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The EU and Episode III: Revenge of the Sith- Spoilers Allowed

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Gandalf the Grey, Mar 21, 2003.

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  1. LijoT

    LijoT Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2005
    They don't have to be raised by a family. The Jedi don't treat the children with contempt. They are loving, and caring. You can see many orphanages/boarding schools in the real world where the kids live happily and are being cared for quite well, managed by monks and normal people. The Jedi had no issues with emotions, because living as an order doesn't make one's emotions go away. It's a practice that's been in our world for a long time, and still practiced in different parts of the world, esspecially by monks, and there is no doubt about their kindness and joy. The problem with the Jedi was that they were getting arrogant and headstrong, something which should never happen, "even the older, more experienced ones", all the while the Sith were right under their nose and they only realized their mistake by the time the Sith was in control of the galaxy.

    Also, they didn't fail Anakin, Anakin failed them. While it could be said that they could've tried to make Anakin understand, his arrogance and greed was too much at that point that he wouldn't have listened to anyone. Anakin's selfish love turned into greed and jealousy to the point where his ambition was to rule the galaxy. And the Jedi were all focusing on the future too much and not the living force, with Yoda playing a big part here, and Qui-Gon focused on the living force and attained enlightenment, and taught it to Yoda and Obi-Wan, who changes from their old self and focusing with the living force in the OT, and attains enlightenment after their death.
     
  2. Ozzel

    Ozzel TF.N Foreign Book Covers Staff star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    May 14, 2001
    Something just occured to me. When Anakin was put on the Council, was there actually an opening (i.e. someone just died) or did he take somebody's place? 'Cause if so, I'm sure they weren't too happy about it.
     
  3. Sturm Antilles

    Sturm Antilles Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Damn, I never thought of that...

    Well, he already had a seat, immediately after telling Mace he was to be added by Palpatine...
     
  4. Ozzel

    Ozzel TF.N Foreign Book Covers Staff star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    May 14, 2001
    Right, but perhaps somebody didn't show up or couldn't "holo in".
     
  5. chiss_man

    chiss_man Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Didn't he take Oppo Rancsis' seat?
     
  6. Mr Bungle

    Mr Bungle Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 1999
    I believe that was the case, although Oppo was nowhere to be found in AotC...:confused:
     
  7. lightsaber_wielder

    lightsaber_wielder Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2002
    Actually, Oppo Rancisis was in Clones; you can see him when Anakin is receiving instructions from the Council to speak with Chancellor Palpatine about Padmé.
     
  8. Mr Bungle

    Mr Bungle Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 1999
    Would it be possible for someone to post the exchange between Palpatine and Anakin at the opera on Coruscant from the novel? I'd like to see how it differs from the film. Thanks!
     
  9. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    Yoda definitely won that fight. He repulsed Sidious' lightning blow. Only both fell down and couldn't reach each other to continue. Therefore, it was stalemate. But Sidious definitely wasn't the stronger, on movie observation.

    Windu is dead too. He was zapped for a long time.

    Palpatine is saying he was Plagueis' apprentice. Why were people uncertain?
     
  10. dizfactor

    dizfactor Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Didn't he take Oppo Rancsis' seat?

    no. Obi-Wan got Oppo's seat.
     
  11. Mr Bungle

    Mr Bungle Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 1999
    reposting

    Would it be possible for someone to post the exchange between Palpatine and Anakin at the opera on Coruscant from the novel? I'd like to see how it differs from the film. Thanks!
     
  12. Leto II

    Leto II Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2000
    All hail Jim Ward:

    [blockquote][image=http://home.comcast.net/~yeahyeah11/baddad.jpg][/blockquote]
    ...Oh, wait.
     
  13. Durnar

    Durnar Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Im sure Obi Wan was on the council before Oppo died.
     
  14. Tam_Elgrin

    Tam_Elgrin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2004
    He was, as shown in [gah] Clone Wars vol 2.
     
  15. Esplin9466

    Esplin9466 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2002
    I thought Anakin replaced Even Piell.

    What ever happened to the poor little Lannik? [face_worried]
     
  16. Jikit

    Jikit Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Why did Anakin want to become a master to save Padme. Why did he turn to the Sith to save Padme. Why did anakin want to rule the Galaxy. Because if you think back Padme said she wanted the war to end and for there to be peace. (In a republic of course.) So Anakin wanted to give that to her. Thats why he said we can make the galaxy however we want. Anakin's mind was poisened I agree. But think about it while the Jedi were all ways looking down on him Palp gave him advice and was kind. Anakin tried to do the right thing. He handed over a Sith Lord to be arrested. And he tried to do things the right way Mace wouldn't lissen so he cut of the mans harm to stop him. BUT... Thats all he wanted to do was stop him then Palp's lightings him. So Anakin wasn't really evil after he became Vader there were to differnt Anakins The one we Call Anakin (good) who morned the Childeren Vader killed. And the one we call Vader who kills everyone in sight. After Maces death Anakin spilt in two. And well Anakin was to weak to fight of Vader. After Padme died the good Anakin died (Well was almost completly dead. Vader was in full control. Its a theory that alot of people agree with. I'm just saying I belame Vader not Anakin. Anakin got to got with Yoda and Obi-wan and Vader got to go to Hell. :)
     
  17. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Can someone do me a favor? I don't have my copies of ROTS onhand, but could someone post the conversation between Obi-wan and Yoda from the novel where they discuss possibly teaming up to take on Palpatine?
     
  18. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    Do you mean this little snippet when Yoda and Obi-Wan are dividing Sith-killin' responsibilities?
    "True," Yoda said. "But both of us apart, a chance we might [i]create[/i]..."[/blockquote][hr]

    That's the only reference to Obi-Wan/Yoda vs. Palps I could find.>
     
  19. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    That's what I was looking for, thanks.
     
