The entire saga never real gave us the views and feelings of the general populace in the galaxy

When I think of the whole of the entire Star Wars movies saga, one thing I never really felt was presented were the thoughts, feelings and views of the general populace. We actually never really got to see and hear much from the people under the rule of the Republic in the PT and the Empire in the OT.

One example from the PT is that of the invasion and blockade of Naboo. We never got to see nor feel the pain, suffering and dying of the people of Naboo.

Also in the PT, once the Clone Wars began, we never got to see how the war was affecting the peoples of those planets that were affected by the war.

In the OT, we never got to really see how the Empire was affecting systems and planets under its rule by the Emperor. We saw the people of the planets celebrating at the end of the OT; however we never really got to see nor feel how tyranncal the rule of the Empire was.

In reference to the Jedi, it has always been said that respect and honor for the Jedi Knights changed, obviously because in the end they were viewed as traitors. But by the end of ROTS and the beginning of ANH, this supposed disdain and disrespect for the Jedi Knights was not really felt. In ANH, the Rebels seem to honor the Jedi to some degree with their recognition of the Force. Yes some of the Imperials spoke of that ancient religion, and Tarkin said thei light had gone out in the galaxy, but it was not a feeling or talk that they were traitors, especially from the general populace which was not touched upon, except if you want to count Han Solo's comments, saying "Hokey religions and ancient weapons"! But not even he spoke of the Jedi as traitors.

Lastly, these may not have been good examples of what I am trying to convey,; nevertheless I think throughout the saga we never really got as a whole the perspective of the general populace in the OT and the PT regarding the major events that occurred in each trilogy

Darth Sin!

 

That's probably true. In a way it's almost like a textbook account of the important people and events that shaped history. But also for the films I don't think it's entirely necessary because the audience is supposed to be focusing on the individual characters and we can assume how the general populace must feel based on what is said in the movie and based on what we are supposed to view as a given right and wrong - democracy good, empire bad.

I agree that in TPM we should have seen and sympathsized more with Naboo's suffering, but that's because the invasion was supposed to be the underlying plot to the whole movie, and it would make everything more urgent and dramatic if we actually saw why it was so necessary to save Naboo. I think this was just a poor decision visually because I feel it's obvious that an audience should see, not be told, especially when the whole premise of the plot relies upon it.

However I think Alderaan being blown up is enough of an example of how the Empire was tyrannical. I guess even here, just a quick shot of some personal suffering maybe would have added to the tragedy, but honestly I don't know if that is necessary for the film. At least within the context of ANH alone, Alderaan is kind of like a who cares thing. It's an example of why the Empire is evil and why the Death Star should be destroyed but did anyone really feel that bad about Alderaan when they saw the movie? Probably not. Again, it's just a straightforward example. Adding more to this is not necessary, honestly. We know the Empire is evil, and the focus is on the characters who represent good. The general populace doesn't matter too much. We figure they must not be too happy if they are living in fear of being blown up by their government. I don't think it needs to go further than that, for the movie to work.

I think Naboo is different though, because unlike Alderaan, it IS the plot of the movie. Alderann was more of a minor point.

 

In ANH we get to see what life under the Empire is like for a farmer on a distant system--the portrayal is that they don't like the Empire but seem to live a generally free life, that is until they are executed for harboring traitors. We also get a bit more of a feel for how things work in the universe with Han, where the Empire seems to function for him not all that much different from the way the Republic would except more aggressive and merciless in its law enforcement, and in Cloud City where we see a bit of fascism as the Empire seizes control of the city when it is learned that the city administrator harboured traitors.

So it seems life under the Empire is not all that bad unless you cross them and engage in Rebel-related actions. As far as characters go i think we get a much better feel for what life is like for the average person in the OT than in the PT, where we all sorts of bustling sideline activity but never get to meet any of them simply because of the nature of the story. As far as the relation of the people to the government we know that the Republic is a semi-utopian society and things seem completely uneventful for average citizens like Dex--they vote in the elections, pay their taxes and go about their lives as far as we know. We keep being "informed" through Dooku and publicity materials that the Republic is supposedly corrupt but we never really see it or hear about normal citizens views on the matter. I mean the prospect of a civil-war erupting on a system of government which controlls billions upon trillions of people is a bit of a major and catastrophic event. Everything seems honky-dori though, even to government people like the Jedi and the senators, who all talk about the event with a sort of detached hypotheticalness, with the exception of padme.

