Lit The Essential Guide to Warfare by Jason Fry and a pseudonymous Scotsman

Discussion in 'Literature' started by whateveritis12, May 17, 2010.

  1. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    I agree on the non-standard officers where there needs to be an explanation for their uniforms/lack of proper rank. That makes more sense than just changing a random general.
  2. Nobody145 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2007
    star 4
    Multiple Emperor's Hands make each one seem unimportant, but it probably wasn't that hard to keep Mara in the dark. She's intelligent, but she was also extremely loyal to Palpatine and the Empire, so she never would've had reason to suspect something. The other Hands, well, many of them were extremely ambitious so they might've found out while scheming, but for her, it was just a long string of just missions, helping to make the galaxy a better place, and its not like she would've randomly bumped into most of them while either she or they were leaving the throne room. Not to mention when Mara showed up, she was "just a smuggler" and Thrawn was already intent on remodeling the Empire, so no need for old servants, unless they agreed to work with him.

    I'm personally hoping for a detailed history of the latter stages of the GCW, like when did the New Republic take Kuat, and Ordina is pretty much already on everyone's list anyway, of course.
  3. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    How are 14 people out of trillions of troops "unimportant"? They're an extremely elite unit on that basis alone.
  4. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 5

    You sure you read the book? Because it makes very clear, that nobody dared to oppose her, because she was sitting on the only source of the galaxy's Bacta.

    And concerning the fleets of the member-states, they always existed, even under the empire. Kuat, Corellia and Tepasi have them for certain, why not the economically powerful Diamala? In fact, those could very well make up the majority of the non-human branch of the Imperial Starfleet - the planetary defenses of the alien species, which are part of the empire.
  5. Taral-DLOS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2009
    star 3
    I agree. Especially with the events of the Black Fleet Crisis Trilogy, where the Imperial pilot (Plat Mallar) has a lot of trouble enlisting in the New Republic forces. They didn't recognize him as a citizen because his planet wasn't in the NR, and they didn't recognize any of his flight experience, because none of it was in sanctioned NR schools or facilities, and all of it was in Imperial TIE Fighters and Interceptors. To get in, Admiral Ackbar had to pull a LOT of strings, and even then he was limited to shuttle pilot for a while.

    So it would be good to see exactly how the NR treated former Imperials, as time went on (e.g. 4 ABY vs. 11 ABY vs. 16 ABY etc.)
  6. blackmyron Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    I think it all depended on the circumstances as well - the Rebel Alliance was rife with Imperial defectors. Of course, shortly after the BFC, ex-Imperials were elected into the NR Senate for the first time.
  7. jasonfry VIP

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    Nov 11, 2003
    star 3
    Ah, so the cat's out of the bag. Writing this from the sidelines of a tech conference in Toronto, so apologies that it will be a bit rushed/scatterbrained.

    First off, very happy to make this a thread for suggestions, things you want to see, problems/issues you think would be worth exploring and some crowdsourcing here and there -- working that way was one of the most satisfying parts of the Atlas.

    A little about the book: While it will have plenty of crunchy bits, the intention is to tell the story of warfare in the SW galaxy through shifting perspectives and approaches, many of them in-universe. I thought that worked really well in EG to the Force and hope it will make for a book that appeals to as many readers as possible. (That was one reason for tweaking the title.) I'm still sorting through how to do that without losing a narrative feel and/or making the book feel too much like a scrapbook.

    All plans are subject to change, and I routinely append "as drafted" to anything I say about works in progress, but some of the recurring features envisioned for WARFARE include soldier's stories (which won't be all first-person -- the one for the Zhell/Taungs conflict has a Gilgamesh feel); portraits of great war leaders; discussions of key technologies, ships, weapons and military units; and lessons/overviews of key battles.

    Anyway, it's a daunting project. But I've been having a lot of fun writing it so far and hope you'll like the final result.
  8. Lord_Hydronium Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2002
    star 5
    Glad to hear that Taung/Zhell conflict is being covered, and that gives me hope that other interesting pre-/early Republic stuff will be covered. Those were some of my favorite parts of the Atlas. Any chance we could get a bit of info on the Unification Wars? Those have always intrigued me.

    The other main wishlist item I've had ever since I remembered that this was still on the back burner is some info on Super Star Destroyers. We have a whole mess of ships without classes, classes without pictures, the fourth original Executor-class, and other stuff that I think would be great to get info on.
  9. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    Something I'd really like to see is some clarification on Rebel ground tactics. Things like when they decided to utilize their tanks, artillery, and other heavy but prohibitively expensive equipment, and also how they'd be utilized in a non-game environment. I had a conversation about how they used their T-2Bs and T-4Bs (as well as combat speeders and the like) before on these forums, and I never felt satisified with the answers I got. They never clarified things enough for my liking.

