming in the Legends universe.
     
  9. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 7, 2009
    I do hope the Empire, Moffs and stormtroopers are gone by Episode VII.

    In the years after the battle of Endor, the Moffs will try to fight to fight back of course, but I don't see it as realistic that a Remnant would last for 30 years.

    It would be cool to see the last remains fall apart (a Moff goes from having a small fleet, to one Star Destroyer, to few pirate ships as the good guys beat him time and again and he ends up going from warlord to pirate to a leader of brigands, like Pre Vizla in TCW, bullying villagers ) in the post-RotJ cartoons, books, etc. but they shouldn't be in Episode VII.
     
  10. dyous87

    dyous87 Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 5, 2006
    I'm sure there will be some type of Imperial Remnant in Episode VII. Maybe at this point they are siding with the Alliance or at least on amicable terms. Maybe they are but one of the several "successor states" that sprouted up in the period following ROTJ.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 7, 2009


    I'm not against an appearance this or the following two movie, but I don't want them to be the main threat.

    I do like the idea of "successor states" - I think a fractured galaxy sounds exciting, most systems independant or in alliances with others, clusters of systems under the rule of one world, old enemies back at each others throats - not all in open war but not on the best of terms.

    There could still be a much smaller Republic, or a League of Nations type collective.

    I want political shenanigans and social unrest as well as swashbuckling adventure and epic Jedi action.
     
  12. dyous87

    dyous87 Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 5, 2006
    This is the type of scenario I'd like to see for the ST. One galactic government to me seems unrealistic after the collapse of a galactic empire and the corrupt bureaucracy of the old republic.
     
  13. Jedsithor

    Jedsithor Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 1, 2005

    A moment in time happening all over the galaxy. The celebrations weren't just on Tatooine, Naboo and Coruscant, they were everywhere. That's a whole galaxy rising up in defiance against the Empire. What's the Empire going to do? Bomb them from orbit? They'd have nobody left to rule. That the people of Coruscant could rise up in such mass numbers says everything. As you said, it's the main planet of the Empire. If there's anywhere it wouldn't happen, it's there...but it did. The Emperor's trap for Luke doesn't just backfire at Endor, it backfires all over the galaxy. With the fleet stretched thin across the galaxy to lure the Rebels, they aren't in a position to help and they have no command structure to co-ordinate attacks or even give orders. The Emperor, the supreme commander of the fleet and the highest ranking admiral are all dead. With the fleet all over, the regional governors are basically on their own and only have their local garrisons to call on. That's not going to be enough to deal with entire planets of people across the whole galaxy. Coruscant, surely the most secure planet in the Empire wouldn't have allowed the protest to get started if it had the power to stop it. Regional governors would be overrun. The Moffs wouldn't have the chance to splinter off into new factions or try to restore some kind of power structure.

    We only see celebration at the end of Jedi. We don't see counter-attacks and unlike the end of A New Hope, there's nobody in the Empire left with the power to strike back. It's possible some ships might have struck out on their own or created some kind of Imperial Remnant but that wouldn't have lasted too long. Certainly not for 30 years.

    Should the Empire be in VII? Yes. As the Republic. The Empire is the Republic.
     
  14. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    More excellent points from Jedsithor! =D=

    Never even thought about the fact that with the Emperor, Vader, and the main control ship and Death Star all gone, as well as Coruscant obviously and clearly overrun, there's no realistic way to coordinate and get back together. All efforts to squash further rebellions would be isolated with no back ups...kind of like the way the Jedi had no communication at the end of ROTS.

    But here is a question for those who still think the Empire will be around in all of its glory:

    Where do you see the Sequel Trilogy going and what do you presume will be the result?
    (and "I don't know" is not a valid answer-it's a cop-out. If you are willing to declare that the Empire still exists, then you must put your money where your mouth is and say where you think the ST will end up).
     
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  15. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 7, 2009

    Yes, no-one in the GFFA is going to want to make the same mistake of the joining a one government galaxy - they are going to want to make new mistakes :)

    You'd better believe the Imperial Moffs and commanders would try bomb planets back into submission. They've taste absolute power for too long to let go. Plus, they'll be terrified too - they are war criminal. They'll be hunted down put on trial, if not killed outright.

    Our own history, even events today, is full of tyrants and their soldiers who cause wholesale destruction to retain power, to destroy what they can't have or cover their escape.

    There are also real life examples of a population or group who protest or rise, catching the authorities off guard, and those in charge regroup to put down the unrest. Such a thing could happen on Coruscant.

    Stormtroopers will flee their posts. Star Destroyers crews will mutiny. The Empire will lash out, turn on itself. Moffs will fortify systems.

    The Empire is decapitated in RotJ. It will never recover, but it's death throes will cause chaos for years.