 

Good thread.

Indeed. The real narrator is Artoo who Lucas has shown us was intimately involved with the four Skywalkers -- Anakin, Padme, Luke and Leia. It is their story first and foremost. But through their story, and only through their story, we see how the galaxy once was, what it grew into and what it finished up being.

There are a lot of subtle or brief indicators of how the people of the GFFA felt at any given time; sometimes, we see some ordinary citizens roving around; sometimes, their plight is represented by speaking characters. For an example of the former, we see citizens happily going about their lives in the midst of a galactic war on Coruscant in ROTS (e.g. the opera house scene has patrons happily milling around as if nothing matters), for from the perspective of an ordinary citizen on Coruscant, Palpatine has everything under control (even if he was kidnapped). For an example of the latter, we hear Han confirming with Obi Wan that evading the Empire "is the real trick" in ANH, and later in TESB, he asks Lando, moments before he realises he's been betrayed, if he's worried about the Empire discovering his operation and shutting him down. I think the phrase, "out of sight, out of mind," largely applies to your average citizen in Star Wars, and indeed the real world -- if people do not feel directly threatened by something, even if great injustices are happening all around them, they're not inclined to worry or do much about them.

Yes. This is one of several problems with TPM, I think -- we do indeed need to see the suffering. We see some of the effects of invasion, such as when the foliage is cut down, or when Padme and her advisors are marched away, but no one actually fights or dies until a battle is consciously mounted; there are no struggles on behalf of the populace or even any damage done to architecure and infrastructure. I realise that Lucas wanted to show how easy it was for the Trade Federation to invade a planet with no real defences and a massive cultural rift, but everything plays out very mechanically, with no real sense of threat or menace.

 

Yes. This is one of several problems with TPM, I think -- we do indeed need to see the suffering.

Since the real story is about the Skywalkers and Padme had escaped from Naboo before she could experience the suffering of other Nabooans, I don't see how showing the suffering on Naboo was going to help the story.

 

By making us care about the Naboos plight, thus increasing drama and tension and putting emphasis on actually getting back there and saving the people, which creates suspense. As it stands we care nothing for them and there is no dramatic tension regarding getting off Tatooine.

 

I disagree. The saga is basically about the Skywalker family and those close to them. If you wanted to see suffering on Naboo, then Padme would have to remain on the planet. And this scenario would have never given her a chance to meet Anakin on Tatooine - which set the stage for the Skywalker family's saga.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. If you're going to complain about the lack of suffering shown on Naboo, you might as well complain about the suffering experienced by the Empire's citizens in the OT. And we didn't see much of that, either.

When you're writing a story, you should know where or whom the focus is going to be centered upon. The story simply cannot be all over the map.

 

Actually, not seeing the alleged suffering on Naboo raises many questions, and it seems Lucas is much more interested in those questions than actual answers for them. Without any proof of the "catastrophic" death toll caused by the Federation, the Senate can't move decisively against them until a commitee is sent to ascertain the truth. Think about this in relation to modern politics-- How many times have we heard allegations against countries which turn out to be false? An obvious example here is the notorious WMD's, or lack therof, in Iraq. The US invaded anyway, for reasons which turned out to be false. During the writing of TPM people were often complaining about how the UN insisted upon sending weapon inspectors to check and see if Hussein was actually building any weapons. After it turned out that he wasn't, and that we'd caused the deaths of scores of innocents anyway, giving into the demands of commitees made a whole lot more sense.

Lucas' point here is that while the bureaucratic procedures of modern day democratic republican politics are slow, meandering and oftentimes decadent, it's usually better to at least sit back and think about the consequences of spontaneous action, no matter how much time is wasted, than just jumping in, guns blazing.

