The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by JediTrilobite, Jan 3, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. darth_grievous1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 5
    I can definitely say I would have done the same thing as well. This really helps drive the point home that they Cylons really aren't that different from humans, which I think was an important recurring message throughout the series. We saw glimpses of this in season 1, and it started building more in seasons 2 and 3, and definitely climaxed sometime around the Cylon Civil war in season 4.

    EDIT:
    Jedimarine: I think at that point it didn't really matter. Their asses had just about been toast, and I think Kara jumping them to Earth definitely helped distract people from Tory's murder. Plus, it was incredibly chaotic in the CIC when it went down, so it's entirely possible not everyone took notice and only realized it after the fact what had happened. If you think about it (and this is a bit of a stretch) Tory's murder did get them to a new home...Cavil and company started attacking, they had to get out of their very quickly, so Kara punches in the coordinates and BAM! Earth. Does that excuse Tyrol for what he did? I think not. But as Pavail said earlier, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who wouldn't have done what he did (which still doesn't make it right, of course).
  2. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    I'd be curious to see a scene where he finds out how Hera was recovered...and whether they reveal Boomer's part to him, or Athena ending her.

    ...

    I heard it said that Tyrol is the "everyman" of the show.

    I must be on the "incredibly fortunate" side of the average if that's the case.
  3. Robimus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2007
    star 5
    I loved this entire series, beyond that really. I haven't been in here before because I absolutly was looking to avoid every possible spoiler out there.

    I liked the conclusion, though I don't think they wrapped up Kara's story very well.

    And I wasn't surprised to hear Moore admit that he didn't know who the final five Cylons would be going into the end of season 3. The show seemed to lose some focus for me part way through season 3. It was still good, just not as good as before.

    I'm looking forawrd to checking out Caprica too :D
  4. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    This part really worked for me. I thought one of the most emotionally cutting scenes in the whole episode was the shot of the Chief casually sitting on the ground after the clearing of all the chaos that erupted after he killed Tory. Seemed like such a moment of clarity where he could finally accept everything that happened to him.

    Couple other observations after watching it again:

    Starbuck's resolution is still a mixed bag. While I still wanted more of explanation as to what exactly she was, I'm glad they didn't have her simply hang on to her human form and remain with Lee. That would've been a bit of a cop out if they got together for good primarily because both of their spouses weren't in the equation anymore. Also, I thought the final shot of Lee by himself was another great, somber moment in a similar manner to the shot of the Chief. It's ironic that Lee - the great leader prototype who was (probably deservedly) handed positions as the CAG, Pegasus commander, and president of the colonies - is suddenly alone after reaching the journey's end.

    Back to Kara, though, I thought there definitely should've been a scene of closure with Leoben. Given that at various time throughout the series he was just as important to her character as Anders or Lee, seems like it was a missed opportunity to leave the relationship dangling after Leoben awkwardly ran away from her at the beginning of 4.5.
  5. darth_grievous1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 5
    If I recall correctly, Katee Sackhoff said in an interview she wasn't very satisfied with how they wrapped up her story, either. Still, I like the way it ended. Did anyone else catch Sam's "I'll see you on the other side" right when Kara left? It seems to me that after he "Hybridized" (huh, that apparently is a word) he must have been clued in somehow to Kara's 'angelic' nature, even before she was.

    Also, Kara did fulfill her purpose of 'leading humanity to its end', if you want to play with semantics a bit. She brought them to the end of their journey. Whether or not she was a 'harbinger of death' depends on if you take the title literally, or if there is a deeper meaning to it than I'm aware of.

    In regards to Leoben, I think it would have ruined the surprise of Kara disappearing like she did. We knew it was coming when she mentioned it to Lee, but at the time, there simply wasn't enough time to process that along with Lee's plans for his future. If she had said goodbye to Leoben, not only would it have dragged her leaving out more, but it would have made more time for people to think about "how is she going to leave?" that I'm sure more than a few people would have been disappointed by her disappearing like she did (more than there are now, at any rate).
  6. Kol_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2006
    star 4
    When Galactica reached the other Earth, the Earth that was nuked ... I am sure that I read somewhere, perhaps even here, that someone spotted a destroyed Brooklyn Bridge.

