The End of the World: The New Battlestar Galactica (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by JediTrilobite, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Agreed.

    Like I said earlier, it reminds me of Gandalf being sent back by the Valar to see to it that the Ring was destroyed. Once that happened, he returned to Valinor, where he came from. He no longer had a place in Middle Earth; similarly, once Kara led the human race to their new home, her purpose was completed, and she "crossed back over".

    They seem similar to me, somehow.

    Peace,

    V-03
  2. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    Except that's not the case...

    She died on "Earth" (In this case, the 13th "Cylon" Colony.)

    Thus, her "humanity" is suspect throughout the series, as nothing established when that took place, nor the clear explanation of her survival from the "maelstrom" episode...nor any connection between the two cases of "death".

    Vaderize03's comment on Gandalf goes even a step further...as Gandalf was not human in LOTR...And though he died at Mora, there is no reason to expect the rules of death were ever going to apply to him other then the simple assumptions of all mortal creatures who cannot fathom the next plane.

    "Who was Kara Thrace?" cannot be capsulized into a "section" of the series. And moreover to claim, "oh, she was just like everyone else before ..." really makes it seem like the series was episodic, when what they did with this whole notion was make her "destiny" story so much more.

    It was her destiny to be intimately close with the Adama Family...it kept her in the heart of the mission of humanity...it's not like fate chose Apollo's girlfriend by chance...it's a fascinating web if you look at it from square one with Kara being something unique.
  3. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    Still not sure how Kara got her brand-spankin'-new Viper. ;)

    God is a mechanic, apparently.
  4. Ultima_1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    A Viper is much less complicated than a human is. If He/It was capable of making a brand new Kara Thrace to replace Charbuck, then making a Viper should be a piece of cake.
  5. LawJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2009
    star 4
    The difference to me is that TPTB wanted Kara to die in the first place. Her initial death was directly connected to her eventual return. Somehow, we have to reconcile the idea that TPTB found it easier to kill and reboot her than to just give her a Head character to direct her on the way.
  6. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Some more thoughts:

    As I said, I loved the first hour. It DID strain my credibility-meter a little to see the Cylon colony so grossly understaffed that it could be overrun by, at most, two dozen Colonial soldiers. We have seen multiple Basestars together throughout numerous points in the series, and it's hard to believe that Cavil could not have pulled together enough materiel to hold off the Colonials. Then again, perhaps too large a majority of the Centurions were with the Cylon Rebels. Did we ever see anything to the effect of Cavil having very few Centurions as a result of the civil war? (Maybe that's why he had to pull in the reserve, 1970s-model Centurions.)

    But as many have said, it was the most effective space-porn ever. The second hour was one of those endings that you never expected, yet makes complete sense in retrospect. The moment I saw that shot of Africa, there was both extreme surprise and complete agreement: There was no other way this could have ended, not without rendering the many connections completely meaningless. We had always painted them as being our descendants; it's apropos that they turned out to be our ancestors.

    Does the late Pleistocene setting of the ending create more problems than the Von Daniken concepts of the original series? They have to explain why our ancients don't have the exact same beliefs as the Colonials or the Cylons, which is easy enough to get around, that things just got a little mixed up as the centuries went by. But our ancients were somewhat nasty people, slaughterers and slave-drivers, which means the Colonials had little success in passing on any kind of lessons to their children.

    Having them show up in the late Pleistocene -- far enough back for every trace of them to disappear -- it's depressing in the sense that the survivors and everything they struggled for was seemingly forgotten. But it validates their decision in the sense that they were successful at at least delaying the cycle, which was better than their predecessors managed. (Whether it makes sense that the squabbling, backstabbing Colonials we've known and loved/hated these past five years would plausibly make that decision is a different question.)

    And regardless, their culture did survive and reemerge -- we have blazers and strip clubs and Air Force One today. That's one of the ideas of this series, that art and culture just happen because the universe needs them to happen. So "Watchtower" can spontaneously fall into Kara's father's head, and then can reemerge in Bob Dylan's head (which is a debatable idea; I understand that some artists don't understand where their inspiration comes from, but taking that idea to an extreme doesn't give Dylan or any other artist much credit for what they come up with).

