A/V The EPISODE IX - Rise of Skywalker - Thread - Untagged Spoilers Allowed!

For me TLJ really did a number on those characters too!

Which bit did you have in mind?

The new books we have are, well OK - only been Last Shot, hopefully Thrawn: Alliances will be better. The comics are still variable but doing pretty good overall. There's a new animation series in-bound and I've still to see the Rebels S4.

So, away from the unholy mess that are the films, it's doing well enough.

 

Apparently that's a "no" then.

 

I was trying to give you a genuine answer!

 

And, unfortunately, it's the answer I expected. I could easily see someone posting about the things you described as good in the same way you mentioned the movies. This fandom just isn't fun to be apart of anymore. That much is clear to me.

 

Depends on who you talk to and what about. For myself I now have a general rule of trying to avoid TLJ conversations - which is difficult to stick to 100% as it's still, well, almost everywhere.

For myself, the multimedia aspect is one of SW' best elements and arguably, for anyone who loves the ST, there's a whole lot of good material for them, especially where the origins of the First Order are concerned.

And if you liked TLJ, the novelisation is a must. I didn't like TLJ, but found a good few things to like in the novel I never expected. Plus there's Canto Bight - a great little short story collection.

I'll admit to a certain scepticism about the state of fandom, I have thought it hasn't been as bad as this in a long, long time, but in hindsight 1999-2005 had the PT wars raging the whole time. Then, as now, the nature of Lit having more material to draw on tended to benefit the conversations. Ultimately message boards / internet discussions have one thing in common with gambling - the tagline "when the fun stops.... stop"

 

I like it. But even if I didn't, you do you. Like what you like. No one can take what you enjoy away from you. (They can go on and on about why what you like or don't like sucks or doesn't suck, even when it's completely off topic, but you don't have to read it.)

Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk

 

There's a quote from JJ Abrams that Force Awaken is "about a girl who realizes one day that she lives in Star Wars" and there are a lot of themes of living up to legacy throughout the ST, and how it was fragile to hold ontop, so I think there is definitely a unified theme of the next generation trying to live up to the ideals and legends (and their human frailties in reality) and accomplishments of who came before. Retroactively, the OT after the PT became redeeming the sins of the past. The ST is less about the sins of the past than how hard it is to hold onto what they accomplished.

 

I for one am happy that we didn't get the Big 3 back together again, it lets ROTJ retain some vitality that it would immediately lose by having a sequel.

I'm also still amused at how literally people read the treatment of Han and Luke. Yes, Han's demise is tragic but his influence on the shape of things to come is bigger than it ever was in the OT. Similarly I've never understood how anyone can read Luke's actions in TLJ as cowardice; the orthodoxy of what he was taught by two hugely flawed teachers has been exposed for his weakness, and he's the only one who has the courage to question that orthodoxy. And to question whether his presence is what causes the problem rather than pointing the finger at everyone else. To me that's astonishing self-awareness for a fictional character and astonishingly brave. I've always liked Luke, but TLJ made me genuinely love him as a character for the first time.

I think there's something to be said though for it to continue being about how people interpret the past and get it wrong by virtue of missing context. Like Poe trying to be Luke blowing up the dreadnought and replicating the Starkiller success or Rey trying to reform Ben, etc. It's why I think there's an opportunity for Maz to become an actual character and play a role.

 

Yah, I'm pretty interested in how Abrams is going to handle Kylo. Dude got over a lot of his issues, and I'd say his obsession in the past, from TFA in TLJ. I don't think he'd even want to rock the mask anymore. But will Abrams want to keep Kylo at his level he was in TFA?

Actually, I do think Kylo for the first half of TFA is kind of endearingly snarky, which he sorta lost in TLJ but you have to consider where he is in that moment post Han (and as far as he knows, Leia, murder). Not much time for snark there. But hopefully there's a bit of a skip and with Abrams writing him he can get back to being snarky. Which, oddly, does sound funnier when he's in the mask. "They're obviously skilled at committing high treason!" (may be my favourite Kylo line of the 2 movies so far. That and TLJ "I'M SURE YOU ARE!!!" Huh, maybe he did still have some snark in TLJ)

 

I don't know how long you've been gone, but Rebels has been a true delight for Thrawn fans. And there are a few excellent books. Those threads have been fun. Especially when the last Rebels episode aired... lots of nerds freaking out about EU characters like old times.

Yeah, things can be divisive here but for the most part... with a few exceptions... people are cool in how they debate things. It's not as binary as "Disney has ruined Star Wars!" vs "Disney is so much better than the trash of the old EU!" anymore. I overall liked TLJ, but I see why @Jedi Ben didn't, and even completely agree with him on some points he made in the Ep8 thread. I'm not telling him to get lost because he doesn't like it and Ben's not telling me my taste in things sucks at least not in my face.

The one thing I do think is missing, unlike the OT and to some extent, PT (especially TPM), is the video game front. There's like TOR that has a small and ultranerdy group of specialized fans keeping it alive, and some Battlefront games with OK but not stellar plots, and some phone apps, but nothing spectacular. You would think they'd jump on video game tie-in to the new films, but it's been really lackluster. A shame, because games can add so much more to the stories.

