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Lit The EPISODE IX Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ghost, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Which bit? Because in Jedi he's a smooooth operator.

    Point is, it's hard to hate Lando except for in Empire - putting him the Holdo role would have required utterly twisting the character.
     
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  2. ChrisLyne

    ChrisLyne Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 29, 2002
    Agreed. I think Mark might be talking about the early ideas for the ST from the 80s which would have been able to feature the originals more and have included Luke training Leia. We know from the Art of TLJ that Luke isolated on the island and training Kira/Rey were part of Lucas' ideas for 7, so the Leia thing definitely seems like it comes from an earlier story. That said, who knows what Lucas was planning to do over the trilogy. We only know bits of his ideas for 7, nothing for 8 & 9. We know Luke's arc in 8 was taken (at least partially) from Lucas' ideas for 7 before it was decided to move Luke to the end of 7. So could Luke have died in 7 rather than 8? Or would 8 & 9 have featured a Luke who returned to the fight? I'd edging towards the later and I'm inclined to think Lucas' ST would have seen Luke die in IX (I guess mirroring Yoda's death in ROTJ) after a climatic battle that saw Luke take on the shadowy puppet master (Snoke) whilst Kira/Rey and a redeemed Solo son (Sam) fought the Jedi Killer (Talon). But that's all guess work based on early concept art and what little we know about the early ideas for VII.

    Hopefully we'll one day learn what was in Lucas' treatment for the ST (I'd love to see them do a comic series like Dark Horse did for the original Star Wars) but I'm certainly not holding my breath for it.
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    So... half of his time in Star Wars? He wasn't exactly as important or memorable in ROTJ either. Lando is remembered as the traitor who had second thoughts as the deal got worse.
     
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  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Clearly you're a first impressions guy Ghost.

    Although, more seriously viewing order does affect this, I started with Jedi so I knew Empire Lando'd turn good.

    I'd like to think SW fans are humane enough to see why Lando made that deal, that the Empire was holding the population of Cloud City over him - still the wrong option, but not without some good reason.
     
  5. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    I believe he's redeemed... but you can't just disregard his time in Empire... that's what his character is known for, and it's half of his time in the movies.

    I was just taking issue with your quote "it's hard to hate Lando except for in Empire."

    That's like saying "except for the prequel trilogy, we don't know that much about Vader before he became a Sith."
     
  6. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Yeah, that's called having an opinion, pedantic one.:D

    I can be picky too though: Nor is it half as Lando turns up halfway through ESB, spends part of the time as under Vader's leash, after that, he's a good guy for the whole of Jedi, so overall, it's a minority! :-B
     
  7. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Han in The Empire Strikes Back is still pretending he can't pay off Jabba so he can bail on the Alliance and on Leia whenever he wants to; I'd hand a guy like that over to Vader too, even without the threat to an entire city of people.

    Fans are way too hard on Lando.
     
  8. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 3, 2013
    And he's not even in heaps of ROTJ, really just the end battle and a bit of Jabba's Palace.
     
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  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Wow, tough crowd - saving your friend from carbonite and then blowing up a second Death Star from the inside ain't enough for you?
     
  10. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    Shade getting thrown at Lando makes me wanna reach for a Colt 45. Works every time.
     
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  11. Voltron64

    Voltron64 Jedi Knight

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    Dec 23, 2009
    I'm definitely headcanoning that there's a urban legend about Lando becoming the spokesman for Corellian Spiced Ale.
     
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  12. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    I'm saying you can't ignore his appearance in Empire Strikes Back.
     
  13. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    May 15, 2006
    But you can ignore the part in Empire where he realizes his mistake, rescues Leia and Chewie, tries to rescue Han before Boba flies away, tells the citizens to evacuate, rescues Luke, and then sets off to rescue Han?

    Seriously, you're talking as if he doesn't become a good guy at the end of the movie.
     
  14. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Lando was never a bad guy. The whole reason he betrays Han to begin with is because he is trying to be a good man. Part of the problem here is Timothy Zahn (like so many EU writers after him) forgetting that Han projects onto everyone around him, and he is usually wrong when he does so. When we meet him in The Empire Strikes Back Lando isn't the "card player, gambler, scoundrel" anymore. He's found success in a legitimate business, he is the Baron Administrator of an entire city, he has thousands of lives that he is responsible for. He isn't like Han, he can't just throw a fit and bail because Leia won't make out with him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012

    Zahn portrays Lando as a businessman in Heir to the Empire too - again, running a mining city (metals, rather than gas).
     
  16. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    My memory of that is that it is presented as some kind of hare-brained scheme, retroactively implying that Bespin was too, but I haven't read that story in a while.
     
  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

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    Sep 2, 2012
    He did "con somebody out of" Bespin in the first place. The idea seems to be that Lando is always a hybrid of businessman and gambler - the difference being that he gambles on businesses now.
     
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  18. Jedi Princess

    Jedi Princess Jedi Master star 3

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    Mar 25, 2014
    Did he? Or is that another one of Han's assumptions?
     
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  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 19, 1999
    Show me a business that isn't, for the person running it, a gamble.
     
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  20. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    No, it’s a complicated undertaking that required some creative thinking from Lando to get off the ground, but it shows Lando’s smarts for pulling it off rather than being a crazy get-rich-quick scheme. The wacky Lando business hijinks come up much more in stuff like The Corellian Trilogy.
     
  21. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Uh... where did I say I'm ignoring that?

    I'm responding to the claim that "if you just ignore Lando's appearance in ESB..."

    I'm saying the whole betrayal thing is an important part of his character arc, and that it takes place in ESB, as well as his turn back to help the heroes...
     
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  22. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Feb 9, 2007
    I'm not sure I'd even call Lando's introduction a "betrayal", or at least its not a mean act. Its not like he sold out Han for revenge or anything, he did it to protect Cloud City and he's very regretful about it. He also was trying to bargain for their lives ( he never agreed to "giving Han to this bounty hunter"). Albeit trying to bargain with Vader is a desperate act with long odds, but it was either that or try to resist and die earlier.

    In a way Lando comes off better than Han's "I changed my mind kid". That was Han eventually listening to his better nature, Lando was introduced as a respectable businessman and leader of a city. And when the deal with Vader fell through he ordered the city evacuated.

    While I wouldn't mind seeing Lando again, I'd rather he stay out of the sequel trilogy mess. They'd probably just kill him off too rather than use him in an important role.
     
  23. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    So having watched the Last Jedi deleted scenes there is a scene where Luke teaches a "lesson" however he doesn't officially say "Third lesson" anywhere (in the film, he prefaces each lesson by explicitly saying "Lesson one" "Lesson two") so bit of wiggle room but there's possibility that his "third lesson" as a Force Ghost could still come in Episode IX. Bit of continuity tap dancing but Star Wars kinda does that a lot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  24. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 13, 2003
    So, there's talk of Meryl Streep being cast as Leia for IX...
     
  25. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2004
    Not really. The “story” originates from Movieweb, which is clickbait trash. To be ignored.