main
side
curve

Lit The EU Apocrypha - Using New Material to Expand the Expanded Universe

Discussion in 'Literature' started by blackmyron, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2017
    Tbh, given the raw enormity of the Galactic Civil War, and the immense number of civilian casualties, I can't see the NR turning down any possibility for peace.
    Speaking of, I'm still miffed that we never learned who the actual Guardian of Tantiss - the one ol' Joruuuuuuuuuuus killed - was. That was an enormous dangling plot-hook from a pretty influential EU piece that was just begging for a RPG adventure book or something. My own personal theory, for whatever it was worth, was that it was Legends' Maul, but that's just my own thoughts.
     
  2. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Didn't they make it official that Joruus was the Guardian and just started claiming he had 'killed' him because he was nuts? I know it wasn't Zahn's original intention, but since when has that mattered?
     
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  3. comradepitrovsky

    comradepitrovsky Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2017
    The Wook says otherwise, but take that as you will.
     
  4. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Was this never established in the old EU? I feel like I remember this being talked about years and years ago, but I can't remember if it was ever something official, or just speculation that came up after Outbound Flight seemed to set the seeds for it.
     
  5. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I had thought that the story was that Thrawn had violated their principles by engaging in a pre-emptive strike - admittedly it's been a while since I've read it.
     
    Darth_Duck likes this.
  6. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2005
    I'm still making my way through Thrawn, so I don't know how exactly it's addressed there yet, but in the old EU, the story was that after Outbound Flight, Palpatine reached out to Thrawn on at least two occasions, but the latter couldn't honorably leave his post. He finally engineered his own downfall by committing a second preemptive strike against a weapons manufacturing installation, which resulted in his exile leading up to Mist Encounter.
     
  7. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    So, I've been following up on the whole Zann Consortium, as I suspect that in the EUA the "Sovereign Latitudes" are Tyber Zann's territory. In NewCanon, they are briefly mentioned in Empire's End as being the territory of a pirate that took over the SSD Aggressor - that's the SSD that gets destroyed at the Battle of Kuat in the final level of the Forces of Corruption DLC for Empire at War, so we've got our tie-in right there. The novel, however, doesn't really give any clues to where it might be.
    There was never much about the Zann Consortium outside of the game in the EU, but we've gotten a little more from FFG's post-Disney RPG material - namely, the published adventure Mask of the Pirate Queen where the players are hired by the Consortium in their war on a rival criminal organization. Much like in the video game, their HQ is said to be on Ryloth, and their influence over planets in the Outer Rim, including Hypori and Saleucami. In the video game, one of their first operations is on the planet Shola.
    With Saleucami an outlier, we have a salient anti-spinward from Hutt Space, and rimward from Bothan Space, where there is little activity during the early days of the NR - the only major battle in the region is at Rothana, which was probably outside of Zann's sphere of influence. (Saleucami itself ended up in the Greater Maldrood Sector. Zann probably still maintained his operations there, but did not outright try to claim it). Ryloth was probably a bit hot to maintain as an HQ, so he probably moved it to Shola or Hypori.
    With his shipyards producing capital ships that could rival the local Imperial and NR forces, he may have made a play to carve out a 'neutral' space similar to Hutt Space. Naturally, the Consortium wouldn't waste time with governance, preferring to concentrate on their criminal operations and making sure the planets under their 'protection' cough up their share of 'protection money'. I also suspect that Zann probably helped Zsinj maintain his illusion as a 'breakaway region' (which I postulate to be the Corporate Alliance that was listed as one of the neutral states in Empire's End) by being his supplier.
    There's a minor allusion to the defeat of Zann's fleets in one of the online supplements of the WOTC RPG, prior to the rise of Admiral Daala. Looking at the maps of Thrawn's campaigns, it is clear that he was operating in the same region as Zann's suspected territory. No doubt that Thrawn never forgot his encounter with Tyber Zann during the Galactic Civil War, and made a successful effort to break his power in the region, ending his reign. (If not Thrawn, I would imagine that Palapatine would've been pretty annoyed with all the stuff that he stole from the Eclipse and would've made sure to finish him off).
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  8. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Aggressor is not the SSD in EaW:FoC, it is Annihilator, sadly.

    Otherwise, I mentally retconned it so Zann’s Fleet was assisting Zsinj at Kuat, and yes, Thrawn smashed him. Which gives him territory in the Northern Dependencies but it’s not precisely going to be a given.

    A pirate nation in Wild Space is a fiddly one to reconcile, if you want direct reconciliation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    blackmyron likes this.
  9. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    "Aggressor" was my mistake - It is Annihilator in the game.
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  10. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Onwards to the second 'other' realm mentioned in the Aftermath series - the New Separatist Union.

    I've been a proponent for years in the EU days of former Separatist systems that wouldn't want to join the New Republic, for obvious reasons - so I was glad to see this (even if it wasn't developed in any form in the series, and I'm not holding my breath for it ever to be mentioned again).

