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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The Empire's Sexism and Racism

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Slowpokeking, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Or it could be wishful thinking on Corran's part, again.


    ....but then I just like anything that makes Corran look like a horndog that's full of himself. :p
     
    Gorefiend likes this.
  2. VanishingReality

    VanishingReality Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 21, 2013
    Thanks for the spoiler tags, I'm not done reading it lol

    Corran started the mission with the intent of 'seducing her' instead of the other way around. He said it was a common practice Corsec officers used while undercover. Tavira didn't like him until he "made" her kill Remart. (She's clearly just messing with him but what's married Jedi Corran Horn's excuse for wanting to seduce someone obviously not right in the head. xD)
     
  3. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    True. But exprtessing vocal dislike for a whole species because you've had run-ins with one of its members still qualifiy as racism, methinks.
     
  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    True. Might be a holdover from her time as an Imperial Senator- even if she believes in the Rebel ideals- the basic attitudes are not so easy to shrug off.
     
  5. LightsaberAccident

    LightsaberAccident Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Aug 26, 2013
  6. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I wouldn't read too much into it. Leia has a mouth on her and there's very little malice involved, just a complete lack of filter.
     
  7. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    This has always bugged me too. I wonder whether they had decided just how sapient Chewbacca was supposed to be at the time. He doesn't even react to that insult.
     
  8. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I think she's just frustrated and it's not as offensive as it would be in our world.
     
  9. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    The Star Wars blog articles (Alien Henchmen of the Empire) do suggest otherwise:

    http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/in...olerable-alien-henchmen-of-the-empire-part-3/

    Given the many aliens who worked alongside Senator Palpatine during his rise to power (Sly Moore of Umbara, Mas Amedda of Champala, Onaconda Farr of Rodia, and Kashyyyk’s Yarua, among others), few could have foreseen the ideological changes that would accompany his assumption of the Imperial throne. Palpatine’s true beliefs became evident only after it was too late for anyone to stop his sinister plans.

    Aliens, in Palpatine’s view, existed only to serve the humans of the Empire, whether willingly or through force. The enslavement of the Wookiees, Mon Calamari and others during his rule came as a shock to the galaxy, yet such tendencies were always present, if subtle. As a Senator for Naboo, Palpatine shared his people’s distrust of the Gungans who co-inhabited his homeworld. Despite a new understanding being established between the two peoples during the Trade Federation’s invasion of Naboo, he ruthlessly tricked Jar Jar Binks into convincing the Senate to grant him special wartime powers. His manipulation and subsequent abandonment of the Trade Federation shattered the Neimoidians’ power base, even while helping to build his own — and in having the Geonosians help design the Death Star and other war technology for him in secret, Palpatine maintained the illusion that he himself was a peaceful, benevolent leader.

    As Emperor, Palpatine fostered the concept of Human High Culture, asserting that humans were inherently superior to all other species. Though not all humans supported this notion, enough did so that aliens soon found their rights and freedoms restricted under Imperial edict. The widespread prejudice encouraged by the dictates of the Emperor’s New Order only made things worse for nonhumans everywhere.

    Still, Palpatine was definitely not a stupid man. He knew a valuable resource when he saw one, and utilized alien species for his own gain. Thus, a small number of aliens managed to gain positions of power within Palpatine’s dream of a New Order.
     
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  10. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I wonder if that's in-universe or out of universe.

    Anyway, we have enough viewpoints of Palpatine that we know he never thinks of humans vs. aliens.
     
  11. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    I think she is just annoyed with both Han and Chewie. She's equally caustic with both, and nearly as much with Luke before he told her he was with Kenobi. The little Detention block -> garbage masher escapade also wasn't their finest hour.
     
  12. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013
    I've always been fond of the idea that Palpatine hates aliens because he grew up on Naboo, where the only aliens around are Gungans. Under those circumstances, who wouldn't decide that non-humans are scum? Slimy, clumsy scum with terrible diction. It makes perfect sense, I tell you! ;)
     
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  13. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I disagree with Aliens of the Empire pretty thoroughly on that part, and I'd argue it goes against the weight of the evidence. That said, the Naboo comment above does match some speculation I had in the past that any anti-alien sentiment Palpatine had was a result of his Naboo upbringing. In cut scenes, Amidala (Sabé) balked at having a Gungan onboard her ship -- the anti-alien thing may have taken root there, if it did exist.

    What about her racism against Hutts? Or... any number of other species the SW universe has decided constitutes the underworld? Like -- it's one thing for fans to be like that, but for a supposed diplomat and statesman like Leia? She's pretty racist. She's like that rich lady who won't go into certain neighborhoods because of the "criminal element" (read: minorities).
     
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  14. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I dunno. It's hard not to hate the Hutts when their culture is literally, "lord over lesser beings."
     
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  15. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Hey, you won't find me arguing about that. I despise the Hutts and have no problems painting other species with a broad brush. :p

    It's just that people ought to acknowledge that Leia does the same thing too -- she's not really very tolerant.
     
  16. Quinnocent-Till-Sith

    Quinnocent-Till-Sith Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Perhaps she'd say the exact same thing to an especially hairy man in a similar situation. ;)

    Oh and: "Laugh it up, fuzzball."
     
  17. LightsaberAccident

    LightsaberAccident Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Aug 26, 2013
    Did the whole egalitarian angle ever actually enter into things when they were making the original trilogy? I would be surprised if the protagonists threw around labels like that in the new movies.
     
  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

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    Jul 19, 1999
    To think, she's supposed to be a diplomat.

    He knows he can rip her head off and play basketball with it, any time he likes. She'd never see it coming.
     
  19. The Compeer

    The Compeer Jedi Knight star 2

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    Jun 12, 2013
    Any time people in the EU tout Leia's diplomatic skills, or worse, claim they picked up some conversational trick from watching Leia, I think back to her part in the Black Fleet Trilogy - her conduct was so abysmal, I don't get why people don't complain about it more. Ackbar and Drayson speculate that Nil Spaar is brainwashing her in their bilateral meetings and it actually seems plausible, given what's going on. It's worse when you consider that that was one of the few Bantam stories where Leia actually governs instead of chasing after her kidnapped children yet again. I'd say we're down to just Mon Mothma and Gavrisom as reasonably competent executives.
     
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  20. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    She is also a Skywalker and not to forget she only hours/days before lost her whole planet!
     
  21. Malcolm Reynolds

    Malcolm Reynolds Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 2, 2013

    I could see why that would make you a bit grumpy.
     
  22. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 29, 2012
    But she did keep behaving like that to some extent even years later.
     
  23. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Lost a planet Senator Organa has? How embarrassing... how embarrassing...
     
  24. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 21, 2012
    I don't think Plagueis would teach Palpatine about human racism, since it's not in the Banite Sith culture, and Plagueis himself is a Munn.
     
  25. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Which would go well with it being a common trait on Naboo, and him having picked it up from his father or acquaintances, rather than his Sith Master.

    Plagueis himself is pretty prejudiced- seeing Muuns and humans as the pinnacle of intelligent life, and some others as falling far short of it.