    Thinking about it further, "God"'s actions are not obviously intended to produce a different result. Had he allowed the Final Five to arrive a few years later or earlier (or had he simply not bothered them at all), things might have gone better for the Colonials. We don't know how the history and technology of Kobol were lost, but if "God" had prevented that loss (assuming he didn't actively cause it) things also would probably have gone better for the Colonials.


  7. Jedimarine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 5
    and I didn't mean to insinuate that Kara was not ever human...I just would put forward that we don't know "when" she was human...at least in terms of her original life.

    I believe Kara to be as much flesh and blood thoughout the series as anyone...but the Kara we met in the miniseries "is" the same one who vanished on that hillside in the finale...she wasn't "ascended" or altered in the series...and that is the point of finding the body on earth...it shows that the Kara Thrace who reappeared after being blown up was the same...we just don't have any idea "what" that is...

    is she human...absolutely...but then some...whatever was at work had a grasp of things beyond human understanding...you can start getting into the notion of one spirit and many shells, or a nonlinear existence...timetravel was the favorite at one point...but what we cannot say is that Kara Thrace was born ordinary and became extraordinary...the story provides for a destiny that transcends a meager human lifetime.
  8. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
  9. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
  10. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Well that sucks.

    Peace to her,

    V-03
  11. Chancellor_Ewok Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 6
    So say we all. :(
  12. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    So why hasn't there been any discussion on the BSG: The Final Five comic series?

    [image=http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/a/a2/FinalFive1.jpg] [image=http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/5/52/FinalFive2.jpg] [image=http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/b/b0/FinalFive3.jpg] [image=http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/7/73/FinalFive4.jpg]

    I mean, holy crap, you get entire issues devoted to the Thirteenth Tribe's exodus from Kobol, and life on Cylon Earth before the nuclear holocaust (all RDM-approved and canonical), but the big, gigantic bombshell revelation:

    The Thirteenth Tribe were all originally humans who downloaded into mechanical "skinjob" Cylon bodies on Kobol via Resurrection technology, in an attempt to live forever. Saul Tigh's ancestor, Michael, was one of these humans.

    Other huge stuff that's revealed in the series:

    • The Quorum of Twelve on Kobol was about to be expanded into the Quorum of Thirteen, which was to encompass/include the new human Resurrectees (not yet called "Cylons"), who were considered to be almost pariahs and outcasts amongst Kobolese society there. We see planet-wide riots, including in the capital city.

    • The Prophet Pythia was originally locked up in an insane asylum on Kobol, and calls for the destruction of the government, à la Tom Zarek some 4,000 years later. She is declared an enemy of the state, and sentenced to death.

    • Also, Pythia is damn hawt.

    • This splintering of Kobol's society (and the eventual planetary collapse/destruction) is all based around the unpopular "Thirteenth Tribe," their "unholy" Resurrection tech, their atheistic ways, and Pythia's status as a wannabe-martyr.

    • The holy temple guards (humans!) wear armor EXTREMELY evocative of the later Cylon Centurions. Now we know where the Earth Cylons and the Colonials (including Daniel Greystone) both received their design "inspirations" from -- their mutual ancestors on Kobol, four millennia earlier.

    • Head Six appears in the story, and is revealed to be a goddess, one of the Lords of Kobol (a term which rankles the divine deities, incidentally). We also see another of her kind at one point, the goddess Aurora.

    • The Human Resurrectee fleet that escapes the destruction of Kobol are comprised entirely of relativistic, sub-FTL ships, which means that millennia pass on Kobol, while it only takes the Thirteenth Tribe mere months from their point of view to reach the globular cluster (containing the Algae Planet), and later, Earth.

    • John Cavil becomes a major figure in the discovery of the Algae Planet, and in the plotting of the course to Earth.

    • Michael Tigh is the one responsible for leaving the various beacons -- including the infected one seen in the TV series -- which doesn't sit too well with Cavil.

    • An ancestor of Baltar initially journeys with the Thirteenth Tribe to Earth, but is sent back to Kobol bearing the Books of Pythia, as well as the stellar location of Earth and its local constellations (thus the map room seen in the TV series).

    • The goddess Aurora assumes the form of the now-dead Pythia, killed during the escape from Kobol, and leads the Cylons to Earth. She marries Michael Tigh.

