CT The Empire's involvement in the Clone Wars (Prequels excluded)

If we forget the prequels ever happened and base everything off of the OT, what did you guys think the Empire's involvement in the Clone Wars was? Because sometimes it seems to me that they had nothing to do with the Clone Wars and basically, after this catastrophic war the Empire rose and took control under the guise of repairing the galaxy and overthrowing the Jedi that they blamed for the war. Do you guys think they were a part of the Clone Wars or that they were actually between different armies?

 

I would have to say in this scenario, the empire's overt involvement was minimal or nonexistant during the Clone Wars.

 

So how do you think they came to take over the galaxy?

 

Their behind the scenes work and playing everyone stopped being behind the scenes and taking everything over starting with the Republic(taking the rotten republic and reforging it) and getting rid of the Jedi.

 

I don't think the Empire was involved during the Clone War.

When Luke asked Obi-Wan if he fought in the Clone War, Obi-Wan tells him the following:
-- He was a Jedi Knight, the same as his father
-- The Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice before the dark times, before the Empire.

Since Obi-Wan answers the Clone War question by saying that he and Anakin were Jedi Knights and that the Jedi were the guardians before the empire, it follows that the Empire did not exist during the Clone War.

Based off the OT, it seems that the Emperor (who wasn't emperor at the time) seized the opportunity of the Clone War to have Vader betray them when they were vulnerable. "A young Jedi named Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to evil, helped the Emperor hunt down and destroy the Jedi. He betrayed and murdered your father."

"Hunt down and destroy the Jedi" is the answer, but it doesn't tell us how or when. Vader could've betrayed them covertly one by one during the Clone War. Or the Emperor could've promised strong security in the form of an Empire and framed the Jedi as a threat.

 

Yeah, this is more or less what I thought as well. However, in ANH, Obi-Wan identifies the TIE Fighter that flies near the Death Star as being a short range fighter, he also says that the Imperial Stormtroopers are very accurate. This indicates a knowledge of the Empire from fighting them in battle.

 

Perhaps he fought them when he was fleeing from Vader's forces during the Jedi hunt.

 

"I haven't gone by the name Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born."

Suggests that he discarded the name Obi-Wan very early. Maybe in the "ANH-concept" the Empire starting hunting the Jedi - Obi-Wan and Anakin went in hiding to escape them - Anakin had a child - and shortly after that, Vader betrayed and murdered him.

 

What you described is literally exactly what happened in the films.

 

Prequel hating is still a popular fad.

 

Ties clearly lack large hyperdrive engines that we see on some Republic and all Rebel fighters. He knows Stormtroopers are very accurate because he lead them and fought along side with them, later against them post 66 (which also implies OT stormtroopers are clones).

 

The Empire simply occupies worlds that allied with the Separatists and conquers new systems in the name of the Emperor. It doesn't exist until after the war is over or is nearly over.

 

I always thought that they probably rose to power to fill the power vacuum left after the Clone Wars. Dictatorships tend to flourish in environments where they can offer certainty and stability where there has previously been chaos. I don't think Obiwan's knowledge of stormtroopers and TIE fighters necessarily indicates their involvement in the wars.

 

The backstory as it existed while the OT was being made seems to have been roughly the same is it turned out in the PT, except that the Clone Wars were most likely intended to be a conflict which the Republic was involved in much earlier. The transformation of Republic to Empire and the ensuing Jedi Purge occurred later, during what one draft refers to as the "Jedi Rebellion of '06".
Obi-Wan and Annikin/Anakin were involved in both - however, the Empire didn't exist yet during the Clone Wars, and it's unknown if the outcome had any sort of direct bearing upon the rise of the Empire, or if Palpatine was pulling any sort of strings. Most likely it was simply a devastating war which left the Republic weakened and millions dead, and Palpatine took advantage of this in order to seize absolute power and wipe out the Jedi, rather than orchestrating the whole thing from the start.

When it came time to actually make the PT, however, GL merged the mysterious 'Clone Wars' with the later conflict which was the true climax of his backstory. By doing so, he was able to make Palpatine a more sinister and credible puppetmaster, with his machinations starting relatively small (with the blockade of Naboo) and gradually putting him into the position of absolute ruler. Palps had changed during the development of the OT from a crooked politician into a full-blown Sith Lord, so GL probably figured he wanted his fingerprint on everything that led to the downfall of the Republic and the Jedi, he wasn't just someone who saw an opportunity and took it.
It also gave more focus in the story overall to something which fans had wondered about for years - the 'Clone Wars'. It might have been considered a bit of a letdown if this conflict was over and done with by the second film.

 

Good points, Nub. Plus, I should really point out that the S at the end of "Clone Wars" often gets ignored. There was more than one?

Also, for really no reason, I'm suddenly reminded of the 1996 US presidential elections and jokes about Bob Dole.

 

Sometimes it's the 'Clone War', sometimes it's the 'Clone Wars'. Apart from it probably just being a bit of inconsistency on GL's part in the writing, in-universe it could easily be put down to simple linguistic variation, based on who's speaking. One person might consider it to be 'The Clone War', i.e. one huge war encompassing multiple conflicts which arose from roughly the same issues, others might prefer to refer to such conflicts in the plural if they considered there to be separate issues at work, or if they appeared to end, then started up again. Many such conflicts are often referred to in the same way - the Napoleonic Wars, the Punic Wars - what it suggests is a long, miserable, drawn-out series of wars over the same damn thing. Might as well just be one long war with a few tea-breaks.

Also, the Second World War involved two major, separate conflicts - Europe and the Asia/Pacific regions - but it's generally referred to as World War II, singular, due to various national alliances (the Allied Forces vs the Axis). Even so, you'll often find texts making a point of separating them with terms such as 'the War in the Pacific'. There weren't any Japanese troops aiding the Germans on the Russian front, nor any Nazi battalions holding down strategic islands in Asia, despite both countries being a part of the Axis - although the Allied Forces tended to be present all over, despite the conflicts not necessarily affecting them directly (Australian and US troops in Europe, British troops in the Asian/Pacific region).

I'd say that the Clone Wars were intended to be a combination of both such scenarios - the Republic was involved all over, but their foes (the Mandalorian supercommandos are the only ones specified during the OT era) just dealt with what was going on in their own backyards.
At the same time, the Clone Wars might have gone on for decades, flaring up repeatedly after a couple of years of peace in between.