So if you're into books, comics, and sourcebooks @son_of_skywalker03, it's... well, the usual mixed bag of really awesome, really awful, and lots of in between.

 

Or maybe he is just trying to be Poe in TFA, you know they guy who blow up Starkiller Base

My impression was not that he got over his issues he just exchanged them for other issues or are now hiding his old issues behind new motivation

 

High quality selective quoting

Johnson gives us a clear indicator as we see Poe and the reflection of the explosion, or a "filmic image" of the explosion rather than the explosion itself. Luke is the idol of most of our ST protagonists, with the notable exception of Finn who was brainwashed and doubts even his existence. For all the complaining that TLJ runs roughshod over TFA, the reactions of Poe et al to Luke's emergence is a fairly tremendous payoff to TFA's opening and overarching plot.

 

Barriss I didn’t go into TFA or any of the Disney movies wanting to dislike them. I wouldn’t bother spending my money at the Cinema if I thought that. It’s why I didn’t see Solo and won’t be going to see 9, but please don’t think that was my original intention.

But as I watched TFA I started thinking oh they don’t have a story to tell, they are just regurgitating the Original but with a mystery box plot added.
I rewatched it when it came out on Netflix and just before I saw TLJ and already it feels dated - I compare it to ANH which feels timeless even though that was 77 !

It’s why for all it’s faults I love the Clone Wars TV show And Revenge of the Sith. In both Lucas had a story to tell and it was fun and interesting. It’s also why I don’t love Rebels, Dave wasn’t telling a story just doing his own fan fiction but with Starwars label slapped on it

And that for me is the key to Starwars, telling or adding to the story, not simply recycling/churning something out to make money

That’s why I’ll still be buying Zahn's Thrawn Sequel. It’s at least adding to Thrawn story and I don’t think he cares if it goes with the current incarnation of Thrawn or not, he’s still gonna do it that way

 

Damn. Busted.

But more seriously, that's it in a nushell - we both paid money and spent time to see TLJ in the flicks and each of us see it the way that we do.

I think what keeps happening in TLJ threads is discussion is treated as debate. The difference? Well, debate is one side is the other trying to prove the other wrong - which is where every net discussion I've ever seen has gone nuclear. Discussion is no stakes and far less contentious, if you decide to alter your view because someone's insight which you wouldn't have worked out yourself then neat, but you're under no requirement to.

 

Of course, I selected the part I had an argument against. Why should I quote the rest?

Eh, I don't see Poe's actions in TLJ really reflecting any of Luke's actions in the OT. His trench run in TFA was much more reflecting Luke, and it could be argued that it was Poe's success in blowing up SKB that made him so focused in blowing up FO's mega-pizza slice and not thinking about the consequences.

 

@Jedi Ben What would IX have to do to save the ST for you?

 

Quite seriously DP? I have no idea.

I'm going with the precedent that I could not see any way for NJO to end successfully, that I disagreed massively with the bulk of the story decisions taken for that series too. Then, against all odds, TUF happened.

Can Ep IX do the same? There's no reason why not, but it has a far bigger relative mountain to climb. TUF had to justify the deaths of Anakin Solo and Chewie, Episode IX has to practically do the same for Luke, Han and Leia. Very hard, very hard to be sure but not impossible.

 

Hey, sorry I wasn't on over the weekend to answer this for you. Here you go!

 

I honestly doubt they will ever pull a TLJ Luke on Rey. If not just because Disney/LFL do seem to feel very proud and protective of her character’s success among the female audience, but also because they must know the nature of TLJ divisionism and I don’t think they are looking forward to repeat that again.

Although, we did joke a lot in the Sanctuary thread about the possibilities of Rey ended up as a washed up, failed master who thought about killing Finn’s son and spent the rest of her years wallowing in self-pity and disappointing little girls’ hearts who looked up to her. But that was just us being team schadenfreude.

 

Maybe they'll just rip off of the EU's Tales of the Jedi: Redemption, and have Rey's daughter run off to find Kylo for training years after Rey cut him off from the Force and exiled him to a remote planet.

 

I don't know about "Rey's daughter", but that being the plot of an eventual Episode 10 has been on my mind since TFA, with a Force-stripped Ben Solo as the old mentor for the new protagonist.

 

Anyone think it's possible Episode IX won't be the end of the Sequel Trilogy and instead it'll be a Sequel Quadrilogogy? I think it' possible but unlikely.

The real problem is if they jump into Episode X that would be, what at most maybe 5 years after Episode IX comes out? The actors wouldn't have aged enough to get the generational aspect of it. Unless they straight up recast Rey/Poe/Finn/Kylo whoever.

 

I'm fine with putting them all in old age makeup. It worked for Ian McDiarmid back in the 80s.

 

It could if the only surviving members were corrupted by the dark side. Although ILM is pushing it's digital aging/deaging tech pretty far (get to see a sustained trail de-aging run in Captain Marvel) maybe they'll just digital age them up to their 60s?