Lit The Essential Guide to Warfare by Jason Fry and a pseudonymous Scotsman

Discussion in 'Literature' started by whateveritis12, May 17, 2010.

  1. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Hmm, warships are an essential part in any SW conflict. Seems wasteful to not include them and their crews extensively. There's already a book coming out on Jedi and their culture, they can't take up too much space. The Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force already had a lot on both them and the Sith order. Also, what's this about a "future ship guide"? We have plenty of non-military ships in the two rpg series that already exist, I say let this one guide take an extensive inventory of military ones, instead of waiting for something that will probably never come. :cool:
  2. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2005
    star 5
    The beauty of Imperial Spy is that pretty much everything during the main story can be set much earlier on to the aftermath. In fact, Q-7N's line "the Imperials have found us" could refer to be beginning of the Tagge blockade. Rogor flies of and crashes, gets stranded Qorl style, and then it's perfectly feasible that you the last six panels could be totally divorced, timeline-wise, from the rest. It changes the spirit of Imperial Spy, sure, but that's what it gets for not even playing ball with the very books it came packaged with.

    Luke's in the Falcon, and the Rebel fleet is in Hyperspace, but there's no explicit mention that they've just evacuated. And Q-7N is nowhere to be seen. So, in that gap, you can fit in the Goodwin stuff, and Darth Vader's return, Malagarr going kaput, and whatever. Imperial Spy jives well enough if you twist it that way (and... you should be able to since it wouldn't require changing anything in the text itself, just reinterpreting the last pages.)

    It's Rebel Strike that's the real pain in the neck. Is there wiggle room in the game for the Imperial invasion to have been repelled, and a Rebel contingient to have remained at the base while Dodonna and friends evacuate and make it through the blockade, but are ultimately forced to return?
  3. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    I disagree here but that might be just me. The guide got renamed to Warfare away from Military for a reason. so we should not force it back to a military guide. wars most of the time are won by the jedi or politicians and not the soldiers that die in the background of the novels most of the time. they are good at making war but not at ending it. thus warfare guide needs not only military but the focus on other stuff as well and we already got ranks and lots of military covered in the rpg series you mentioned, so no need to do THAT again. lets concentrate on stuff that needs more attention.
  4. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Uh, no, it's still a guide to the military. That's what warfare and military history is all about. I've had enough politics in the Prequels, this is not that, this is a guide to the militaries and their strategies and tools of war, as well as successes and failures in battle. Warships are tools of war so they are more than appropriate. What I've already suggested would just take up two to three pages, out of what, 256 pages, like in TEA? You're right, that is asking too much.:p
  5. KamSolusar Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 2
    I'd definitely like to see a chapter about the role of FTL drives/hyperspace in galactic warfare. Ships, whole fleets and even battlestations can suddenly drop out of hyperspace right on top of you, which surely has a huge influence on space battles and the defense of planets and star systems. We have Thrawn's micro-jump tactics, the Imperial Hyperspace Security Net in the deep core, empion mines, interdictor ships, various tactics involving natural gravity wells and hyperlanes (like Ackbar using the dead-end hyperlane leading to the Treskow system and Ebaq as a trap for the Vong, or Grievous' fleet using secret hyperlanes to attack Coruscant).

    I remember a group of pirates used asteroids to pull cruise ships from hyperspace in Crispin's Han Solo trilogy. Did the military do similar things to prevent enemy ships from sneaking up on them via hyperspace?

    Don't forget Galaxies. Some missions that were part of the Rebel Theme Park had you working for Dodonna and Luke on Yavin. IIRC, it was during the final stage of the evacuation and the last pilots were just leaving the moon. Wookieepedia places Galaxies at 1.5 ABY, but I was never a fan of squeezing every event of the game into that time slot. Some stuff seems to happen close to ANH, some closer to ESB, and some take place shortly before SOTME.
  6. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    For that matter, I'd like to hear more about Republic soldiers who weren't clones like Rom Mohc (I dare say that he probably makes a better soldier than Jango Fett the bounty hunter)

    Jango was a soldier, and a thoroughly excellent one, way before he was a bounty hunter
  7. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    I think I find myself in agreement with CH here in that my personal view is that this Guide should be more about warfare rather than be a place for vehicle stats. Don't get me wrong, I think there should be mention of vehicles/starships/fighters etc but only in the sense in that how they influenced and shaped warfare in the GFFA. Like say how the development of interdiction technology shaped warfare like the creation of the first interdictor ships during the Mandalorian Wars later leading to the technology being developed by the CIS for blockades which in turn saw interdictor ships being used by the Empire. Plus, how the technology was circumvented partially by the creation of HIMS and also how the Yuuzhan Vong used interdiction in the galaxy. Thats personally how I see an integration of technology into a book about warfare. Rather then be stats of the grav-well of an interdictor being shown which will just take up space away from the juicy warfare bit. Again, thats just my opinion on the subject.

