Lit The Essential Guide to Warfare by Jason Fry and a pseudonymous Scotsman

Discussion in 'Literature' started by whateveritis12, May 17, 2010.

  1. blackmyron Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    I believe the thought is that the hibridium cloak was developed post-Endor - it's doubtful that anything would've been deposited at the Tantiss vaults after the Battle of Endor.
  2. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    The Dogfights happen later, the Rebel TIEs infiltrate the fleet and the first thing they do is go for the ISDs, which causes most of the fleet to start shooting at each other at random trying to hit each others TIEs.
  3. Thrawn McEwok Co-Author: Essential Guide to Warfare

    VIP
    Member Since:
    May 9, 2000
    star 6
    It's that, and that the post-Endor timeframe of the hibridium project (in the Garos short stories) is also too early to be based on the schematics recovered from the Mount Tantiss vaults... and I was worried that there seemed to be some indications that Zaarin's cloaks were canonically both hibridium-based and non-double-blind... and a couple of other reasons, too....

    Does that mean it worked, either as continuity or as writing? I hope so, but I always enjoy feedback! :D

    One of the tricky challenges of writing continuity-sensitive STAR WARS is that you have aim so that it to works for the casual reader, and works for the fans who know part or all of the relevant lore (and who may disagree amongst themselves on its implications)... when you're finessing a detail like cloaking device chronology, I reckon you have to aim for both easy narrative simplicity and complex continuity navigation in the same prose...

    I almost feel sorry for the SSDs now. :(

    Another novel for the re-read list, though... thanks! :D

    Gotcha. :D

    -- The Imperial Ewok
  4. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    I do, and it's supported by the very first film, where the Death Star's surface is hit by X-wings to the point of vaporizing metal (visible smoke in the flybys). But there's a difference between firing individual blasts and firing the entire power pack at once. A power pack that's been modified and added to to the point of giving each ship hyperdrive capability. A bit different from the stock intrasystem TIE.

    Not any weaker than the hull of the Death Star, whose outer layers get vaporized in combat with fighters in that obscure source called A New Hope.
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Oct 15, 2012
    Mange likes this.
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    How much of that was metal and how much escaping atmosphere?
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Oct 15, 2012
  6. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Well, we see fire coming up, so they pierced the surface and hit something underneath. We also see individual stations being shook on the inside from blasts.

    This is still a far cry from taking out the battle station itself in that manner with individual fighter craft, let alone a battlecruiser that's still operational after the super-blast and could return fire almost immediately.
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Oct 15, 2012
  7. Skywalker_T-65 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2009
    star 6
    I meant blowing through the shields, not the armor.;)
  8. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    Do we ever see fighter lasers blasting through shields? I thought it was more a case of - slip under shields, fire at ship.
  9. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I don't know about these post-Endor Garos short stories, so I don't have a clue about what you are talking about. I only know about two types of cloaking devices, stygium (non-double blind) and hibridium (double blind). I was under the impression that the Vorknkx Project was the hibridium project, because Grand Admiral Martio Batch tried hibridium as an alternative to stygium for the TIE Phantom Project during the same time frame as the Vorknkx Project. The implications of what you are saying is there is yet a third type of cloaking device, which just seems silly to me.
  10. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    I don't think we see any shield interaction even with the narration. It wouldn't be that strong anyway, since the ship is in the middle of a protective fleet with no visible enemies.
    Until they start blasting at each other. Which would actually steal shield strength if they angle them in other directions, there's no incoming turbolaser bolts where Luke's fighter is.

    We know from the movies shields work that way, increasing and decreasing depending on where you want to increase your defense. Also, lowering the shields to let the guns underneath fire, another movie element.

    Gee, it's like the movies make a "maximalist"'s job easier.:p
    Last edited by Tzizvvt78, Oct 15, 2012
  11. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
    I know the Wook's information has to be taken with a pinch of salt, but it has the Mount Tantiss device as being the prototype for the hibridium-based system - which would fit with the double-blind disadvantage that Thrawn overcame by proxy use of the Force, Tierce overcame by attaching the ISDs to a comet but which the Predictor never did overcome!

    I've no clue about the Garos short stories or Zaarin's project - I've never read them!

    However, how likely would it be that a proportion of the newly accessed Stygium crystals escaped destruction at Fondor?
    Zeta1127 likes this.
  12. blackmyron Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Zaarin's project was the focus of the end campaigns of the TIE Fighter game - Thrawn realizes Zaarin's weakness is his over-reliance on technology, and learns that the cloak he's working on has a fatal flaw if active when entering hyperspace... and that Zaarin doesn't know about it. He then maneuvers Zaarin in a situation where he'll use the cloak while escaping, ending in his death.

    The Garos short stories from the Star Wars Adventure Journal involve the rare substance hibridium, which like many a space opera mineral/ore is only found on one planet, Garos IV.
  13. DarthCane Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 4
    It makes some sense - take modern ships that don't have shields. One errant aircraft rocket almost did in a US supercarrier during the Vietnam War - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire
  14. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    If we have numbers for either the X-Wing's laser cannons or the proton torpedos they carry, we can get a rough estimate of the other, as the torpedo is said to pack twice the punch of the X-wings quad linked guns in one of the early X-Wing books, IIRC.
  15. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Twice as much as one, single volley or for the entire output of the laser cannons?
  16. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    Reposting from the Agent of the Empire thread:

  17. AdmiralWesJanson Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2005
    star 5
    It fits rather well. Mothma was the Idealist and the politician. Bel Iblis was the Militarist and the organizer. Bail was the Pragmatist and the financier. As the pragmatist, Bail is in the perfect position to mediate between Bel Iblis and Mon Mothma, who have somewhat opposing areas of expertise- military vs social/politics. Mon Mothma is the leader politically, Bel Iblis is the leader politically, but Bail, and the financier, has enough leverage to make them both fall into line as needed. But just because Bail tended to mediate between those other two does not mean he does not have his own interests, and as a Pragmatist, getting Serenno and the ex separatists on board would help a lot, even if Mothma saw the political drawbacks of that move.
    Valin__Kenobi likes this.
  18. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    I thought, based on my reading of Essential Guide to Warfare- that it was Bail who objected most to the Seperatists, that it was Bel Iblis who wanted them onside- and that it was Mon Mothma taking the "middle way".
  19. Ulicus Lit'ari

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 6
    Mon Mothma: putting the mean in the golden mean fallacy.
    GrandAdmiralJello likes this.
  20. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 7
    More "compromise that both sides can live with" than "the best solution"- but that's common in policies.
  21. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 5
  22. darthbarracuda Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    I was looking at the book, and it seemed interesting. Although I must admit it looks like it has more of a "history" of combat in Star Wars than it does actual technical details, tactics, maneuvers, etc.

    Is anyone out there who has the book willing to tell me if it has a nice amount of tactics and stuff? Cause that's one of the major flaws I see in Star Wars. The tactics make either no sense or the battles operate in a WWII or earlier style of combat, when it should be a least like today's modern combat.

    I think it's a cool book and I'm thinking of ordering it, however I want to know a few things before hand.

    Thanks!
  23. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
  24. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    I paid more attention to the history, so I can't really answer that for you.

    I do think you should order it though -- it's one of the best reference works out there.
  25. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    It does indeed cover history of conflicts more than tactics or maneuvers, while it does go into some strategic discussions. Still worth buying of course. :)
    Though guides you might enjoy in regard to tactics and strategy are the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook and The Rebel Spec Force Handbook. The Adventure Journals also have a few very interesting articles like „A World to conquer“ and an article on Imperial Garrisons.