ST The Empire in the ST

We still have a lot of questions about how powerful the First Order is. Right now what we know is that the Empire doesn't stop existing after the Endor battle because its power is local to each star system. In political and social theory, this is a concept called local centers of power. Local centers of power -- cops, teachers, parents, mayors -- are always the true centers of power in a society. We imagine that a president or even a dictator is somehow omni-present in their deployments of power, but really it's always the local authorities who make the actual decisions and enforce policy in their own specific ways.

So lets imagine this stormtrooper Rebellion scenario. Does it really make much sense? Let's say stormtroopers in system A decide to rebel, it doesn't follow that stormtroopers in system B or C would as well. We know from the upcoming video game Uprising that the Imperial leadership simply isolates their system from communication with other systems, so they can deny Palpatine and Vader are even dead. So why should we imagine that stormtroopers in one system would be able to easily communicate with stormtroopers in another, or that the two groups would even have similar goals or values? Maybe system B's troopers are super loyal while system C's troopers like getting paid. This sort of scenario is system specific and it depends on who is in charge of the system, who is that local center of power, and how well do they run things.

So this theory doesn't make much practical sense to me. Also, this emphasis on stormtrooper rebellion seems to ignore the Resistance as a main player, Rey's role as a Jedi, and assumes Finn is somehow the great stormtrooper messiah they'll all magically follow.

Back to the Empire post-ROTJ -- we now know that it is a shattered and fractious Empire, not a defeated Empire. We have no idea if it's ever actually defeated. It may be that after the Moffs and Governors jockey for power, the winners form the First Order and decide to sign a treaty with the Alliance to end the war. So the war may end for some time, but that's different from the end of the Empire/First Order. And we've heard rumors of a Cold War scenario. That suggests to me the Empire still exists, even if it goes by a new name. By the way, it may only go by that new name to create the false impression they no longer want war.

It may be that the ST is about learning that the Empire has been biding its time while it grows more powerful via new superweapons. Perhaps that is what we learn in TFA, that the Empire is rearing its ugly head again, preparing a secret invasion.

So not only do all those systems the Empire/First Order held onto after ROTJ still need to be freed, but there's a possibility the Empire is ready to take everything back it lost.

 

Dra---

I hope the galaxy in the ST isn't just the Empire (or whatever ) and the (formerly) Rebel Alliance.

Independent systems, and smaller interstellar unions will make the GFFA much more interesting.

If there is a Cold War situation and the Alliance/Empire represent the USA/USSR, then it would be good if there is a Europe too. The Empire could have influence over a massive area outside its own borders while a similar area fears Imperial expansion but similarly doesn't want to be in the Alliance. There are systems stuck in the middle and the more powerful independents engage in espionage against both superpowers for there own protection and gain.**

I know the ST itself probably wouldn't have much time to go into detail, some references that allow comics and novels to expand on the political layout would be good.

I have to admit that I'll be disappointed if the ST GFFA is just Imperial space and Rebel space. Not in a kind of way, just that it would have been interesting to see.

** A very basic, simplistic view of the Cold War, but just to get the point across

 

Hutt Space, within the Outer Rim, springs to mind.

 

Yes, but I'd like more. For example, the Twi'lek resistance leader in TCW could be an an inspiration to the post-RotJ generation of his people to live free of a central galactic power. And many other species won't be so quick to sign up to a "New Republic" after living under the Imperial government.

 

The Zygerrians spring to mind - going by TCW, Palpatine planned on making heavy use of them and their slave operations as part of his upcoming Empire. Perhaps they'll want to restore their own Empire that was destroyed by the Jedi long before.

 

I was just thinking of those guys.

There could also be less aggressive star systems and those who secretly support the Alliance, but are close to Empire's border (and cut of from the Alliance by other systems).

Hyperspace travel would seem to be a problem though. Whole fleets could cross these independent star systems and there is nothing local governments could do, unless they had interdictor patrols or interdictors devices on their borders, which itself could cause problems for storytelling.