    The theoretical location of the union is a little easier to pin down. There were three primary areas that were part of the CIS in the Clone Wars. The area near the Western Reaches were among the first territories liberated by the New Republic, and would be unlikely. The area around Muunlinst was under Imperial control almost the entire time. That would leave the "Foundry" area near the Tion Cluster.
    Now this region was under the control of Teshik and Zsinj in the early days; however, there's a nice transition to the area being in the "Borderlands" by the time of the Thrawn trilogy; the region also doesn't play much of a role in the later days (at least until the NJO era), leaving an insertion for the "New Separatist Union" coming up. Some of the likely key worlds:
    Sy Myrth - One of the last holdouts of the Separatists, involved in the post-Clone Wars campaigns by the Empire. (Note that Chad III - in the same sector - has a NR Senator in later days).
    Felucia - Former HQ of the Commerce Guild, and in the Thanium Worlds where a strong tradition linked to the Tionese probably dampened enthusiasm for the Republic in any incarnation.
    Metalorn - HQ of the Baktoid Armor Workshop and a Techno Union world. Another world that wasn't taken until the early Imperial campaigns.
    Jabiim - Jabiim had a strong legacy of going against the Republic; and later, during the GFFA days, joined the Confederation.

    Much like the original CIS, there's nothing to say that the boundaries would have to be continuous.

    Ultimately, I would assume that the NSU would end up joining the GFFA, especially since the Vong invasion did sweep through the hypothetical 'core' of their region.
     
  11. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Related to both that topic and the idea of combining aspects of the EU and NEU, in Planet of Twilight, Leia mentions that she had to engage in diplomacy with a faction called the "United Separatists" at one point. Obviously that's another term for the New Separatist Union. I actually always thought it was a waste that someone like Luceno or Fry never used that one-off mention from PoT to develop the idea of a neo-Confederacy after ROTJ.

    On a broader note, I'm going through some of the classic Marvel comics, and in the Teezle storyline, it made me laugh that Luke and Chewie go off on a mission to infiltrate an Imperial data storage vault on a remote planet. Obviously Scarif and Krake's Planet were part of the same plan to keep vital records off of Coruscant.
     
  12. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    As an aside, we do have twenty percent of the galaxy which is neutral of the on-going conflict with the Empire and warlords in Rogue Squadron - shall we assume that is the defanged Imperial state that obeys the Concordance?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    blackmyron and Daneira like this.
  13. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Again, the Wook says that some sources say otherwise. It's not the word of the Wook, but that of the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia... and Zahn himself. To be exact, both The Dark Force Rising Sourcebook and the old Databank used to say "it is more likely" that C'baoth was the sole guardian, which is not a strong confirmation. Eventually, the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia in 2008 outright said C'baoth and the Guardian were distinct people. And here's what Zahn himself says about this issue in Heir to the Empire: The 20th Anniversary Edition: "My original reasoning was just what’s laid out here: that whomever Palpatine had left to guard his storehouse had been killed by Joruus C’baoth when he somehow stumbled on the place." He adds that he was surprised it caused a controversy.
     
    blackmyron and Iron_lord like this.
  14. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    What is the source of this 20% figure?
     
    Sinrebirth likes this.
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Rogue Squadron page 66:

    "Three in ten worlds are in open rebellion and perhaps another twenty percent are nominally supportive of our fight, but half the worlds are still firmly allied against us."
     
  16. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I love it when I’m asked a question and someone else replies. Seriously, I do. It’s brilliant.

    Heart you, Iron_Lord!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    That's a great find! That would seem to support the idea that they never joined the NR, but later joined the GFFA. (The Tion Cluster was said to have just joined prior to the Vong invasion).
    I wonder if Thrawn simply ignored the resurgent Confederacy, deducing that their dislike of both the Republic and the Empire would keep them firmly neutral.
     
    Dr. Steve Brule, Vthuil and kalzeth like this.
  18. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I feel like Snoke would be an avatar of Abeloth if he existed in the EU.
     
    kalzeth, blackmyron and PCCViking like this.
  19. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    I still say he's Cronal. The theatricality is almost straight out of LSATSOM. And IMO, Snoke's death is a better way of finally finishing him off than the completely random Perek thing.
     
  20. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    And being as Cronal connects to Old One cults and powers, it actually elevates Snoke, especially with the pre Republic Dwartii reference.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    I did appreciate the Dwartii reference showing up in Hildago's Propaganda book (although IIRC, it was retained in the NewCanon edition of Complete Locations anyways).
     
    ObiWanKnowsMe and darklordoftech like this.
  22. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    he looks just like Cronal. its crazy. They are so similar story wise also (based on what we've seen from snoke)
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  23. blackmyron

    blackmyron Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Interesting that the new TV show will be only 3 years ABE. Somehow I doubt they're going to run with (or even acknowledge) the throwaway references to 'other nations' in Aftermath. Ah, well.

    I suspect that I'll have my work cut out for me with the Solo movie. The main point of the EUA is that for the EU universe, EU lore gets primary consideration; I sincerely doubt that the Kessel Run (among others) is going to remotely line up, so it'll probably be picking bits and pieces out rather than actually attempting to make the story fit (as I'm attempting to do with Rogue One).
     
    kalzeth likes this.
  24. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I've said it in the 'One Canon' thread: the Solo movie is the 'Han Solo and the Pirates of Kessel' holofilm that Luke was groaning over in the Battle of Mindor. Han got royalties from this film with young actors portraying himself and Lando, and Chewie starred as himself.
     
  25. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    That feels like a cop out for both of these projects, just to dismiss something in advance of actually seeing it and knowing what happens.

    Sent from my SM-G386W using Tapatalk
     
    DarthJaceus likes this.