    Another thing would be confirming my suspicions that the Alliance's relative lack of body armor on its ground troops isn't just a symptom of a relative lack of funds compared to the Empire, but also plays into the Alliance's general pattern of thinking, improving surviveability in its forces- the same kind of thinking that led to the proliferation in shielded, hyperspace-capable fighters. I've seen sources stating that Rebel troops, lacking the heavy, restrictive armor of their Imperial counterparts, have used their superior mobility to outfight the better-trained, better-equipped Imperial counterparts, and given the nature of guerilla warfare, it just struck me that superior mobility is actually more helpful to the Rebellion in supplementing their hit-and-run tactics than being better-protected but weighed down in heavy, restrictive armor a la the Imperials.

    After all, the Rebellion rarely met the Empire on open battliefields with ranks of soldiers blasting at one another- Hoth being a big exception- and more often fight aboard ships or in terrain like forests and urban environments that actually reward the more mobile and stealthy side. I'd think the Rebellion's tacticians would have noticed this.

    Finally, while we're on the subject of Rebel body armor, I'd like to know when the Rebellion would decide to send in troops armored in the Assault and other armors from Galaxies. IE, what kinds of tactical situations would the Rebellion decide to equip its troops with such protective measures, with the benefits of being better armored outweighing the cotsts in mobility and from a purely monetary perspective

    What can I say? I have a thing for Rebel troopers, and as I said, my curiousity about warfare in the GFFA far exceeds my knowledge. I'm really looking forward to this helping to clear things up a bit, especially coming from the guy behind the Atlas.

    EDIT: Oh, the above post reminded me of one final thing: I want to know more about the performance of the Executor-class as compared to smaller warships, such as when the Executor would come into her own, or when smaller ships would be more feasible. I recently had a rather interesting discussion about the Exie herself at Endor in the Fleet Junkies thread, and I was wondering when I'd be able to find some more information on the subject.
  10. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    This I like to see! [face_love]

    This is the best chance we have had yet to cover the ACKBAR VS. PELLAEON campaign at the end of the Galactic Civil War.

    Ackbar onboard the SSD Guardian w/ the 3rd/5th fleets VS. Pellaeon's Navy.

    Nuff said.

    --Adm. Nick
  11. XisorIsAlive Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2010
    I would like that to tell the war ssrruvi vs chiss
  12. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    I will sing you praises if you write from the point of view of the Separatists. I'm still waiting for a sufficient explanation for why almost half the galaxy suddenly turned into cackling mustache-twirling villains for three years. That "heroes on both sides" business has barely begun to be explored.
  13. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    I'm glad that it's going to be tackled in an EGTTF fashion with IU perspectives on the stories...

    As for suggestions... outside of Atha Prime's campaign being canonized and including the Battle of Cadinth? [face_mischief]

    Some sort of consolidation of all the various tellings of the Evacuation of Yavin, including Imperial Spy (and taking Missions in to account while doing so), the Goodwin comics, Rebel Strike, Galactic Battlegrounds, Battlefront, Battlefront II, this, that, the other... I'm sure it would be a bit of a nightmare, but I don't like the "dual evacuations" solution... I'm sure there would be some way to work them all together into one evacuation.

    I'd love to see some extrapolation of King Adas's campaign against the Infinite Empire.

    And a thorough look at Admiral Yamarus's campaign with the Liberty Task Force in 3-4 ABY.
  14. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    Sweeetttt... there are now rods man, no words.

    Suggestions, if I may be so bold:
    1. Aquatic warfare!

    2. Development of hyperdrive technology...for example, the first starfighter to have its own built in hyperdrive.

    3. Development of power armor. Namely, why it seems like only the Galactic Empire, specifically the imperial remnant, has this technology.

    4. Melee combat and the use of war animals in a modern battlefeild.

    5. The froce and war.

    Mainly the first two though.
  15. Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2003
    star 6
    Yay! :D

    I would suggest having a section devoted to walkers, given their iconic status in the films and prevalence in the EU. It would be nice to finally have a comprehensive history of the AT-line...

    Also, if you're writing pieces from an in-universe perspective, might I suggest using New Republic General Blake? As far as I know, his only "appearance" is the narrator of the frame story for the Battle of Hoth RPG game in Gamer 6, p46. He's in charge of a New Republic Officer Cadet Training course covering the Battle of Hoth. We know next to nothing about him, besides that he oversaw some historical battle training, so I would recommend him as someone who is ripe for being retconned into a military historian... [face_mischief]
  16. AdmiralNick22 Fleet Admiral of Literature

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    Member Since:
    May 28, 2003
    star 6
    I would love to see an article detailing the evolution of Mon Calamari warships. Basically, starting with pre-Clone Wars designs and working there way through the MC80, MC80a, MC80b, MC90, Mediator, Viscount, heavy carrier, and eventually the Scythe-class battle cruiser.

