CT The Empire Strikes Back: Forever the best and worst of Star Wars movies?

Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.

Is it at once both the best and worst of the Star Wars movies?

Now personally I don't think it is the best (I'd place ROTS in that place) but regardless it certainly to many fans and the outside media world accepted as the best film.

It certainly is great (but then I think all SW movies are great so that doesn't matter to me in that sense) but it seems to me so much of that is because of it's perpetual state of permanent potential that it's left in. The movie itself has been frozen into a state of carbon sleep from which many fans were rudely awakened by in ROTJ and they never have seemed to get over it.

Let's look at TESB from both sides:

It's a movie with no beginning and no ending (well it does but that ending is in Return of the Jedi).

A New Hope isn't the start of Empire's story as Luke trains in-between the movies somehow (though we don't find out how).

Leia and Han fall in love in-between the movie somehow (the story in the film isn't about falling in love but Leia admitting that she is in love which Han already will admit to) that is the whole point of the "I love you." "I know."

Darth Vader goes from Imperial troubleshooter and Tarkin's dogsbody to commander of all save the Emperor in-between the movies (though we don't find out how).

On top of that Vader has this obsession to find Luke Skywalker who was identified as the rebel pilot who destroyed the Death Star (though we don't find out how).

The " better equipped than you think" Rebels go from destroying the Death Star that will restore freedom to the galaxy (as per the opening crawl of A New Hope) to being in a worse situation than ever in-between movies (though we don't find out how).

So as a movie TESB is clearly the most dependant on the other 6 movies around it to make it better. I,II, III and IV aren't like that and while VI needs V to set things up at least it tells what it needs in that episode.

TESB doesn't really end at all. IT JUST STOPS.

What also is strange about the relationship to TESB is that you can really only find out ONCE that Vader is Luke's father and yet on rewatches we already know but savor the reveal over and over again. So it's not really about us not knowing that makes it powerful (since we do know) but that we know something that Luke doesn't and when he does then we can relate to his shock over and over again. That being the case that in episodic order we find out in ROTS then the build-up of tension as to when Luke will find out goes through almost 2 whole films.

On the other side we wonder what is Boba Fett like in action? How or is Han rescued. Is Vader Luke's father real or a lie? Those and all the other questions are so tantalizing the best thing to do is to never answer them because there is no way that everyone could or would be satisfied with the answers.

 

I think it's considered the best because it's a great crafted movie. Personally it's always been my favorite, although i do now consider ROTS to be it's equal in terms of action and Drama. I think people already had ideas going into it about the characters. People already considered Vader to be the big bad memorable villain from A New Hope. As for the romance, well it's handled in a very abbreviated way really. Although people always seem to remember the first Star Wars movie fondly, it's really Empire that so much of the characterization and memorable dialogue comes from.

 

It is a very well crafted movie. It was also directed by a man who was much more interested in the landscape of the human face than the landscape around it, which gave TESB a slightly different focus. Also, it wasn't quite as loaded with Lucas-y quirks as the other ones, which I guess made it seem a bit more streamlined. That tends to be appreciated by some.

 

That's interesting, I've never looked at it like that before.

I never felt as though it lacked a proper ending or a beginning because all the main characters do go through some sort of growth and get to where they needed to go (sort of). Even if ROTJ never came about I think the conclusion was satisfactory enough, while leaving room for interpretation.

I love ESB, I think it brought out the best of Star Wars (humour, tragedy, fun, action, banter, spectacle). And there's the added benefits of not having to spend a long time establishing characters like ANH, or trying to wrap up too many story threads simultaneously (ROTJ).

 

The film has a very uneven flow to it and slows quite a bit in the middle plus the asteroid cave / space slug scene is pretty goofy. It is still a good movie but I view it as the most overhyped of the 6 current films.

 

I think that it's a great movie. Quite dark, and certainly, the ending isn't a happy one. It's very involving emotionally.

 

I think ESB is the weakest and dullest of the OT tied with TPM of the PT. Personally I do not grasp the popularity of ESB at all. About the only things of note are Dagobah and the Battle of Hoth. I consider it very slow and it attempts to be too grave without achieving the appropriate tone.

 

This ^

Han and Leia are ALMOST as bad as Anakin and Padme imo. Its also the only Star Wars film without a major space battle.

EDIT: P.S. my 1000th post!

 

That's why I like it. To me, it emphasizes that SW is just one flowing piece of cinema

I think reviewing each ep as a "movie" of its own is a mistake in that it's sort of created with intention to be viewed as one cohesive work. In a sense, they all depend on one another. There's not a single one which doesn't require either some previous explanation or leaves hints as to future events

 

I don't think requiring seeing 6 films as one continuous epic is needed. Each person has their own interpretation and way of connecting. It is not a 'mistake' to be different.

 

I never said it was

 

Personally I'm quite happy with not being told how everything happens by way of back story, or what happens after the film ends for that matter. That's not to say the back (and following) story isn't good too, but I don't really care that I don't know how Vader found out about Luke being the pilot who bull's eyed the Death Star or whether Han and Leia lived happily ever after. Not addressing these kinds of points doesn't make TESB (or any of the other films) any weaker for me. Does a film need a resolution in order to have a satisfactory ending? Not for me. A matter of taste I guess.

 

The Empire Strikes back is the only of the Star Wars films to genuinely qualify as one of the greatest films ever made. To this day, it is the most flawless mix of elements and it continues to have an immense influence on the cinematography, characterisation and pacing of modern films. Also, I think most of the things people most associate with Star Wars are from ESB: the music with themes like the Imperial March which just didn't exist in ANH, Yoda, "I am your father", etc.. If you had to take but one film to represent what makes Star Wars awesome, it would be ESB. And I for one am so unbelievably excited about this event happening over the summer in London:

 

I rarely see the puppet Yoda used as promotion these days, it's mostly PT Yoda. Also, as far as most recognizable Star Wars stuff, that is changing. Just look at the popularity of Ahsoka as an example. Just my observations

 

Sure, among the preteens Ahsoka is popular, but the general population's idea of star wars is still mostly based on stuff in ESB.

ESB really defined what Star Wars was going to be and massively expanded the feeling of scope. ANH in comparison still feels very rooted to its 1950s serial B-movie inspirations, rather than true mythological scope

 

The true two movies that represent Star Wars really well IMO are TPM and ANH.

 

I think generalisations can't really accurately be made. Each person responds to different things and none of it is wrong.

 

By whom? Either way, I'd say that's up to debate. TESB, as the sequel that it is, relies too much on ANH to be properly judged on its own.

 

I don't think Empire is necessarily precluded from being judged as great on the grounds that it's a sequel and, by definition, somewhat reliant on its predecessor. There are many other criteria on which to judge it.

 

The heroes escaped from Darth Vader. Ending enough for me.

Throwing out sequels because they are reliant on past movies is stupid. Should we throw The Dark Knight, Terminator 2 etc all out of great movie conversations?

 

Precisely true. Just look at The Dark Knight.

 

Don't forget The Godfather Part 2, half of which is telling the backstory of The Godfather.

 

That too. Just naming movies off the top of my head.

 

And then I stopped reading

 

I think it's one of the best films.