ST The Empire in the ST

This is not in dispute.

No, one of the issues in AotC is the superior numbers of Separatist forces. The only reason the Jedi survive the Geonosis rescue mission is that Yoda arrives with the Clone Army. And TCW shows regularly that the Jedi are very dependant on these troops.

The Empire is even more powerful and more vast then the Separatists and the Alliance no where near as storming as the Old Republic was were - even without a Sith in charge, how can one Jedi do what hundreds couldn't against smaller odds.

How do you know? The Prequels and TCW show clearly that the Jedi are for from being invincible. Look how dead Jedi are lying in the arena before Yoda and the Clones arrive.

This is obvious, but I don't get the relevance here.

There is no question that Luke's actions and choices at Endor helped turn the tide and the loss of the Emperor and Vader is a crippling blow - the worst I'd imagine - but the Empire is a vast organisation and remember what Tarkin said after Palpatine dismantled the Senate ... "regional governors now have direct control over their systems".

If the Senate still existed inRotJ, the Emperor put a serious obstacle in the way for the Alliance - there was now no central political machine for the Rebels to take control of. Each Moff and governor had their own fleet and army and could either fortify their regions or join forces and consolidate.

Plus, bear in mind that we don't yet know the political layout of the GFFA the condition of either the Alliance or the Empire in tST era. For all we know, the Empire is nothing more than a big gang of pirates and thugs run by a few warlords. Yes, the armour is shiny, but even Vikings liked to look their best when going on a pillage.



I'm all for questioning the decision - when I first heard the chatter of stormtroopers I scoffed, then the evidence hit and I didn't like, feared they were just going to cart out the old well elements just to get people hooked with the familiar.

However, I knew I wronging both Kennedy and Abrams - even IF the decision was made bring back stormtroopers because everyone knows and loves stormtroopers, that doesn't mean the can't find a creative way to make it work.

Myself, I wanted something totally brand new - but I'm not the one with the franchise on my shoulders. Sometimes just making something "different" isn't necessarily the best way to go.

And real life history supports the idea that the Empire could survive for that long after RotJ - like at the Roman Empire. They got badly knocked down a few times but kept on going. Even came back from complete annihilation once, unless I/m mistaken.

 

The biggest problem I have with what we've heard regarding the Empire is that you can't just have the Empire "be there" and not have an explanation. For the average viewer, they will be puzzled by that and it will seem like they just wiped out everything that happened in ROTJ. And you can't go around saying that those people are idiots just because they can't automatically accept that the Empire couldn't possibly have been destroyed because they are so vast. It will still go back to the celebrations at the end of ROTJ and how, without any really solid explanation, the Empire's return would seem weird.

It's not about whether the Empire could have collapsed. It's about what the movies themselves show. It's fine for it to have been like that after ANH. We knew there would be another movie and we were set up for it with Vader leaving unharmed. However, the end of ROTJ did not set anything up for the Empire to return WITHOUT there being an explanation for their return in the next movie. Of course that will be somewhat explained in the opening crawl and later explained in the movie, particularly since there will be a new leader (whoever that is) and the stormtroopers are of a MUCH different origin (most likely people forced into that lifestyle).

 

There was a celebration at the end of ANH. How many had difficulty accepting that the next movie had the same bad guys?

You are assuming that "the average viewer" can't imagine the hows and whys of how it could survive - especially considering that the opening crawl will surely explain everything we need to now as the movie begins.

Again, what is this "no explanation"? Why do you assume there will not be an explanation?

 

My guess is that we will have some kind of explanation. Perhaps somewhere in the opening crawl.

 

Yes, the opening crawl for certain - possibly more details related in a couple conversations, for example, Finn and Rey will most discuss how he ended up becoming a stormtrooper.

All relevant information will be supplied as the story moves along - perhaps with some small details left one to our imagination.

I think the chances of there being no explanation at all lie between none and zero.

 

I agree. I don't actually think the Empire would show up without an explanation in the crawl/plot. I just think that there are some who don't feel an explanation is needed. I would disagree with that but it seems that most others would too.

 

I haven't seen any posts like that - of people saying it doesn't need explaining - but there is a lot of people just against the idea of the Empire still being around.

Oddly though, since this seems to be the only bit of actual solid information we have concerning the plot, there hasn't been, that I have seen anyway, any of the namby pamby "handbags at dawn" malarkey that has gone on it other threads with getting upset about rumours with very little, if any, details to back them up.

Madness!!!

 

I haven't that heard that song in a decade, at least.

 

Some people don't want explanations!

I believe in explanations!

There might not be, there will!