    Jason, you need to make sure to include pictures of warships that we don't have images before. Us Fleet Junkies could provide you a list in a jiffy. :p

    --Adm. Nick
  17. Xicer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2008
    star 4
    Would it be possible to get some background on, or even give a slight nod to, the carbonite Sith army from Forces of Corruption? Or would LucartArts not allow it, in case they wanted to follow up on the events of FoC for a new game?

  18. blackmyron Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Considering the Hyperspace articles, can we assume that Xim's wars will be touched upon? (And speaking of images of ships, I'd love to see ones of the briefly-mentioned vessels of his era)
  19. Armchair_Admiral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    As mentioned previously, we need more stuff about the heroes of the Seperatist side. For that matter, I'd like to hear more about Republic soldiers who weren't clones like Rom Mohc (I dare say that he probably makes a better soldier than Jango Fett the bounty hunter) and Terrinald Screed (who was said to have once been the Emperor's right-hand man; I would like this relationship explained, like maybe Screed having once been the Chief of Imperial High Command or something). In addition, I want to learn more about the future careers of the starfighter aces from the X-Wing games..... especially that of Ace Azzameen along with his family (what happened to Uncle Antan anyway?).

    Cal Omas doesn't count as a great war leader; tough luck for him. [face_dancing]

    I hope this means we finally learn all about the Mandator. Oh, we need more background on historical clone and droid militaries before the Clone Wars. In particular, I hope that Atha Prime has some sort of connection with the cloning methods that allowed for the GAR's creation, being a Clone Wars architect and all. [face_mischief]

    One final request; can you establish retcons whenever possible so that supposed mentions of OT ships in the NJO-LOTF era actually refer to newer ships that merely happen to have OT-era names slapped to them... like LOTF "A-Wings" being Eta-5s, "Mon Cal Cruisers" being at least MC90 model or newer, "TIE Fighters" actually being mostly TIE Interceptors, and so on?
  20. Havac Former Moderator

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Two evacuations is the only way to get all the evidence to agree. The Rebel Strike/Missions evacuation somewhere within the six months, preferably early, followed by the second, well-documented evacuation at six months that sticks. I think there's even room to have that first evacuation be an abortive effort that gets the ships off the ground before, say, the blockade forces them back down . . . but I'd have to check the sources again.

    Anyway, my number one desire is a comprehensive look at the RA/NR/GA leadership structures. Give us firm fleet commanders and departmental chiefs for them.

    Also, there are some retcons for Wedge's military career just desperately waiting to be made that would clean up a few messes remarkably well.
  21. Xicer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2008
    star 4
    I'd also love to hear more about Vader's good ol' Imperial Navy buddy and apprentice, former-Admiral Vost Tyne. [face_whistling]
  22. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Great to hear the ancient conflicts are gonna get The Essential Atlas treatment. It really seems to be that book all over again, with an increased military focus. It sounds great, TEA is one of my favorite SW reference books because of it's extensive scope and scale.

    Being a Super Star Destroyer buff, I hope to see a Saxton-style collage of ships (preferably to scale), either going from the Light Cruiser from TCW up to the Executor, or with the Ex and Eclipse bookending the page, with all the smaller Republic/Imperial classes inbetween. Same for a Mon Cal/Quarren ship-design page.

    Potential pic ideas for a collage would for me be:
    *Executor-class
    *Eclipse-class
    *Sovereign-class
    *Mandator-class (I or II)
    *Procurator-class (AOTC:ICS)
    *Praetor-class (ITW:eek:T)
    *the Quaestor (ROTS:ICS) (unless it's a Star Battlecruiser of one of the two already-mentioned classes)
    *Jerec's Vengeance (maybe, it's already gotten coverage)
    *the flagship of Admiral Giel (Marvel SW 60-61)
    *the background ship from Dark Empire that isn't just an "indistinct blob"
    *the Allegiance/Imperial-class SSD (DE, DE audio drama)
    *Imperator-class (I or II)
    *Interdictor SD (Dark Horse comics)
    *Tector-class (ROTJ, ROTS:ICS)
    *Venator-class, Victory-class
    *Gladiator-class (Droids, TFUCG)
    *Vindicator-class (SOTG01)
    *Pursuit-class (Marvel SW 18)
    *Republic light cruiser (Grievous Intrigue)
    etc.