How does hyperspace work? The movies seem show that you can go anywhere once your ship plots a safe course, but TCW has a couple of stories about hyperspace lanes which suggested there are passages through hyperspace and you can't just go anywhere in hyperspace you want.

Has it ever been explained why the Republic and Separatists needed to make a deal with Jabba to use Hutts hyperspace lanes? Why couldn't the fleets just go into hyperspace and pass through.

Why couldn't the Separatist just hyperspace themselves to Coruscant? What was so special about the information that Evan Pell and Tarkin had in the Citadel arc.

 

I think the idea is that hyperspace lanes are free of nasty debris. Perhaps kept free through constant maintenance.

We saw in season 5, the droid squad's ship run into a comet, have to come out of hyperspace, and then take severe damage and crash-land.

 

I do know about the dangers of obstacles in hyperspace (and gravity from stars, et.), but I happened considered hyperspace maintenance as something that was done. It sounds like an explanation for the Hutt question alright. Is it your own idea or something from the GFFA.

How about the Citadel Arc? They were secret, newly discovered paths - seems to me hyper spacing to the capitail over thousands of years would have revealed them all.

And is hyperspace a collection of tunnels, as opposed to san area of free travel?

I don't remember that. What episode?

 

The Sanctuary Pipeline to Endor was an EU example of a new hyperspace lane being created and "kept open" via "S-thread boosters" whatever they are.

In Rebels, the Inquisitor attached an "S-thread tracker" to the Ghost at one point.

A Sunny Day in the Void.

 

That's just more confusing information that makes more questions.

Right as I hit reply "Sunny Day" popped into my head, although I don't recollect the scene. I read "droid ship" and was thinking battle droids. Good to know, though, that somewhere in my noggin there was a hamster trying to get a wheel moving.

 

I'm told that in the Tarkin newcanon novel, hyperspace beacons are necessary when it comes to getting around the Outer Rim in the Imperial era. If each hyperspace lane follows a line of beacons, and has been mapped out so that it can be traversed safely - it might explain why they're so important - because "off-lane travel" is risky enough that people usually avoid it.

 

It's at least a way to speed things up to show some sort of definitive end to the Empire, First Order, or whatever. In movies things can't linger on forever (well maybe they can if they plan episodes 10-30).

But remember all of the death eaters and orcs just kind of went crazy and left after their respective leaders were deafeated or shown to not be as powerful as expected.

Maybe they'll have the equivalent of the red stuff in Star Trek. Maybe they'll create a black hole that simply sucks the entire First Order into it and blasts it into smithereens. And they need that pesky lightsaber crystal to do so.

 

I was never really clear on this until the novel Heir to the Jedi. Basically the hyperspace lanes are safe lanes of travel -- you won't run into an asteroid or planet traveling through them.

You can find alternate routes too but there's no guarantee they're safe. In the novel, they use math and a probability formula to find an unknown path to escape, but when they take it, there's still a chance they may run into something.

EDIT: Hoggsquattle

I don't think the First Order will be exactly the same as the Empire even if they are essentially many of the same elements under a unified command. One big difference may be their apparently more overt cultish or extremist ideology. So they may be similarly large but diverge in habits and behavior. Like the General taking out his own troops.

I think the middle elements have always been there in SW -- usually through the crime elements, bounty hunters, and non-Republic/Empire worlds.

I don't expect a huge third player though in the ST. More like the GFFA finally resolves the long struggle that began in TPM.

 

Okay, I think I get it.

The hyperspace lanes (like the Hutt controlled ones in the TCW movie) are confirmed safe "tunnels "with little, or no, dangers along the way and are like the motorways/Autoban in the UK/Germany. There are also other less safe "back roads"** through hyperspace that require a navicomptuer to calculate as safe a path as possible, like the route Han takes escaping from Tatooine in ANH

** or the wide open hyperspace itself and rather than using a "country road", some people drive across fields.

Yes, I was pulled up on the differences just last night, but my response is the same ... I'm too old to start changing life long habits, and guy with red lightsabre commanding stormtrooper is the Empire.