  20. Excellence

    Excellence Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002

    I found the best moment in the movie---aside from Artoo's inventive takeout of the droids---to be Ewan asking Yoda to send him after Sidious, late in the movie.

    How awesome was that?
     
  21. Vos_Quinlan

    Vos_Quinlan Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    I think Anakin had Empire rule already in his mindset when he had conversation with padme in the fields on naboo.Where he was assigned by Palpatine to be "guarding" her in Attack of the Clones. Because the Jedi had made mistake of separating Anakin early from his mother, he was subject to alot of fear and thus prime for Palpatines influence early on as he noticed him at the end of Phantom menace where he says he will watch him with much anticipation. You can't help but think that the Jedi were influenced to send all jedi they could to Genosia, and not even detect the plot to destroy the jedi order until Episode 3 When Palpatines plan had come to fruitation and he let the cats out of the bag.
    What boggles the mind is that there were mysterious circumstances for the creation of the Clone army, and references to Darth Sidious?..Yoda went to the Clone labs to muster the army, but you would think they would do further investigation into the clones to discover the secret orders or even shut them down. Little too convenient tool to become available when the Federation Crisis begins, Dont have to be a jedi to see that theres something wrong going on at this stage of the game.I thought it was nice touch at end of Episode one at Qui-gons funeral pyre, Windu and Yoda speculate who was killed, the sith master or the apprentice, and Palpatine was right there listening. I bet he was laughing so hard inside lol..


     
  22. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    The novel explains this a bit. Anakin realises it was never Vader who did all the killing, it was him, as he becomes the suited Vader we love. And he wanted to become a master so he could research the information about Plagueis the Wise. Much information was restricted to Masters in the Temple...

    Anakin's logic, despite being somewhat twisted, makes sense and is justifiable right upto the point he declares his want to become emperor to Padme. Then he's gone dark. in my opinion.

    Before that point, we see tears for him killing the CIS leaders brutally, and horror at his attack on Mace....after he goes evil, and indeed injures Padme, we watch as Anakin dives deeper into the dark side, his face visibly changing and becoming more paler even before Obi dices him up....
     
  23. Card_Dreamer

    Card_Dreamer Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    That's only partially right. True the Jedi don't need to be raised by biological family, but, it was strongly suggest, and I agree with the premise, that they needed a little more of a "family" setting. Not living at home, eating supper with a mom and dad per say, but the kind of interaction that can be found there. It's one thing to treat them "lovingly", but another to treat them "with love". It may sound weird on papaer, but any real parent would understand that.
    The Jedi kept themselves TOO distant. Obi-Wan wasn't supposed to love Anakin like a brother. The Jedi aren't supposed to have those kind of attetchments, meaning, they can't love, even in a family manner. Another example is Yoda telling Anakin to let go of the person he sees dying.
    Yoda doesn't know even how the person is dying. If Anakin say it was more akin to old age, and simply that person's time, well, it's one thing. But anakin saw pain, hurt, and never told Yoda is was childbirth. My first question as Yoda, would have been to ask if they were being tortured or attacked. In their times, with a Sith still being hunted for, you'd think he'd see if there was some kind of connection....
    But teaching children, future Jedi, to let go anyone who might die; no morning, no grief, and just "let them go", it doesn't really fill one with a sense of Love. Sure, they're provided a roof over their heads, food, conforts, and being taught the Jedi arts. That's all great, but even Jedi need a little bit more than that.
    Couple that with Dooku's comments about a Jedi being abandoned; "a child their parents didn't want", well...it's strong and I'm surprised more didn't turn away than what had...



    Actually, they failed each other. And some of the JEdi's failings, are the most obvious and stupid ones.
    The biggest is Anakin's dream aout his mother. He's having the SAME dream for MONTHS, and it's not told to the council, and Obi-Wan shrugs it off, "Dreams pass in time". What crap is that? My first reaction to a reacurring dream would be to wonder if it was a Force Vision.
    Anakin is still learning at this point in time. Maybe that's why he didn't go to Yoda like he did in RotS. To me, RotS's scene, going to Yoda himself about the Vision, was his learning from the mistake in AotC. If you keep having the same dream, go to somoene who knows something, not somone who just shrugs it off.
    Just imagine had Obi-Wan acted, or at least pursued the dream more, how Anakin might have turned out.

    RotS novel even goes more into how the Jedi failed. Holding anakin back with no reason other than wanting to use him, especially with the Jedi Master ranking. He had fully earned it, as they admitted to themselves, but would no grant it to him. Had they simply been upfront with Anakin, explained their hesistations, or explain their distrust of Palpatine a little more, Anakin wouldn't have kept getting angry with the council, wouldn't have had so much hate of being held back, decieved or left out.

    And perhaps the biggest mistake the Jedi made, was constantly telling Obi/Ani that he WAS the Chosen One! "Only he can bring balance!" "He's
    the Chosen One!", "Powerful is young Anakin!" "Exceptional skills!"

    If you're gonna keep throwing it up to the kidm filling him with a potential galactic ego, then let him grow at the rate of someone who fills the roles you as the council are putting him in! Instead, it was "Yes, Anakin you are everything we say, but we want to ignore that for now. Pretend you don't hear it."
    I can understand a humbling aspect to it. "Yes, you have gr
     
  24. razzy1319

    razzy1319 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2004
    they were acting more like politicians rather that jedi... huh, thats quite a role reversal i discovered.
     
  25. Card_Dreamer

    Card_Dreamer Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    /bump

    this was getting good, let' snot let it die
     
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