    • On Earth, 2,000 years later (though only a century since the Kobol exodus, from the Tribe's perspective), Saul Tigh -- the son of a goddess! -- nearly becomes leader of the Thirteenth Tribe after his father Michael's death, but he refuses, wanting to hold elections instead. He's still every bit as big a porch-climbing alcoholic millennia earlier as we'll later see on the TV series. Massive civil unrest is building on Earth amongst the Centurion population, and we see Galen Tyrol, Tory Foster, and Samuel Anders working in Ellen Cavil (Tigh's) lab, trying to reinvent Resurrection technology. Tory works as a lab assistant, and we get to see small pieces of her and Tyrol's romanti
  13. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Some leaked script pages from BSG: The Plan revealed a few interesting new things, plus one real, major shocker:

    Diana Seelix and Simon (Cylon model Number Four) evidently hooked up and had a baby together during the months leading up to the Cylon holocaust.

    Holy frak. :eek: If this is true...

    Also, in a rather lengthy interview with G4, Edward James Olmos mentions that he was informed by Universal that there will be more BSG films if The Plan sells 375,000 copies or more on DVD/Blu-Ray. He's also preparing to direct an episode of Caprica this season; RDM is helming the one that was shooting this past week, guest-starring Peter Wingfield.
  14. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    [image=http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/futs22/NationalGeographic_Raptor_01_01.jpg]
  15. JEDI-SOLO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 5
    What character was Elosha? The link isn't working for me.
  16. darth_grievous1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 5
    Elosha was the priest who advised Roslin throughout her Presidency. Also, in season 4, Roslin had visions with...umm..."Head/Angel" Elosha when the rebel baseship was jumping around.
  17. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
  18. Jedi_Johnson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 5
    Holy Frak, that's awesome! Did you make that?
  19. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
  20. Ultima_1 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I prefer the "Coffee Chain Vanishes" one :p
  21. Jedi_Johnson Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2002
    star 5
    So it seems that Bryan Singer has signed on to make a new Battlestar Galactica movie. Supposedly this one is going to be a remake of the original series...

    Why the hell do they feel the need to remake the show again so soon after the much more loved BSG has ended? This idea of making a new BSG movie just reeks of greed and trying to cash in fans who want more BSG... but the good kind of BSG.
  22. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    I'm in favor of new versions of BSG that have a different take and tone on the material, but I agree this is way too soon after Moore's BSG.
  23. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Wait, the movie is another remake? Huh, well I just lost all interest. Doesn't really matter though, Singer hasn't made a decent movie since X-Men 2.
  24. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Have to disagree with that -- Valkyrie was quite well made, and shows off Singer's directorial chops. It was effectively the "Superman Returns Recovery Project." Christian Berkel in particular was outstanding in that film.

    And looks like it's officially official, according to Variety.

    He's reportedly set to make $10 million for directing. But agreed -- this is WAY too freaking soon, even if it's the Glen Larceny-version. This franchise is still Moore's baby, as far as the general public (and more importantly, the critics) are concerned. Besides, Singer and DeSanto's script was very similar to what happened in Season 2/Season 3 of the RDM version: The Colonials give up their quest to find Earth, they settle down on a new world (à la New Caprica), go all dissolute and retrogressive, and then...boom. The Cylons come a-knockin'.

    Like I said -- way too early to even attempt something like this, and how much better could it possibly be than Moore's take on the material? Singer just needs to find another original project to tackle, one that will actually challenge him directorially, and not take on the sloppy-seconds of something that's been already executed as close to perfection as we'll likely see in the near future.
  25. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Eric Chu, conceptual artist for both Ronald Moore and Bryan Singer's BSG reboot versions, recently revealed concept art from the Singer/Tom DeSanto attempt, circa 2000:

    [image=http://www.cinemaspy.com/img/user/SINGER%20DESANTO%20BSG%20VIPER.jpg]

    [image=http://www.cinemaspy.com/img/user/GALACTICA%20OVER%20COLONIES.jpg]

    [image=http://www.cinemaspy.com/img/user/DESTRUCTION%20OF%20CAPRICA.jpg]

    [image=http://www.cinemaspy.com/img/user/CYLON%20RAIDER%20IN%20FLIGHT.jpg]

    [image=http://www.cinemaspy.com/img/user/BOXEY%27S%20QUEEN%20DAGGIT.jpg]

    Chu designed most of the tech and spaceships for the RDM series (including the redesigned Galactica schematics), but no telling yet if any of this will make it into Singer's new feature film incarnation.
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