Dra---

What did you think think of Heir to the Jedi?

On recent episode of Rebel Force Radio, Jimmy Mac read out a segment about the anti-Empire pop song "Vader's Many Prosthetic Parts" and apart from that atrocious concept (and the continuity problems it raises), the writing was absolutely woeful.

Is the book as bad as that section implies, or is just a hiccup that can be overlooked in an otherwise good read?

 

I didn't have a problem with Heir to the Jedi's writing actually. I found most of the reviews of it to be poor and written by people with no literary background, and really no business reviewing books; hence, most of them misunderstand what the 1st person POV is capable of and disliked it based on that "reason."

I also had no problem with the concept of music in the GFFA, or that a band might write a political song.

 

You seem to like that gif.

Poor Ellaria.

 

It's probably a period of detente between the New Republic and the First Order like the United States and the Soviet Union during the 1970s.

It would be interesting if the the galaxy simply is in complete chaos and there is no significantly stable government instead of an established Republic or Empire. The Rebel fleet is indeed ambushed and destroyed by the Empire after Endor and the Alliance never grows large enough to form a government at any level. At the same time, the Imperial military fragments into a massive civil war. Instead of trying to restore peace and freedom to the galaxy, the Rebellion instead unintentionally causes it to collapse into at least a dozen warring factions with them as one too. It's essentially anarchy. Even groups like the Hutts and Mandalorians are pretty able to form a warlord faction also in the power vacuum. The entire galaxy is in a state of oligarchy. It's sort of similar to what happened after the fall of Alexander the Great's empire declined in the wake of his death.

The Resistance is among many different factions of warlords fighting to form some sort of stable government in the galaxy.

 

Yup. It's comes in very handy around here.

 

I think the Empire continued on after the Battle of Endor, but not for too long. You are right that the head of state dying does not mean the collapse of a government - but let's not forget that the others that died included the enforcer, at least one grand moff (just worth mentioning), several members of the Imperial Ruling Council (I assume those are the cloaked people behind Palpatine), and presumably a large chunk of the Imperial Military. I'm sure it threw the Empire into disarray and perhaps chaos. I do not think there is anything canon regarding how power would pass down after Palpatine's death - elections? inheritance? What was Palpatine's (public) "will"? Assuming he wrote none, well then, anyone could have really claimed the title, and I'm sure that is the situation that occurred. TL;DR - After Palpatine's death, chaos ensued in the Empire.

The Rebels/"New Republic" most likely took advantage of this chaos. Though it was surely a bigger threat to the Rebels in some ways with no stable leader, it also surely decreased the stability of the Empire, and at some point the "Republic" swooped in with a final blow. But of course, the even with the Empire losing control of the galaxy, with all of it's military might, it likely didn't fully disappear. I assume Imperial Remnants happened, Imperial warlods controlling some systems in the Outer Rim and a little inner perhaps, you know the story. Eventually these remnants could have united under the banner of the First Order, perhaps with the help of Kylo Ren and/or Snoke? Similarly, should this situation be true, there were most likely rebel cells on these systems, who also eventually united under the banner of the Resistance. The New Republic, understandably, most likely did not want to get involved in yet another conflict/prolong the conflict with the First Order, but perhaps could lowkey be supplying the Resistance? Who knows... we'll find out in TFA.

Whatever happens, I personally hope there to be a central government - even if there is to be a "Cold War" style. If it's a loose First Order and Resistance and that's it, well, I personally believe that would be a bit strange, though it surely would not ruin the movie for me. So yeah - that's my speculation! Apologies if something similar has been posted, just wanted to share "my take" on what's up with the galaxy.

 

I think a colossal centralised government has been shown to fail twice already so I don't think it's wise to merely attempt reconstructing one but it'd hardly be surprising.