Follow me?!

 

But if they are not the "Take out an army by yourself" kind of powerful, how could they have stopped the Separatists?

I'm not attempting to downplay Sidious' role in it all - it was all him, but for argument's sake, take him out of the equation for a moment.

The Separatist army was massive - millions of battle droids. If you throw enough at a Jedi, he/she will fall.It was the millions of Clones that kept them afloat.

Yes, "the Dark Side clouded everything" but that doesn't mean that they were able to pull cruisers out of the sky prior to the war.

I mean, that was the point of AotC and TCW - the Jedi couldn't do it alone.

Yes, Luke is a powerful ally - and a decisive force - but he is one man. Yes, he makes a great difference, but he is not so powerful that he can topple the Empire.

And, well the facts prove it. The Empire stands.

 

Have they mentioned who is in charge of the Empire by Ep VII? It seems like the Chrome Trooper is more of a general, Kylo has his own agenda (finding artifacts and killing Jedi), and Uber probably won't appear until the end of the movie. So who is left?

 

My guess is Gleeson's character. Gleeson, Von Sydow, and Christie are VERY nebulous right now at best.

 

I'm guessing Mas Amedda. He's still Grand Vizier in Rebels.

 

that might be interesting.

 

I'd like to see Gleeson as head of the Empire. A new Emperor, young, ambitious, evil but also flawed and overconfident in his youth; perhaps the son of the former Emperor (I'm assuming there was the one immediately after Palpatine, and then Gleeson after that). It would be fascinating and polar opposite of Palpatine of course to have the Emperor be in his late 20s, like a snobby prince trying to outdo his father and finish the Rebellion and the Jedi once and for all. It's against type a bit, but I can see Gleeson being a real snake and an elitist prick, too.

 

To answer your first question here of "how could they stop the Separatists?" The Jedi could have captured the Separatist leaders and ordered them to shut the battle droid armies down. The Sith version of this we seen in ROTS, which was to Kill the Separatist leaders and shutdown the droids.
Why fight a war against a massive Battle droid army, when you can cut the head of the snake by capturing/Killing the Separatist leaders and force them to shutdown the entire army.

Now take Darth Sidious out of the equation for a moment as you requested.
- In the TPM he ordered that the Trade Federation blockade Naboo, so that would never have happened and that chain of events would never have been set in motion.
- His other apprentice Count Dooku would not be a Sith, and would not have organised and directed the Separatists on Geonosis as seen in ATOC's.
- Even if the Separatists still had an uprising, they would not have stayed a step ahead of the Republic/Jedi for so long without Darth Sidious/Count Dooku tipping them off. And they probably would have failed to fight the war for so long without Darth Sidious giving them vital strategic Info on the Republic's forces.
- General Grevious would not have have been told to move the Separatist leaders from Utapau to Mustafar, and they would have been captured.


While you see the vast Separatist Army, you fail to see that this army was merely a puppet army that would have crippled quickly without the guidance and foresight of the Sith. Darth Sidious had access to all Clone Intel before the Jedi received it, and this helped him keep the Separatists ahead, helped him direct successful Separatist attacks to create Public/Senate panic in the Republic and basically helped prolong a war that made him more powerful the longer it continued.

 

I have a feeling we won't see the head or heads of the Empire in this movie, Instead the story will focus on the new lead character's.

I reckon Uber will have no direct link to the Empire at all, and will likely be Independent from The Empire/The Rebel Alliance.

 

I don't think we'll see the head or heads either.

That said, I think Gleeson is an admiral.

 

Why is seeing the head of the Empire and focusing on the new lead characters mutually exclusive?

 

I don't think they are mutually exclusive, however I do think Disney are following a similar Trilogy structure to that of the OT.

So I would expect TFA to Introduce us the new lead good & bad characters and give us a basic overview of the current state of the Galaxy. Then in Episodes 8 & 9, we will probably see the story expand to Include other figures.
From what I heard rumour wise so far, I don't believe a new Emperor was cast or will appear

 

I think there is a rumor that says that the chrome troopers are an elite group of sorts. Some Guards Corps or something.

There is also talk of a group of troopers armed with flamethrowers. What if those are the chrome troopers? Flamethrowers are supposed to be efficient anti-Jedi weapons, and the chrome armor could be ultrachrome or cortosis armor. Maybe those chrome troopers are Jedi-killing units.

Or maybe the ultrachrome/cortosis armor is the anti-blaster armor worn by the Imperial Guard.

 

This emperor is mad.

 

And I had such a hope for new members of "Church of emperor Gaius of the Holy Boot".