The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by JediTrilobite, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. xm41 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2007
    star 1
    It was great. It answered allot of questions and left room for a ton of speculation and very deep thought. It was also quite a tear jerker at times.

    1. What was/is Kera Thrace/Starbuck?
    2. Was she ever really human?
    3. If human was she alive or dead?
    4. If dead when did that death occur?

    There are also questions that can be ask about Hera.

    The Colonial Humans and skin job Cylons clearly interbreed with the local population of the planet and handed down knowledge of the stars. After a couple hundred generations of interbreeding you would have a population large enough to keep the ball rolling on it?s own but with that scenario alone we loose the importance of Hera. Without Hera?s DNA in the mix the whole thing wouldn?t have worked.

    And just as we wrap up that bunch of questions we open another can of worms. Who says that Hera was to be the only Human/skin job hybrid? It was established that interbreeding between Human/skin jobs was possible given that there was love in the mix. With over 30,000 colonials and even a small number of skin jobs it's inevitable that love would occur somewhere along the line leading to other hybrids. I guess we can explain this explain this away using the fact that the theory of Mitochondrial Eve says there can be more than one. But again, in going with that theory you lose Hera?s importance.

    I guess I think too much.8-}


    And of course the big question. Who or what were head Six and Baltar working with/for?


    Ron
  2. Jek_Windu Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 4
    In the grand scheme of things, yes, Hera's not that important for all the reasons you said. But to those people then, knowing that they had to rebuild but not knowing how, the fact that she existed would have given them all a sense of direction, of hope. Remember, Hera was always meant to be to the first of the new generation, not a one-off anomaly.


    As for the idea that this generation failed in fully breaking the cycle, I'm not so sure. While the human Cylons are doomed without Resurrection, do you really think Cavil would have kept his word? If all he wanted was Resurrection, he would have kept Ellen or had Boomer kidnap an actual Final Five. Cavil was always driven by petty jealousy and self-loathing- I find it very likely that the second he had his hands on Resurrection he would have had the Colony nuke Galactica.
  3. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    BTW- in that scene with oldskool Centurions walking down the right side of the screen, with a couple new-skool Centurions in their ranks, while several new-skool Centurions charge down the left side of the screen...did one of them high five one of the running ones? I swear they did, in a "go kick ass, my shiny brother-YEAH!" kind of way.

    There's your Skynet connection right there- "Up high! Down low! Hah- too slow!" ;)

    Actually, Pegasus probably took a heavier pounding. Remember that they said they couldn't use missles at that close range? So, except for the smaller missles from the raiders, Galactica was just taking rail gun and regular turret fire from about 4-6 emplacements.

    Pegasus, on the other hand, was taking gunfire and missle assaults from four different Basestars, each with almost the same number of emplacements as the colony dock, plus the Raider attacks.

    And she had more speed when she rammed that Basestar than Galactica did when she rammed the colony (but, then, they intended Galactica to still be in one piece afterwards ;) ).
  4. Ultima_1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, at one of the other forums I go to, ever since the end of season 3, they've been calling her Starbuck the White.
  5. Mustafar_66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 5
    What were those things being fired from the Baseship that left the large white tail after them? I thought they were Cylon missiles and it was just the Colonials who couldn't use missiles. Were they exploding shells or something then?

    Regardless, I do think Galactica is a tougher ship all told. I mean, she was still able to fly herself into the Sun under her own power, despite the pounding she took, the metal fatigue and rather comical bucking that she did after she jumped away.

    I loved Pegasus, but was a tough old bird.
  6. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I took those tail-leaving shots to be high powered rail guns.
  7. Kol_Skywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2006
    star 4
    ...one of the characters states after they reach Earth that it has taken a million light years to get there. Let's say that is just a generic number, and it could say be double that. The Andromeda Galaxy is 2.5 million light years away, so it is theoretically possible, given the dialogue, and assuming that it was a rounded generalized figure... the crew of BSG could have come from another galaxy.

    ...the show also depicts the BSG crew arriving at what is our past, at least 150,000 years ago.

    So given these two points, I think it would have been most appropriate for the show to start with some simple text of:

    A LONG TIME AGO, IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY

    :)
  8. Lank_Pavail Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 7
    Eh, allow me to get sentimental and ascribe life-life characteristics to inanimate objects, but I think it's the differences of the two ship's personalities. Pegasus was an angry, vengeful ship. Kinda like her previous commander, Cain. That she would go out in such a fashion, killing a basestar with her guns, another by ramming it at full speed, and a third in her death rattle seems in keeping. Galactica has been and remained until the end a protector. She protected the people within her guts through some of the most insane things likely ever done to a ship like that. Two nuke hits? A heavy Raider ramming into her? Free falling into atmosphere? Being gnawed on by four basestars? And being rammed into the Cylon home base, then surviving (albeit barely) a jump out in the midst of nukes going off nearby? I attribute it to taking on the personality of her commander, Adama. He cared about his people. And so did the ship. And neither of them quit until they were able to lay down their burdens, their tasks done.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I'm not sure about that- we've always seen stars, AFAIK, in the show- traveling between galaxies would mean there'd be stretches where there were no stars- just distant galaxies.

    ...the show also depicts the BSG crew arriving at what is our past, at least 150,000 years ago.

    Or... "THERE ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT LIFE HERE, BEGAN OUT THERE..." ;)
  10. LawJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    Well, that's the point of "you have my word." Cavil could just as easily assume that Galactica would nuke him as soon as they have Hera. We don't know for sure if peace would have been possible, but it damn sure didn't happen here. Personally, I believe that Baltar (superior intellect) got to Cavil, and tapped into some undeveloped spirituality, and convinced him to make that deal.