    However, that belongs to the post-RotJ fiction. The ST should give us new villains and threats.
     
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  16. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    ^^^ Well said. Never thought of the idea that if the supreme ruler (plus the top officers) are gone, there would be regional governors, power-hungry tryant-wannabes, etc. trying to grab power. Problem is, there would be MANY trying to grab power that is up for grabs, causing self-destruction. That wouldn't have taken 30 years to clear out. None of them would want to follow any single other so they'd cannibalize themselves.

    There are historical references that support all sorts of things that stem from overthrown dictatorships. Lingering "remnants", new regimes, broken chaotic states with no central control, etc. I realize that using history as examples are pointless because for every example used to support an Empire remaining, there are examples that say it won't. Instead we are left with what the movies show and portray-that the Empire was overthrown-period.
     
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  17. dyous87

    dyous87 Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 5, 2006
    Think of the Roman Empire and what happened after it's fall...successor kingdoms eventually sprouted up and ultimately led to the predecessors to today's European and North African nations. Something similar on a galactic scale could be interesting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  18. D'an

    D'an Jedi Master star 4

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    Apr 21, 2014
    I'm sure there were Imperials trying to quell the rioting to varying degrees of success, and it would make a great spinoff. But surviving thirty years as a remnant is unrealistic and thankfully no longer cannon.
     
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  19. dyous87

    dyous87 Jedi Master star 2

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    Oct 5, 2006
    I don't think its unrealistic to think part of the galaxy, even if only a relatively small part, could have stayed under imperial control for 30 years. The galaxy is huge and there could have been regions and systems that were loyal to the Empire.

    I'm not saying the Empire should be the main antagonists. They don't even need to necessarily be antagonists but this scenario is not unreasonable.
     
  20. Darth PJ

    Darth PJ Force Ghost star 6

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    Jul 31, 2013
    That's not a great comparrison because Lenin and Stalin weren't deposed or killed in conflict and the Soviet Union was not on the side of the Nazi's in WWII.

    To be clear... I don't like the idea of the Imperial Empire coming back at all... I think it's largely regressive, and there's little conceivable narrative logic. However, I accept that they want to bring them back for the iconography... so for me it's more about what scenario is the least jarring... and that would either be some imperial remnant that is no longer in control of the galaxy, that forms an alliance OR the imperials get absorbed into the New Republic and the Republic military retains the imperial hardware e.g stormtroopers, star destroyers etc. Suffice to say that this wouldn't be half as problematic (for me anyway) I'd it had been set one, two, five or even ten years after ROTJ. It's this circa 30 years period that makes the premise problematic IMHO. :)
     
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  21. Hoggsquattle

    Hoggsquattle Jedi Master star 5

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    Feb 7, 2009

    Yes, but in as much as Star Wars can mirror real politics and conflicts, it is primarily entertainment and it needs to stay fresh. Rolling out Star Destroyers and stormtroopers isn't how to push it forward. It would just be because they are the classic, iconic villains and it would just be the same thing over again.

    Take the legacy comics for example - a hundred years later and another Sith Lord, another Empire, the same old white clad stormtroopers. A Jedi version of Han Solo.

    That is just remaking Star Wars.
     
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  22. I know

    I know Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 4, 2014
    Or playing it safe? Question is, how much of a gamble are they (Disney, Lucasfilm, JJ) prepared to take with their ??billion dollar investment on the first of at least five new movies that are in the pipeline? Not sure the risks will come in VII.

    Movie goers can sometimes be very harsh and unforgiving if you're perceived to fall at the first hurdle. Once you have them onboard you can introduce new/controversial/unexpected plot devices.

    So many people think they know what Star Wars should be but, often it's not the same thing. Some want tales told from the POV of the Sith (unlikely to be child friendly). Some want them to delve deep into the philosophy of the Force (unlikely to please Joe Average). Some just want action (Unlikely to please those looking for an engaging plot). Some just want Boba Fett (unlikely to please me :) ). Lucas knew this, so he made the PT to please himself. Will Disney do the same? Unlikely. The only option left to start to make their money back is to play it safe.
     
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  23. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    ^^^ I think that's why they can't wait TOO long to announce some sort of plot synopsis. You have to get fans ready and prepared for what SW will be about.

    Just because something is feasible and because it is symbolic does not mean it should be forced into the story line. Avatar was new and fresh and look at what happened to that, the biggest movie of all time. We already have the Big3, the Falcon, the droids and Chewie and can incorporate aspects of other ships, Vader's costume, and new stormtrooper designs into other plots. We don't need to press any reset buttons to make money.
     
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  24. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    I think even if we are getting the Empire back in some way shape or form, I still think they will be moving forward in new directions in other senses.
     
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  25. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Makes you wonder what Separatist involvement would have been like in the OT if they made the PT first and the OT second.
     
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