Lit The Essential Atlas and Galactic Cartography: Official Discussion

We can fiddle with problems with the new map by assuming that it doesn't use the same 'centre' as the BtM one, by assuming that the VP one is like the London Underground map, expanding and contracting areas for clarity, and by playing with the fact that not all planets are at the same height - making the Remnant/Alliance border run at an angle closer to the eliptic than 'vertical' would go some way to salvaging the implied distance that's been opened up between places like Dantooine and Muunilist...

Actually, that's a good idea. We can see in this image [image=http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/aotc~/owkmap4.jpg] that Kamino is kind of up and off the main galactic disk. Perhaps its location on the NJO maps is because the the Rishi Maze is between the observer and the main GFFA?

 

good point, I agree. that has to explain the location within the galaxy on the map.

but it doesn´t solve the location on the locations map. there it is not next to tatooine at the side but uh north of it.. dunno how to explain properly. it is 90° moved in relation to tatooine. from side of tatooine to edge of galaxy beyond tatooine.

 

Um, possibly - but perhaps not quite. If you compare the map with the BtM one, you'll see that the worlds beyond the outer loop lie further out within the disk, as depicted... Mon Cal should be even further off...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

Personally, I've only used the Complete Locations maps in the past only if they provide new information. I tried to draw in the quadrants once a year or so ago and I just couldn't make it work. I find that there is no way to reconcile much of the data and I view it as a simplistic representation of the important locations in the galaxy. Because all of the other maps have held to a similar perspective I regard them as more accurate that this new map.

Sounds like the map in the Essential Chronology will be the definitive map... well except for mine. Just kidding. Seriously, I hope I can continue to add information to generate the most comprehensive maps out there.

 

If you think that this map is bad, try the Star Tours one.

IIRC, it has Yavin in the Cron Drift. Plus some other really goofy placements.

 

keep the good work up, carty

after looking at the locations map again something caught my eye that might explain every trouble with it easily. follow the rabbit.. uhm... my thoughts:

1) the planet descriptions in the book show distance from core in lightyears

2) comparing this to the map, the distance from core of every planet fits the map

3) my assumption: The map is no accurate galaxy map, it shouldn´t even BE a map. it just is a graphic showing the distances from the core for each planet. they are grouped next to those planets they would be next to on an actual map. but aside from that it is no map. just a chart for showing distances from core. thoughts? except for the double kashyyyk error everything seems to be solved with this explanation.

please comments/thoughts on this?

 

CH: genius. It's a relative-distance map. The quadranting probably has something to do with major hyperlanes. Double Kashyyyk probably means two major routes.

You get the first ever highly-coveted Contruum Spanner for Fixing Stuff!

- The Imperial Ewok

 

thx.. I.. thx.. *speechless*

 

No wonder Rex passed the Endor Moon!

 

Carty: Why do you place Ukio by Rishi in the Outer Rim? I thought Ukio was in Abrion Sector in the Mid Rim, bordering Dufilvian Sector (Ando)?

 

can a mod please change the topic title of my thread to:

Galactic Cartography: Placements & Inconsistencies Discussion


the locations map prob is fixed, so the new title should be suited better for our upcoming analysis!

 

I'm gonna have to dig up my notes. I don't remember the source offhand.

 

>>>No wonder Rex passed the Endor Moon!<<<

Excellent. It makes perfect sense: Rex was programmed with a faulty navi-comp module.

So, ah, any word on a possible Star Tours article?

 

If you need any research, I'm on location...

TC

 

Just one question... why the heck did the Vong invade through the Outer Rim, rather than just dropping vertically down on Coruscant via somewhere convenient for staging but unlikely to bother the NR, like Koornacht or even the Deep Core...

Or does the 'edge' of the Outer Rim simply lie on the surface of the disk, rather than the astronomical rim...

I'll be back to you with what I think an absolute maximum for the width of the Core Regions later today. I reckon it's going to be something less than 10% of the width of the disk. Which is quite small, really...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

nice thoughts, rim might be edge of disk, too. but the maps don´t show it as rim, so I doubt that.

and for the vong not using that method, I think, they didn´t because too much obstacles in their way on that path. like gravity issues maybe or who knows what. hmm.. not satisfying my answer, have to think about it.

maybe their warriors pride thought it was too easy to do that lol

 

Good question Thrawn... and although I know I am in no position to answer a question from a Star Wars fan of your caliber I can offer some military info. Assuming they woul have dropped out of "Darkspace: simultaneously above Coruscant they would have captured the city-planet I am sure. But they would have needed a sizeable fleet.

Establishing a bridgehead in enemy territoiry is always risky. All available fleet groups would have been called to Coruscant by the Chief of State almost instantly. It would have taken some time for the Fleets to unite and reach Coruscant allowing the Yuuzhan Vong there to capture it but they would have been destroyed then.

