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Lit The Essential Atlas and Galactic Cartography: Official Discussion

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CeiranHarmony, Oct 14, 2005.

  1. AzureOwl

    AzureOwl Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2015
    I think that while the First Order might not have many actual planets under it's control in the Unknown Regions, they could be extracting tribute from a large number of worlds in the area. There could be hundreds of petty empires in the Unknown Regions that wouldn't stand a chance against the exiled Imperials and would fork over material, personnel in order to retain some level of internal autonomy.

    I believe I've mentioned this before, but my gut feeling is that the First Order's holdings in the Unknown Regions operate like the protection racket of truly epic proportions.
     
  2. AzureOwl

    AzureOwl Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Double post.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  3. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
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  4. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Agreed. The closest the FO has to any functioning state is up in the New Territories, but even that is probably more local governments doing their own thing, pledging fealty to the FO, and then supplying a steady stream of recruits, credits, and raw material. Snoke's decision to not create a capital (or really setup any semblance of a civilian government) basically makes them conquering hordes, not a formal state.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  5. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    According to the Visual Dictionary, the Supremacy WAS in fact the capital, so, in other words, both sides are now decapitated. I strongly suspect Ep. IX will have a "smaller but more personal" sort of conflict.
     
  6. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    @Hamburger_Time

    No need to use tags, the spoiler period is over. The First Order did lose their capital and leader, but I suspect that loss will be less catastrophic than the loss of Hosnian Prime. A lot of people (including Hux & Kylo) survived the crippling of the Supremacy, no one survived on the NR side.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  7. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Oh, okay.

    In any case, debris from the Supremacy took out a good chunk of their fleet too, if you look closely.
     
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  8. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    They can simply settle on Coruscant and call it the Second Empire. Easily done.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    I'd accept this, only because one of my fanboy dreams for Episode IX is to have one last epic battle over Coruscant. End the movie with the New Republic symbolically re-establishing itself in the old Senate Rotunda and I will die a happy man. :cool:

    --Adm. Nick
     
  10. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Hopefully it convinces the NR it does kinda need more centralized leadership, at least.

    Alternately I could see them going the opposite route and deciding that whether it's a Republic, an Empire, a First Order, or whatever, attempting to give a single body stewardship of an entire galaxy is a fool's errand. Wouldn't like that nearly as much though.
     
  11. MrDarth0

    MrDarth0 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Supremacy wasn't destroyed, just heavily damaged. If JJ decides he wants it in IX, it can easily be explained that the FO dragged it to safe space and repaired it. Especially if there's several years gab between VIII and IX.
     
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  12. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Alrighty folks, I'm in the process of updating my list of canon New Republic member worlds, here is my list as published in my ETE article from April of last year:

    http://eleven-thirtyeight.com/2017/...raphic-look-post-galactic-concordance-galaxy/

    Core Worlds
    Alderaan
    Chandrila
    Corellia
    Coruscant
    Ganthel
    Harloff Minor
    Hosnian Prime
    Kuat
    Velusia

    Colonies
    Abednedo
    Commenor
    Devaron

    Inner Rim
    Birren
    Cona
    Riosa

    Mid Rim
    Ando
    Bothawui
    Contruum
    Ithor
    Kashyyyk
    Malastare
    Naalol
    Naboo
    Nakadia
    Orinda
    Ottega
    Roche
    Tarsunt
    Uyter

    Outer Rim
    Akiva
    Anthan Spire
    Arkanis
    Askaj
    Bespin
    Comra
    Daxam IV
    Jelucan
    Mon Cala
    Nag Ubdur
    Pamarthe
    Quermia
    Rodia
    Sullust
    Taris
    Vashka
    Yavin IV

    Unknown Placement
    Ashaftan (species)
    Candovant
    Frong
    Gatalenta
    Hevurion
    Lonera
    Mirrin Prime
    Orish
    Torphlus
    Ubardia

    Potential Members
    Garel
    Lothal
    Mykapo
    Onderon
    Pantora
    Telaris

    If anyone sees any that I am missing, I'd appreciate you pointing them out! :)

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  13. iucounu

    iucounu Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2014
    (Could stick it back together with black sticky tape, it'd look exactly like Kylo's scar...)
     