    On the Earth that the Galactica settled on, obviously 150,000 years in the future, we are shown New York City.

    How can two planets evolve EXACTLY the same; same city, etc.

    Perhaps when Kara jumped the Galactica, it went through the naked singularity, sending them back through time?

    That would then explain the two Earth's ... they are one and the same!
  7. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    I didn't really like Cavil's death. His suicide felt like a cop-out, but I LOVED Tyrol killing Tory. I had totally forgotten that she murdured Cally and when she started going on about learning everything about everyone else, I thought that maybe she had collaborated with the Cylons on New Caprica, until I saw her in the launch tube with Cally. Then light bulb went off I was like "I wonder what he'll do." Then he promptly snaps her neck.

    I'm inclined to agree with darth_grevious regarding Starbuck and Leoben. I don't think it was necessary to for Starbuck to say goodbye to him, considering that she tortured him and killed him five time on New Capric, not to mention the fact that he kind of acted like her stalker on more than one occaision. All in all it was a pretty creepy relationship.

    I also just had a thought about Starbuck's ascension at the end of the episode. Towards the end of Season 1, Roslin says that everyone has a part to play. The fact that Starbuck disappeared, ascended or whatever you want to call it, makes me wonder if she will return, when the cycle begins again, with this time to play a different role.
  8. xm41 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2007
    star 1
    Nobody ever said it was NYC. It certainly looked like it could be but it was still ambiguous enough to be another just city by the water. People went with their imagination.

    If Galactica had jumped back in time (which when watching at first I thought might be the case but quickly ruled it out) than how did the fleet join them at Earth? The time trick could have resolved many parts of the series but it would have been a cop out. I think RM and the writers recognized that.

    Ron
  9. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    To clarify, by closing out the Kara/Leoben storyline I don't mean there should have been a heartfelt goodbye scene, or even any type of goodbye scene. How this closure could've came about, well, I'm not really sure. Just seems like there was enough history between the two characters to warrant some type of interaction at or near the end of it all. Indeed, the season one episode where she tortures him and then watches his execution was one of the best moments of the entire series for me. I definitely would've preferred a final scene between the two over Tigh and Ellen in the strip club or Laura's one-night stand. Even the Lee/Starbuck flashbacks seemed to drag on a bit too long for me. I actually liked how those scenes played out in the first part of the finale where we transitioned from their initial meeting to Lee drunkenly returning home more so than going back and blatantly spelling out the abruptly interrupted drunk hook-up.
  10. darth_grievous1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure more than a few of the captains would have said "Frak this" upon being told to..."Jump here, fly into the black hole and perform another jump." Besides, there was no singularity near Earth, and Hoshi had said that a raptor had jumped back with coordinates for the fleet.
  11. xm41 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2007
    star 1
    When it comes out on DVD I think they should include a version of Daybreak parts 1 & 2 as one 3hr long movie including the extra sceens.

    Ron
  12. Kol_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2006
    star 4
    How are all the Galactica alcoholics, ie: Adama and Tigh going to cope without booze? It sure will be one long withdrawal process! :) Sure, they will plant malt, barley, corn, etc. crops and start again ... but that could take years!

    Same with Baltar without tobacco.

    And I can't honestly imagine the fleet really mixing with the natives. They are primitive, dirty, unintelligent people ... bordering on Neanderthal. It would be akin to asking a person today to sleep with a monkey IMHO.
  13. darth_grievous1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 5
    I'd be more concerned about Doc Cottle without tobacco than Baltar ;)
  14. xm41 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2007
    star 1
    I hope they brought the stills with them cause it?s gonna take allot of booze to get the Colonials drunk enough to sleep with the natives. Well maybe not Baltar. [face_laugh]

    Ron
  15. xm41 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2007
    star 1
    At this piont if Cottle needs more tobacco all he would have to do is open a vein.