    As far as keeping Ellen, she made it clear that she didn't have the ability to explain resurrection without the other four. Clearly, Cavil believed her, as he allowed Boomer to sneak her out.

    BTW, I'm really glad this thread hasn't devolved into a basher's nest. While i have complaints about this last season, there is no excuse for the chaos currently happening over at the sci-fi.com board.
  11. Mustafar_66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 5
    Yeah, I like that. Reminds me of some of the last lines of Serenity:

    Mal: It ain't all buttons and charts, little albatross. You know what the first rule of flyin' is? Well, I suppose you do, since you already know what I'm about to say.
    River: I do. But I like to hear you say it.
    Mal: Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. And love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down?tells ya she's hurtin' 'fore she keens?makes her a home.

    Very much like Galactica.
  12. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    (1) I'm not convinced Cavil would have stood by his word. He would have to get out of the immediate situation in the CIC, but I can see him easily breaking his word. And I thought his suicide was great, it was perfectly in character. Moore was originally going to have Tigh throw him off the balcony to his death, but the actor suggested to Moore that it's more in Cavil's character to kill himself, and I agree.

    I think Cavil was agreeing to get the resurrection technology.


    (2)I was thinking about the whole Opera House thing today. Doesn't Caprica even say something like "that's it, we just brought Hera into the CIC?" [face_laugh]

    This is my take on the Opera House:

    "This has all happened before, it will all happen again." I think the last time they went through the cycle, it was on Kobol, and Hera went with Baltar and Six, and the Final Five went off to Earth (13th tribe), and everyone else split off to form the other colonies.

    So the vision was really just a way of getting the important characters at the right moment.

    It makes the most sense to me that way.
  13. Kol_Skywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2006
    star 4
    I don't know why this thought popped into my head whilst watching the end, but after they had landed on Earth, and got rid of their technology ... did anyone else think "what would happen if a Pride of Lions walked over the next hill" ... they would all be stuffed!
  14. Radical_Edward Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2002
    star 3

    Oooh, I like that idea. Perhaps the Baltar and Six in the Opera House on Kobol were the original, physical people that ascended/turned into Head Baltar and Head Six, and the Heads influenced events to the point where it was a near-perfect recreation of the events of their life for a new incarnation of the five involved, so as to ensure the survival of the Hera... which all goes back to the cyclical nature of the show. Maybe. All unanswerable speculation at this point (unless Espenson's comic sheds some light on this)


    A thought from the finale: I liked the subtle stereotype-reversal in the flashbacks, where it's the old folks who go out the club, party, play with strippers, get in trouble, and end up in the gutter (although I could have done without the close-up of Adama power-vomiting on himself) and it was the kids who stayed home, had the quiet dinner party, sipped wine, and discussed civics and values and such. Not many shows would, on a fundamental level, do something like that.

    I've been wondering: The cylons had Hera in their possession for months, all the time between New Caprica and the Algae Planet. Even though they had resurrection at the time, they were already trying to breed. They had in their hands the one thing that they needed to figure out how to make it work, yet they did nothing? Simon wasn't even the slightest bit curious back then? And then they suddenly had to scramble and come up with some hair-brained scheme to get Hera back after they lost the Hub. Gahh!
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    [face_laugh]
  16. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Loved that Adama barf scene...right up there with Starbuck's wee-wee in the men's room (with super-wipe in progress).

    Awesome with the notes of the song being the co-ordinates for Earth; Kara's rebirth and disappearance reminds me of Gandalf, in a way....sent back until her task was completed.

    Peace,

    V-03
  17. xm41 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2007
    star 1
    I loved the moment at the end when Baltar said he knows about farming and started to cry. It shows that he had finally found true redemption.

    Ron
  18. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah. I love the fact that he destroyed the Colonies for love.
  19. xm41 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2007
    star 1
    It's the stupid things people sometimes do for selfish reasons. Kinda the theme of the whole series right up to the end.
    Look at what Galin did to Tory right as they were about to come to peace with Cavil.

    Ron
  20. Espaldapalabras Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    Shouldn't this thread be retitled "The Start of the World?"
  21. LawJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
  22. Chancellor_Ewok Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    They wouldn't have come to peace with Cavil, though. Cavil is a duplicitous bastard. As soon as he'd gotten everything he wanted to know about Resurrection, I think he would have had Galactica nuked.
  23. darth_grievous1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 5
    I know it may be a bit early to ask, but does anyone know about a season 4 soundtrack release? The entire season had a great soundtrack, but the last few episodes had excellent music.
  24. Lank_Pavail Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2002
    star 7
    I'm also not convinced things would have worked out with Cavil. My guess is that he'd have let them go for the moment, then as soon as they had the tech up and running, would've hunted the fleet down.

    As for the Chief's reaction, I can't fault him. Tory committed cold-blooded murder of a woman that the Chief did love. Maybe it wasn't the one he truly wanted (Boomer), but he still did love her. Galen acted from pure rage and betrayal. He wasn't thinking. Saul explicitly stated he'd have done the same thing. I can easily imagine Kara, Lee, Helo, Bill, and most of the rest acting similarly. It's an entirely human reaction.
  25. Jedimarine Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    And yet because it's Tyrol, it does stand out. Yet another chapter in his unresolved pain.

    What's worse, is that their is no resolution to it...no one gets on him about it? He just wanders off to Scotland?

    I smell another cropped element coming on disc.
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