They would not have cultivated Belkadan or Sernpidal either and would have had no new warships. It's pretty obvious that most of the original YV fleet consisted of Worships and not of Warships, Coralskipper Carriers and Frigates.

 

I like your answer! may I donate the Waru-Actionfigure as a reward for that answer? it comes packed with the Hat of Krukh and the Pauldron of Katarn.

that explains very wellwhy they wouldn´t have done that. also when the galaxy is 3D, they´d hit first worlds above coruscant, that are heavily defended like other coreworlds. they would have no surprise factor like in the beginning in the outer rim where nobody cares. and the republic would have acted much sooner and in force. also they´d not gotten that much territory that fast, and that was what they needed first, to grow new worldships and supply their dying people, as the first NJO books hint at (worldship construction destroying other worlds, and creating plants on severalplanets to grow all they need). they needed resupplying after the long intergalactic flight.

 

>>>If you need any research, I'm on location... <<<

Just a suggestion. You should take notes or photos on the galaxy map that they have there, since it has some major errors and odd data on it. It would be interesting to compare it to normal maps, etc.

And don't get hurricane-ified.

 

I have a picture of the map, I will upload it for ya, but dunno if they have a new one now.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/Ceiran/PICT0091.jpg

[image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/Ceiran/PICT0091.jpg]

 

Thanks.

I was just giving TC a suggestion, if he hasn't studied the map already. Especially since the fine print at the side of the map is hard to see in most photos.

 

A Action figure... oh goody . You shouldn't have

 

Thrawn McEwok:

Just one question... why the heck did the Vong invade through the Outer Rim, rather than just dropping vertically down on Coruscant via somewhere convenient for staging but unlikely to bother the NR, like Koornacht or even the Deep Core...

I've always assumed it had to do with the nature of the hyperspace distortion beyond the galaxy's edge. Perhaps the distortion is least out there for some reason of hyperspace physics related to the spin of a spiral galaxy.

 

O-W_K-O, CH: that was why I mentioned Koornacht and the Deep Core (and you can throw in Hapes); the YV could have siezed bases without breaking sweat, or troubling the NR... though perhaps they'd be more exposed there than elsewhere?

I guess, of course, if they left from the Tingel Arm, and all they actually knew was how to find their way back to the same exit...

jSarek: hmm... more than entirely possible!! Does it have to be that way, though...?

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[hr]
A few interesting figures... maybe this has been done before, but comparing the map of the Core in [i]Coruscant and the Core Worlds[/i] with the [link=http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/cg/btm/btm-map.jpg]Behind the Magic[/link] map of the Galaxy, it's possible to establish a relaive scale, since from Coruscant to Brentaal is no more than 5k light years (the furthest place from Cour. in Imperial Centre Oversector, which actually lies in the Colonies, is just under 5k ly away)...

Now we can plot this quite nicely from the one map to the other - the three shared stars, Coruscant, Corellia, and Alderaan, match up tolerably closely - and we can extrapolate out some other distances... Mon Calamari, the furthest Rimward world shown, lies about 40k light years from galactic central point, and the longest span across the axis is 70k light years, from Dantooine to Dagobah...

Now remember, these are [i]maximums[/i]; for all we know, the Cour.-Brentaal distance could easily be somewhat less than 5k ly...

Why is this important? Because the diameter of the Galactic disk is 120,000 light years ([i]Shield of Lies[/i], p. 39).

Now [b]if[/b] (and I stress [b]if[/b] these measurements are accurate - the maps could be wrong, or my maths could have gone wrong), they suggest that Mon Cal, one of the most "Rimward" of planets on any map, only lies about 2/3 the way to the actual edge of the disk... and the outer third in diamater terms represents 5/9 of the area...

They also suggest that Dantooine, which the YV reached in [i]Onslaught[/i], lies less than 2/3 of the way to the actual edge of the Galaxy...

Some further thoughts, which aren't actually directly dependant on the foregoing shameless conjecture, but might be interesting in the light of it...

1.) Is there the any canon evidence that Belkadan lies on the edge of the disk, rather than simply the edge of the main volume of the GFFA?
2.) Given that "Galactic" civilization spreads primarily along hyperlanes, could salients of the Unknown Regions push Corewards between the major routes?
3.) Again, considering the role of hyperlanes, and considering that the quarter of systems still under Imperial control at the start of HttE are in "what had once been the backwater of the Empire", but must extend from near Bespin to near Ord Mantell, is the reason they were able to defend the "back" of the Galaxy more effectively something to do with the lack of major spacelanes in the area...?

- The Imperial Ewok