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Lit The Essential Atlas and Galactic Cartography: Official Discussion

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CeiranHarmony, Oct 14, 2005.

  1. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
    This is the basis upon which all such future sector maps should be designed.
     
  2. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I've always compared the Core Worlds to the city-states of the ancient mediterranean. At one point in the past, they were essentially states unto themselves, controlling their local hinterlands and projecting military power throughout the region. As the Republic develops, they become part of a vast network of planets, but are still essentially regional powers with the sort of resources under their beck and call that otherwise larger polities might have.

    Under the Roman Empire, cities like Ephesos, Antiocheia, Alexandreia, Neapolis, Tarsos, etc etc were effectively still independent city-states that were mostly self-run. I'd say this would be the model that the Old Republic used, except with the addition of independent PSFs. Planet-states is an ugly term so we shouldn't use it, but that should essentially be what the oldest and most powerful Core Worlds were.
     
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  3. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Didn’t those usally also have nobles with armed retainers ?

    System States sounds better. :p
     
  4. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I AM NOT THE LOYAL IMPERIAL :mad:

    (to answer your question -- sure, but there were rich people on the Rim too; the aggregate resources at the disposal of a Core World's government would be greater than that)
     
  5. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Yeah but in those ancient city states those nobles where the government, as they often also seem to be on Core Worlds :)
     
  6. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Correct, but P. Valerius Poplicola would not use his personal retainers when he wanted to go clobber the Veiientes, he would use Roman legions. Similarly, if Mr. Romney were to become President of the United States (and please, let's not get into a political discussion -- this is just an example), we would not measure the power projection of the United States based on the personal wealth of its leader, but by the power held by the state.
     
  7. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Annnnnd... updated my PDF. Just to be sure that any other updates hadn't snuck in after I had downloaded it during the stealth update.
     
  8. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    Past historical snippets have suggested such an approach, such as the reference to the Azure Imperium, or the Humbarine Rule, or Esseles' domination on Darpa Sector - the early Republic consisting of disparate cultures bound together only loosely for the purposes of trade, exploration and settling interstate disputes. A look into the pre-Republic states that postdated the Rakatans would be interesting. (And while there may have been some friction, Saxton's notion of a Great War leading to the birth of the Republic seems to have fallen to the wayside).
     
  9. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    I have to wonder if the Republic was ever regarded as an extension of Coruscant's rule -- or if the planet had any such "hinterlands" itself, or if it was regarded as a politically neutral area, a sort of urbs in commune toti humano generi.

    edit: And before anybody says anything -- yes, those stinkin' aliens don't count. :p
     
  10. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 12, 2009
    Saxton didn't invent the Unification Wars that led to the early Republic. Bioware apparently did in Knights of the Old Republic. Or Matthew Stover in Shatterpoint. Whichever came first.
     
  11. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    I don't recall any references to the "Unification Wars" at the dawn of the Republic, either directly and indirectly, in either work. The only quote that even vaguely connects that I can find in Shatterpoint is "War tales in the Temple archives, from the early years of the Republic and before.". So what specific quotes are you referring to from those two sources?
     
  12. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    jasonfry

    I would love to see more political maps. We get some of them in the Essential Atlas and EGTW, but more would be welcome! I for one would love to see a political map showing the extent of the Galactic Alliance. Given the various struggles this new government went through in its early years, it's borders are not as defined as they could be, other than the vague implications in FOTJ that the majority of the known galaxy is under its control.

    Besides, such a map would offer perfect chance to show what other minor powers might of sprung up along the edges of known space and in less settled areas post-Vong War... :-D

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  13. Mange

    Mange Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2003
    I agree, it doesn't make any sense (and I still don't like it that huge swathes of the galactic disc remained unexplored by the time of the PT which is clearly not the case going by the movies, novelizations and screenplays. Heck, the AOTC novelization and screenplay explicitly mentions that 80 percent of the galaxy "were covered" by the Jedi Archives but that's not criticism of the Atlas of course).
     
  14. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Just check the Atlas section about the Unknown Regions :) They have send probes there to chart it, but getting their with hyperdrives just tends to be harder than is often worth it/ close to impossible.
     
  15. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 8, 2004
    Never understood the problem with what was said in AOTC...

    We've mapped the solar system but it doesn't mean Pluto is part of the UN.
     
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  16. Tzizvvt78

    Tzizvvt78 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Really, you don't understand what the problem is? So when a 25,000 year old galactic civilization has a huge swath of space unexplored and undeveloped almost right next door to its capital, that never strikes you as odd that they have no info on this area of space and never thought of exploring it due to "hyperspace disturbances"?
    The excuse that you need Force-sensitives to navigate doesn't add up either, since they had those for much of the Republic's existence. And said Force-sensitives bothered to map out a path to their own crystal repository, but not much else.

    As much as I like the Atlas, it's still trying to fix jabbing a square peg in a round hole.
     
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  17. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Those they send to explore could easily just have never came back (which is something the Outbound Flight project also faced), or even if they find a save lane, by the next time someone tries it, it can easily have gone again, discouraging further exploration even more and they have swath of underdeveloped space sitting all over the galaxy. Deep Core is also right next to the galactic capital and Palpatine had to brute force colonizing that, which became a disaster pretty much the moment the funding he provided stopped.
     
  18. CeiranHarmony

    CeiranHarmony Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 10, 2004
    leading to the question: HYPERSPACE BARRIER.. what is it, which we discussed in here long ago already with the Atlas release and before ;)

    here my theories on it:
    -space and time distortions and phenomenons that make passage impossible or near impossible, including blackholes around the barrier and else (continuous barrier without holes)
    -no subspace barrier at all, merely a barrier in HYPERSPACE dimension that prevents hyperspacetravel
    -barrier that can be passed but is unlikely to be passed alive like: huge comets, asteroid fields and else along the entire edge of the Unknown Regions that have no safe routes through and are always moving and changing with only Jedi or lucky pilots managing to get through safely. In addition they prevent hyperspace travel since no route stays safe for more than a few seconds and it takes hours to pass it.

    also I'd say in recent years the UR barrier got holes and less secure since several incidents weakened it. TOR era has lots of celestial and rakatan and other supertech explored and used/abused.. some might lead to the barriers system loosing its coordination or perfection. Before that, the barrier already had holes ever since Revan found the Starforge and in FOTJ the failure of Kessel tech and release of Abeloth also had effects on other celestial tech across the entire galaxy as the books noted. so.. maybe the UR gets unlocked finally and spills its.. captives.
     
  19. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
  20. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

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    Nov 11, 2003
    I wrote a section on the hyperspace barrier and speculation about its origins for Warfare, but we cut it. Maybe someday....
     
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  21. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    I would be thrilled to see that. If it can't be incorporated into a new Atlas/Warfare supplement, is it possible that one of the novel or comic authors might pick up on it? Either the Atlas or The Unknown Regions suggested that the Celestials created it to wall off the terrors of the UR.
     
  22. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 29, 2005
    The Atlas - "Hypotheses regarding its creation have speculated on natural origins (hyperspatial gravitic ripples) and the remnants of ancient conflicts (a purported barricade between the Celestials and the upstart Rakata)."
     
  23. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 10, 2011
    Am I dumb, or is there no higher-resolution version of the map to zoom in on?
     
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  24. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

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    Nov 11, 2003
  25. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004
    Maybe it has been mentioned somewhere before, but I just spotted that the Corporate Sector seems to have disappeared on the Legacy Era New Empire map. I assume it lost its special status and got fully integrated into the Empire? :confused:
     
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