    Again another possible topic on technology as how miniature hyperdrives ranging from rings to integrated systems being used by starfighters in space warfare. Or how walkers are employed and shape the battlefield. Another thing is how orbital support aids an army on the field against an entrenced foe as well as the benefits along with the cons of BDZ in a campaign against an enemy. Plenty things on technology influencing warfare in my view.

    I definately want to see some of that. I mean in addition to the YV, I'd like to see some mentions on some of the other galactic powers such as the Chiss and Hapans; how do their methods differ from the others. The Hapans are said in the NJO books to prefer quick devastating first strikes in order to weaken a foe and damage their morale. So they are said to enjoy the typical pirate based strategies but what else? Another race of course I would like to see are the Mandalorian - seems like a book about warfare would be a dream come true for them.

    I am also curious on what possible military unis we might see. Like how Senate Commanos operated with the GAR since Galaxy at War mentions that there was a rivalry between the Senate Commandos and Clone Commandos. Personally, I'm hoping we get to see Imperial Royal Guardsmen in that red battle armour who supported Lumiya :D Please please please [face_praying]

    That would be very nice to see. I recall reading about a NR military unit called Guile Company during the Yuuzhan Vong War which consisted of Clawdites so might be nice to see them being mentioned in the books on how shapeshifters influence the battlefield. Another possible mention for Yuuzhan Vong infiltrators in masquers could be seen here.

    Again, this would be a nice thing to see on how non-Force users take on Force-users
  8. Taral-DLOS Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2009
    star 3
    (bold is mine)

    There's been so little on naval warfare that I'm inclined to say that a description of aquatic and sub-aquatic warfare would be great. We've had naval warfare in games, especially Galactic Battleground and Starfighter, and combat submarines in Clone Wars cartoon and Legacy, and a brief one-off mention of submarines in Enemy Lines II (Han and Leia wanted to deploy subs on a planet to serve as a Resistance movement HQ), but that's it.

    In the end, we've seen Republic, Naboo, Gungan, CIS, Imperial, Rebel (arguably New Republic), Wookiee, Mon Cal, and Sith navies, and need a focus on the navy. Even if it is just one short chapter.
  9. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    No-one's talking about stats, I just want a name, class-name and/or usage. That goes ditto for definitions of various types of SSDs. I'm interested in their deployments, intended usage, actual service record etc. Things that actually have something to do with historic value.:)
  10. Armchair_Admiral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    I hope that the armies of the Hutt clans get covered in this book too. I want to know all about how the Hutts mobilize their slave armies, what war heroes the Hutts had in their history, and so forth. Say all you want about how awesome the Mandolorians are, but the Hutts have always been the third wheel of galactic affairs after the Republic/Jedi and Sith. Ergo, it could be a good idea to expand on the Battle of Dreighton to explain why the Hutts felt compelled to kick GAR and CIS ass. [face_peace]
  11. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 4
    I'm not eager for soldier's stories (if this is supposed to be a guide about "warfare" and not "battles") or portraits of military leaders (belongs in characters). We don't need the POV of the low grunt hiding in some trench complaining about war being a gritty and bloody business and what the kriff were my higher-ups smoking.

    I'm more interested in doctrine, strategy, tactics and logistics of the players. Which are determined by their wants and needs, the tech and resource-base available to them and their cultural mores (Chiss and Yevethans being prime examples of this). Also, how evolved things over time, what changed and why?
  12. Plaristes Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2007
    star 3
    I'd definitely love to see Atha Prime! It'd also be very cool to get more info on the Sith vs. Mando war hinted at in Visionaries. Or how more info about the Battle of Sintheti, where the Sun Guards of Thyrsus and Mando mercs are hired by opposing sides? More info about the Ailon Nova Guard? Force Demons? [face_praying]
  13. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2001
    star 5
    Um, that's pretty much the idea behind having the Imperial Spy/Rebel Strike evacuations be a separate event: the Rebels escape, but are unable to make it through the larger blockade of the Gordian Reach, and are forced into using Yavin IV as a base of operations.

    Trying to place that within Classic Star Wars would break the pacing and narrative drive of the story--you'd have Dodonna saying goodbye to Luke in one panel, assume that he escaped and sat around sending Luke to Dantooine and Raltiir, have Luke return from those missions to the Yavin system, assume that Dodonna was forced to return to Yavin for some reason then have him "suicidally" blow up the base to foil the Empire. That's a lot of wiggle room; inserting days or maybe a week into an event that appears to last less than an hour. Plus there's the retcon presented in TEGTC that states that the promotion Dodonna gave Luke to Commander in Classic Star Wars was never officially logged; which is easier to deal with if we assume that Dodonna never made it off Yavin and only gave the promotion as part of his final minutes in command.