    Ron
  16. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 4
    haha, they really need to make Battlestar Galactica: Farm Life so we get all the remaining questions answered. I bet the Sci Fi channel, oops, I mean SyFy channel, would green light at least a TV movie if Ron Moore agrees to randomly insert some CG dinosaurs into the mix.

  17. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I think Chief's state under that distinction was lost or at least significantly altered once they Cyloned him. Until then, outside of drunken pummeling of Cally, he was sort of the anchor that people rallied around or relied upon to get things moving right. He didn't let events around him scare him into inactivity, etc.

    (as an aside, though it sadly went nowhere, my favorite Tyrol line is still "Now your ass belongs to me." after they recover Starbuck's stolen Raider. [face_laugh])

    I am reminded of a comment Aaron Douglas made 2 or 3 years ago about how either someone pointed out to him or he came to realize that, no matter what he does after BSG, he'll always be Chief Tyrol to people, and how he was happy with that. I don't think his darker turn in the last half of the show changes that, even if he's less likeable by the end after he;s gone Taxi Driver. He's still The Chief.


    And, seriously- someone needs to make an animated gif of that Centurion high-five! :D
  18. Kol_Skywalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2006
    star 4
    I'm going to have to re-watch the finale just to see that scene again. I'm sure I thought something like that happened as well.

    Still, I had the thought that the Cylons might get pi**ed off yet again being cannon fodder ... after all, they were made to go first ahead of Lee Adama and co.
  19. Sinrebirth SWC and EUC Forum Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 7
    Question is...

    Is the cycle actually over? The suggestion is that it isn't - so... did the Chief just doom humanity? I can't decide between that concept and the fact that Cavil would probably betray them two minutes after receiving resurrection. It does bug me, a little.

    Otherwise - great episode. If I criticise the ending I end up criticising these 'cycle' series, such as Star Wars and Matrix, and I simply can't do it. :p
  20. Jek_Windu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 4
    I think that was the point- you just don't know. You have to make a leap of faith.
  21. Dawud786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2006
    star 4
    Yeah, just watched that. It's not a high-five. It's a new model Centurion holding up his right arm reading his guns and another one comes running past him and brushes his arm. There's no high-five.
  22. JediMasterGuff Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 5
    Sorry chaps, it's not a high-five :(

    Just double checked, the Centurian who is marching forward raises his arm, then the Centurian who is running past him shoulder-barges him. He doesn't raise his hand at all.

    Unless you were thinking of another part?
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    No that's probably it. Darn- that was just a random enough moment to be uber-awesome.
  24. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    It was more of a fist bump IMO.
  25. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Cavil desperately needed Hera, and so went about as far behind enemy lines as you could go. Both sides had a good-faith agreement in principle, which would have been carried out successfully if Tory hadn't gone off on a power trip way back when, and flushed Cally out that airlock. I loved that that action finally had consequences when it mattered most. She committed an evil act, and was denied paradise as a result. Once things went south, Cavil knew he was done for even if the Cylons managed to carry the day. Rather than await whatever horrific fate was in store for him, he decided to just end it.

    It makes sense to me. Cavil couldn't have gone to Earth, because his anger and bitterness would have ensured that the cycle of war and genocide would continue. His death was meant to be as a prerequisite for finding the new Earth. I think the "Team Cavil" Cylons' hopes for Hera were largely in vain, as opposed to Team Natalie's. They were essentially trying to find a scientific explanation for a metaphysical occurrence.


    Although Roslin and Boomer did get left behind in the Opera House vision, but that only applied to reality insomuch as they didn't make it into the CIC in time to stop the major key events from unfolding. I don't think the dream was necessarily implying that they'd never see Hera again, as some folks have suggested.


    She was born and raised as a human being. Up until her death in "Maelstrom," that was 100 percent the case. Had she not died then, she probably would have had a long and tumultuous life with Lee on Earth. But she was deemed by whatever higher power has been manipulating events from the beginning to be too important to the cause to simply walk off the stage forever without playing one final role.

    Thus, she was brought back to complete her destiny. But the whole time, she was on borrowed time. Upon arriving at Earth, she'd completed her mission -- essentially leading humanity to salvation -- and ascended to the other side.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.