 

Is it, though?

He portrays Valorum as weak and feeble, under the thumb of his advisors, and unable to stand and make assured decisions on his own.

Though he also portrays Padme as somewhat naive and impatient for voting Valorum out and allowing Palpatine in.

I guess it cuts both ways.

 

Now that's what I call fair and balanced.

 

There's actually yet another irony at work here:

Padme becomes so determined to fight that she votes in a guy who can orchestrate war like no other. Palpatine is a character who presents other characters with enticing candy and must let them decide to grab it or not. Maybe the correct course of action would have been for Padme to go back to Naboo, wage her fight and return with evidence? Voting Valorum out, and giving Palpatine his shot, was not needed -- certainly not at that instant.

 

True, But to be fair to the gal, she hadn't thought of that plan of her's until Jar Jar piped up. And people say he served no purpose! I mean come on! Jar Jar was the architect of every war we see in the PT!

 

That's true, Shaitan, man.

 

[Maybe the correct course of action would have been for Padme to go back to Naboo, wage her fight and return with evidence? Voting Valorum out, and giving Palpatine his shot, was not needed -- certainly not at that instant.]

That's what happens when you vote in a 12-13 year old queen.

Getting back to topic, it would have been nice to have seen more crowd reaction shots ie. cheering, when Anakin and Obi-wan return with the rescued chancellor, and having everyone making a fuss.

Nubians being dragged from their homes by battle droids during the invasion of Naboo.

The look of dread on the ordinary populace's face as star destroyers, like silhouetted sharks in the night, fly overhead and ready for war.

The whispers of local residents when they get a rare look at a jedi walking down the street.

Residents watching the battle of Coruscant occuring in the skies overhead.

Residents cheering, hoping that the ship on fire, with their beloved chancellor, lands safely.

Looks of curiosity, animosity from locals when Anakin, dressed as a jedi, returns to Mos Espa.

Garrisons of clonetroopers making their presence known on the streets of Coruscant, with people feeling slightly uneasy.

Messages from the chancellor on giant screens, addressing the public. Messages of propaganda.

Seeing the Palpatine statue and crowd shots.


Just small five second to show (the swinging) public opinion and zeitgeist of the times.

 

Personally, I think enough is shown for the story to work. We can see what the anatgonists do the protagonists and through this can see how evil their regime is.

We do hear whas going on on Naboo. But then the thing is that the films don't take place in a time where we would see the oppression really take place. For example, ROTS ends just as the Empire is created. ANH begins after the Empire has been around for twently years. I'd guess that within this time is when we would have really seen the persecution. Come ANH the people are just completely oppressed and ruled by fear. The only time we see the Empire invade another system/population is in ESB on Bespon. And I think the reaction of the people on Bespin says it all really.

But then I think...and hope...there will be a lot more of this kind of stuff in the TV series...

 

That's true. Good point! Star Wars is just the heroes: not anyone else. I don't know how much it would effect the movies, but it would make them sadder, like showing all of the ten year old boys getting taken away from their familes to go to battle did in The Two Towers. And with all of the plot twists in these movies you'd expect the public to be curious. Oh look a hundred clonetroopers and a Sith attacking the Jedi Temple. Hey look a one-armed Jedi falling from a window.

 

There is no television or advertisments in SW compared with (for example) Blade Runner. Even in PT, where it is more striking. Isn't it strange too? TV is sign of life in civilised parts of the world...

 

Very interesting point - in the novellization of "ROTS" there is a holonet mentioned which informs the people on Coruscant about all the heroic deeds of Anakin and Obi-Wan and which makes Anakin "the hero with no fear". But in the movies this holonet isn't present. I don't know why.

 

The holonet is featured on a spin-off of the official site: http://www.holonetnews.com/56/news/ ... if you haven't yet seen it, check it out, it's fun to read.

 

@mandragora: Great link! Thanks! I didn't know that the 'Bild-Zeitung' has a subsidiary in the GFFA.