    Even if we assumed that Dodonna left and returned, and that Rogor was running around in the jungle for weeks or months, that still only addresses half the timeline issues here; there's still Tycho's defection to deal with. This happens in the Rebel Strike game following the Yavin evacuation, but in Star Wars Missions Tycho is already flying with Rogue Squadron before Yavin is evacuated. More to the point, that last arc of Missions books actually tie into the Classic Star Wars story, with Vader heading off to Fondor to inspect construction of the Executor during the story. So trying to place those within the last part of the Classic Star Wars story, where the Executor has already been launched, doesn't really work.

    The twin evacuation scenario uses basically the same idea that you're suggesting; that some of the Rebels (in this case most of them, including the Star Warriors) were forced into returning to Yavin, but it has the benefit of not breaking up the Classic Star Wars storyline, addressing the issue of Tycho's defection and Dodonna's successful escape, and maintaining Windham's ties with the Classic Star Wars material.

    There is some precedence for this: we know from GODV that the Rebels returned to Yavin at some point even after the Classic Star Wars evacuation. So there's probably a strategic reason for maintaining a base on Yavin even after the Empire discovered it. (Perhaps the Warfare guide could shed some light on this?)

    It's not a perfect fix, but it's the only one that doesn't create more headaches than it causes.

    TC
  14. Kaxs Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 28, 2009
    star 1
    There's really a ton of stuff they could put in there. I agree they should put in more obscure stuff, like aquatic navies - if they get George R. Binks's type of ship in there somehow, I'll cheer [face_praying] Maybe something on the Rakatan civil war - we really know nothing about it. The military role of Sithspawn during the Hundred-Year Darkness - that would be awesome. The strategic importance of the fringe factions - they're certainly a force to be reckoned with, that's for sure. More on the Hutts' role during the Second Galactic Civil War - we know really nothing about it, especially the GFFA's treatment of Hutt Space afterwards. The third Death Star from Star Tours - an explanation is long overdue. Maybe even try to make sense of the Clone Wars - yeah, I know, it's not gonna happen... [face_frustrated]

    Otherwise, I agree that commanders' bios and technical facts belong in other EGs. More about the organizations themselves, the doctrines, the standard operations, command structures, that kind of stuff would be welcome.
  15. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    R2, Come Home provides a fun opportunity to explain why we usually see Venators and other cruisers in most media and not battleships/battlecruisers. There's discussion of blockading the Hydian Way, which is the huge hyperlane that runs through much of the galaxy. I assume they'd need some heavy command ships to coordinate the actions of individual groups of blockading warships, alá the Inexpugnable-class in KOTOR. That'd be a good job for the Mandator or Praetor or something entirely different.
  16. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

    Manager
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    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    I don't think there's room for anyone to have remained at the base, but there is the possibility of the evacuation being a complete dud that doesn't get past the blockade and has to turn back -- though that would require ignoring Vader and Palpatine's pissed-off "This is only a delay" conversation after the level, or casting it as a comment on the fact that the Rebels haven't been wiped out yet.
  17. Cronal Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2009
    star 4
    Completely forgot about the Yevetha, I definately want to see some stuff on them as well if the Guide explores other races militaries. Also, perhaps how the use of droids have effected the battlefield... from the initial deployment of battle droids from the early Republic down to the CIS Droid Army and to the YVH droids used by the NR/GA.

    EDIT: Also like as mentioned in the post above mine about the use of Sithspawn in battles like the use of Silooths as well as learn a bit more about the early conflicts of the Sith Empire when it was expanding. Maybe even mention the Crucible? Since they were formed to create slave armies for the Sith.
  18. MercenaryAce Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2005
    star 5
    On vehicles: I guess I agree that I think a size comparison chart for MCCs and SSDs would be out of place...

    But I would like to see pictures of the more typical vehicles and soldier types for several armies. Like, hpyothetically, a chart or picture that shows of standard Chiss infantry, Chiss commando, standard APC, standard fighter, standard cruiser etc.

    Also the more important, revolutionary vehicles deserve a mention and an image.