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  14. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    If the Resistance recorded this in addition to the humiliation of Kylo Ren on Crait and the dreadnought's destruction at D'Qar, not to mention the last messages of various Resistance fighters who perished giving their lives against the First Order, this might be a factor in the next film to which planets chose to side with the new rebellion or not.
     
  15. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Ugh, I forgot an obvious member recently confirmed. Virgilla. :oops:

    I'm thinking there are some other obvious ones I missed, grr!!

    I'm not sure why I love cataloging this kinda stuff, but I do. It's almost therapeutic. [face_laugh]

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  16. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Gah, missed Ord Pardron too! It was listed as an Alliance planetary ally in The Rebel Files (along worlds like Chandrila, Mon Cala, and Alderaan), so I suspect this world might be a good candidate for being a New Republic member/base as well.

    Ord Pardron is one of those cool places that we don't see much of. I decided to pull out my old copy of The Thrawn Trilogy sourcebook, I had forgotten that the world was basically a large asteroid with a thin atmosphere. Like all "Ordnance/Regional Depot" planets, it was primarily a frontier fort for the Old Republic. In the old EU, it was finally abandoned by the Empire in 1 BBY, when it's minerals were exhausted. It lacked a civilian population, but was eventually home to over 68,000 New Republic military personnel.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  17. Grievousdude

    Grievousdude Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2013
    Do we know if any former Separatist worlds ended up joining the New Republic?
     
  18. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Yes, several sources note that the decision to make the New Republic different from the Old Republic (most notably not basing the new government on Coruscant) drew in many former Separatist systems. Sullust and Devaron are two examples. We've hypothesized in this thread and the Endor to Jakku thread that the former Separatist worlds most likely to join the New Republic were the ones that had genuine grievances against the Old Republic, not the major corporate powers like Neimoidia, Scipio, and the like.

    The big corporations that composed the Confederacy get a lot of attention, but people forget that the Sith exploited member worlds with serious disaffection with Republic corruption and manipulated them into the separatist cause. There are "thousands of systems" that were former Republic members who joined the Confederacy of Independent Systems because of the corruption of the late Republic. A democratic, egalitarian, and freedom espousing New Republic attracted many of those worlds back into the fold of mainstream galactic government.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  19. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Saturday morning musings on stellar cartography with coffee... :p

    I'm interested to learn about the Warlentta system. Home of Commander D'acy (one of the female Resistance officers we see with VADM Holdo), this world "refused" to join the New Republic and many of it's citizens questioned the Republic's decision to de-militarize. It sounds to me like this world was courted by the New Republic, but it turned down membership once the demilitarization efforts were approved. Little tidbits like this are the kind of things I love about the visual dictionaries and cross sections.

    I checked the Wookieepedia and Warlentta is a new system, so it will need a placement.

    I also want to know where Pippip 3, homeworld of Resistance A-wing pilot Tallie Lintra is. Being that it is an agrarian world, my guy says Mid Rim. Though that's because I always imagine the Mid Rim as the American Mid West. :p

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  20. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    So, feudalism basically.
     
  21. TheRedBlade

    TheRedBlade Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 17, 2007
    Does this make Naboo Chicago?

    ....don't tell @GrandAdmiralJello
     
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  22. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    The analogy for American regions was first used, if memory serves, by Dan Wallace. Probably back in the history of this thread. Even he noted it wasn't perfect. It works if you're using early 19th century America (13 original states are the Core, Vermont/Kentucky/Tennessee are the Colonies, etc), as the Westward expansion made the Mid Rim the Mid West and the western parts of the United States were the equivalent of the Outer Rim. Obviously there are tons of holes in this analogy if you peel back the skin more than a layer or two, but it works in a broad sense.

    I can't recall where, but years ago there was a fun fan made map of the United States, but with each state representing a Star Wars world based on the states geography and features. Obviously it was far from perfect, but I recall New York being Coruscant, Hawaii being Mon Cala, etc.