    On the Dac side:
    *Viscount-class
    *Mediator-class
    *Subjugator-class
    *heavy carrier
    *the CW-era transport (GG comics)
    *Recusant-class
    *Providence-class
    *Scythe-class
    *Tri-Scythe-class
    *ShaShore-class
    *tanker (ROTJ novel)
    *MC90
    *MC80B
    *MC80a
    *MC80 Liberty type
    *MC80 Home One type (with a comparison of stock model vs. the much larger Home One itself, think Recusant vs. Grievous' destroyer)
    *MC40a (X-wing)
    *MC30c (EAW:FOC)
    *the ceremonial ship (Republic comics)
    etc.

    Of course, if you want to add classes of your own, feel free. You'll hear no complaints on my end!:D

    Of course, my stock wish is for a definition for the various Super Star Destroyer types (dagger-shaped ships larger than Star Destroyers), going from Star Cruisers, through Star Battlecruisers to Star Dreadnoughts. (From ITW:eek:T, SW:CL.)

    And how the average Moff and Sector Commander could have an SSD or more in their arsenal (from Dark Empire Sourcebook) without us necessarily seeing them that much in action.

    Because apparantly, despite knowing that the Empire patrols millions of inhabited and billions of uninhabited systems, lost plenty of SSD ships during the infighting after Endor and lost some to the NR (from SOTGSE), some "confusion" still remains and some expect an Executor or Executor-light every other story.:p

  23. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    The Missions evacuation can easily be delayed. Although Imperial Spy is hampered by Q-7N's presence, he isn't actually seen in the last few panels during the evacuation itself. It could easily be retconed that those last few panels take place a lot longer after the rest of the story. As for Rebel Strike, isn't it only Dodonna's evacuation that directly screws it up? Does he start issuing briefings in later missions? Couldn't he just have been forced back?
  24. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    I like the many suggestions here, especially obscure and rare stuff, early Republic stuff etc. and all that made the chron and atlas awesome already.

    though this is a guide to WARFARE I do hope that this is not half a vehicles and vessels guide, meaning: Ships in art is ok, but I do not want to see ship profiles and the like. this stuff should be kept for a whole future ship guide which we wouldn't get if this guide covers ships too much and since it does only warships we would miss non-war-ships that never get a guide. thus: I am against ships in this guide. people profiles, bios, tales, and strategies as well as art are welcome, and the more obscure something is the better I'd like to see it. Atha Prime, Adas, pre-rep wars, ancient cultures, unification wars, more Cronal, etc. such stuff.

    also I want more light shed on the wars between mandalorians and jedi (the ne ca. 700 BBY one) as well as the retconned Mando civil war and the clone wars if possible. same for more details on EU wars like Pelly vs. Ackbar, second galactic civil war, the time between legacy comics and novels, etc.

    I also want the Mandalorian butchering of the Ithullians covered ;)

    more gree, sharu, rakata, celestial, ancient red sith stuff, etc.

    and for obscurity's sake, some very alien types of warfare. the vong were very alien with biotech, but what about others? (sub)aquatic warfare, blob species, and other extremely alien looking aliens and their warmethods.

    shapeshifteruse in war, or wars by whole shapeshifting species!

    and I want "Ways for nonforceusers to fight forceusers" covered, as well as other odd couples and situations outside the usual scope.

    and a must: Hapan wars including guns of command! as well as SHELL HUTTS!!!
  25. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2001
    star 5
    Yeah, Dodonna continues to give out missions after the Yavin evacuation in Rebel Strike, so that's a problem. Also, we see Tycho defect to the Rebellion in the post-Yavin levels of Rebel Strike...but the Star Wars Missions books have him in Rogue Squadron during the "Darth Vader Returns" arc, which leads into the Classic Star Wars strips that themselves lead into the Yavin evacuation. (This itself contradicts the information given in X-Wing: Wedge's Gamble, which states that Tycho joined right after the Yavin evacuation. Oy.)

    Add to that the completely different evacuation tales of Imperial Spy and Classic Star Wars, and you have a pretty strong case for two evacuations. Even the evacuation tale told within the SW Kids issues doesn't hold up to close examination, as you have Luke and the gang lifting off in the Falcon with (IIRC) Q-7N at the end of Imperial Spy, and then he's nowhere to be seen in the following "Death Star Pirates", which has Luke in his X-Wing and Leia and Han in the Falcon with no Q-7N to be found.

    The two-evacuation scenario isn't pretty, the inclusion of Rebel Strike's levels doesn't jive exactly with "Imperial Spy", and there are still other sources that don't sit well with either story (Star Wars 3-D). But it's still the best way IMO to square all the conflicting information, particularly Dodonna's escape and Tycho's joining-the-Alliance-after-the-evacuation-but-also-before-it problem.

    TC