    Course, looking at the Atlas, this thing will probably have almost everything we are asking for and more.
  19. Tzizvvt78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2009
    star 4
    Previous Essential Guides had galleries of vehicles, tools and weapons. Would be appropriate for a military-themed book. Ditto with ground vehicles, troops etc.
  20. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    Something I'd like to see expanded/explained is just what Revan did that made the Republic Military, well, work against the Mandalorians, it can't just be that they became brutal, since the game tells us that that was only the latter of the war when the Mandos were on the run. So what exactly was it that Revan the the Revanchists added to the mix that halted and threw back the Mandalorian Crusaders?
  21. dewback_rancher Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2009
    star 4
    Just had another thought- are we going to get sections on more primitive/non-traditional fighting forces like the Ewoks and the Gungan Grand Army? With Jar Jar as my second-favorite SW character and Wicket as my fifth, I can always stand to read more about Gungan and Ewok weapons and tactics! :D

    And another thought- how about going over the flexibility/rigidity of the tactics of various factions; IE, how well they adapt to new and unexpected situations? I'm thinking things like the Empire's indoctrination that they were superior to 'primitives' making them unable to see the true threat the Ewoks posed until it was too late, or the Rebellion's ingenuity at coming up with new and devastating hit-and-run tactics and weaponry.

    And also, I'm really interested in seeing just what prompted, aside from increased budget, the shift from the helmet-and-flak-jacket combo of the Rebellion's troopers to the full-body armor of the New Republic's troops (as seen in Invasion). Was it the shift in tactics, too (no longer requiring the increased mobility afforded by lighter armor, as they were no longer a guerilla force)? Or was it really just the increased budget they got as the reigning galactic government.

    On that note, I'd really love to see information on the evolution of tactics and weaponry from one institution to its successors, such as the evolution of clone/stormtrooper armor, and the pressures that drove those evolutions. Probably obvious, but that's something I'd like to see.

    While we're on the subject, I'd love to see how the Empire justified to the public that Stormtrooper armor, despite having more advanced electronics, provides less protection than Phase II Clone Trooper armor. It could be part one of the first-person sections, having a retired Imperial propoganda guru talk about, among other things, how they put the spin on that for the public. They could also go over the spin they put on TIE fighter deficiencies such as lack of shields and other such cost-cutting measures. That would definitely be good use of the format!

    EDIT: One final thought- as the EGTW's gallery section, you could have visual representations of some of SW's more standard troop/fighter formations and maneuvers. Not all of us know what a snap-roll is, for example!
  22. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    maybe Revan and Malak trained latent force-sensitive soldiers to use their skills for combat more effectively, or they used battle meditation and similiar skills the Jedi teams in the NJO used.


    ps: another thing for the book: the use of stasis chambers for hyperspace travel when it took longer in the past.. as well as stasis soldiers, cyborgs like Lobot and former criminals cyborged as punishment.

    in short:
    cyborg soldiers
    stasis soldiers
    implants and stims as in KOTOR games that were widely used by all parties, mostly Mandos, but republic and echani also
    carbonite use for warfare. like before stasis carbonite was used to travel in space for loooong periods of time.

    and if ships will be included then (despite them fitting better in a vehicle guide):
    not just the battles with starfighters and ship to ship as we know en masse but:

    special ships designed to RAM others and crash them (some corellian hammerhead blockade runner types as in X-Wing and Tie Fighter Games that flew through several stardestroyers in a shipyard to take them out)
    infiltrator ships like the droid shuttles that pierce the hull in TCW
    shieldships used not only as Lando did but also to protect a fleet from enemy fire.
    needle ships of COPJ and other books
    ships of weird alien species like diminuitive and gigantic species, not just standard humanoid ships.
    Hapan Battle Dragons with rotating canon system and similiar tricks
    torpedo spheres
















  23. Xicer Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2008
    star 4
    Oh, another person I'd like to see mentioned: Admiral Gaarn from Forces of Corruption. The guy (or girl) was important enough to have commanded an SSD.
  24. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Just remembered the list of officer ranks from Galaxy at War, and Grand General is in fact listed, with the same designation as Grand Admiral.
    It is interesting to note that the number of "High Generals" in the Clone Wars evidently was the same as the Grand Admirals - 12. Possibly a coincidence, although it should be noted that Army leaders dominated in the Clone Wars era Republic, while Navy leaders dominated in the Empire.

    As much as I'd like to see a lot of crunchy Fleet Junkie material, a topic as broad as Star Wars warfare (throughout its 25,000 years) wouldn't be able to devote a large array of space to solely capital ships. Although an ships appendix similar to the planetary data in the Atlas would be pretty nifty.
  25. Armchair_Admiral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    But we still have to remember the end of Defender of the Empire where Palpatine states that the Grand Admirals command all Imperial forces. Therefore, I think it's very important to make it clear that the circle of Grand Generals never obtains the same degree of power and exclusiveness as the Grand Admirals.

    Actually, all of the GAR's High Generals came from the Jedi Council..... and according to the (extremely flawed) Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic, there are only supposed to be ten High Generals for each Systems Army. Then again, I hope this new guide simply throws the old GAR Guide and its OOB out of the window due to its excessively arbitrary nature.

    Anyway, I would really like to know why the Jedi in the Clones Wars only gave themselves army ranks while leaving all naval officer positions to non-Jedi, clones or otherwise.