    Of course, this only works in the loosest sense, as states vary a lot within their own borders. Take my beloved home state of California. Los Angeles basically is Coruscant, the Death Valley is as dry as Jakku, Sacramento and it's surrounding grasslands are a dead ringer for Lothal, Tahoe could be Alderaan or Esseles, Sonoma/Napa counties are Naboo, the forests of Crescent City are literally Endor, and my home on the Monterey Bay with it's costal cities and progressive politics is Chandrila.

    --Adm. Nick
     
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  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    It was Dan Wallace, yes - it was the endnotes for The Essential Atlas:


    http://geekosity.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/endnotes-for-star-wars-essential-atlas_24.html

    DAN: This is a good point to discuss my thoughts on structuring the galaxy, and what it would mean from a cultural standpoint. Apologies in advance for the U.S.-centric nature of this explanation, but it's what I was drawing on from personal experience, and I thought a society that initially formed in a concentrated area and later spread out into a vast, untamed frontier lent itself well to such parallels. The Republic is split into six major divisions, and while working on the Atlas my mental stereotypes were:

    Core: Manhattan. An undisputed center of business, fashion, music, publishing, tourism, food, you name it. "If you can make it there you can make it anywhere." Undeniably impressive, but its residents are hated by outsiders as arrogant elites.

    Colonies: Brooklyn/Queens. The outer boroughs of New York City just aren't the same as Manhattan, but what the hell, it's still New York.

    Inner Rim: New Jersey. The object of much mockery from New Yorkers, despite the fact that New York City and New Jersey are all right on top of each other. Culturally, New Jersey is considered some sort of remote hinterland, but only to New Yorkers. Outsiders don't quite get it (somebody from Indianapolis has no reason to make a New Jersey joke) and that's part of the point. To those who live in the area, once you've traveled out of their small patch of the eastern seaboard you've left the Core and entered the Rim.

    Expansion Region: Detroit. The beginning of the Rim, i.e. a place settled during frontier expansion where it eventually became an industrial powerhouse. (Actually Detroit was settled in 1701 by the French, but let's not split hairs.) Like many such places in the so-called "Rust Belt," Detroit's days as a factory town are on the wane and it is filled with empty symbols of industry.

    Mid Rim: Iowa. A place of modest towns and modest ambitions, known for honest, hard-working friendly folk. Derided as hopelessly behind the curve and about as exciting as a bowl of unbuttered mashed potatoes.

    Outer Rim: Dogpatch, Arkansas. If you live here you live a long way from anywhere with cultural bragging rights. It doesn't matter how smart, stylish, or brilliant you are - as soon as you announce your hometown even Midwesterners give you "that look" and mentally classify you as a hillbilly.

    I'm sure I annoyed many U.S. readers with my gross stereotyping, but this isn't meant to be a commentary on America so much as it is a structure with which I could set my head and write about the regions as if they were real places. (It's obviously an incomplete structure anyway, since a city like Los Angeles has no place in this particular cosmology.) I'm a Mid-Rimmer by birth who has lived in the Expansion Region so I'm certainly not one to cast any culture-war stones.
     
  24. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    May 3, 2015
    This actually kind of works since that "exception to the rule of regional stereotypes" thing happens in-universe too. Taris, Eriadu, Sullust, and Mon Cala are all in the Outer Rim.
     
  25. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    Yeah, the Outer Rim is in alot of ways the most fascinating, as it is so varied. You have desolate fringe worlds, untamed wildernesses, pirate hideouts, and other "Old West" kinda worlds alongside cosmopolitan worlds, homeworlds of technologically advanced Republic members, and industrial powerhouses. If you look at the locations of major Outer Rim worlds like Mon Cala, Sullust, or Taris, they all are on or close to one of the major galactic hyperlanes. That is really what makes OR worlds different. Those near the main arteries of galactic travel and commerce can be just as advanced and cosmopolitan as any world in the Core, while those that are far away are basically the equivalent of watering holes in a vast desert.

    --Adm. Nick