Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Asharak, Mar 5, 2012.
Life is pointless yet it is interesting.
I love the entire Saga, especially what the Clone Wars multimedia project adds to the PT, so I absolutely complete and totally disagree.
I am completely ignoring how it portrays the Clone Wars, well, at least not letting it change how I perceive the Clone Wars. I have no interest whatsoever in TCW, but somehow I am supposed to, because it is now intended to be the definitive story of the Clone Wars. What am I supposed to do, act like TCW doesn't exist? I already act like TCW doesn't exist, out of respect for the Clone Wars stories I enjoy, but that still won't solve anything; so I complain about what the osik that is TCW does, and try to educate those who may not know how ridiculous what TCW is doing really is.
Please, stop saying that. Just stop. You've said it before, and keep circling back around to it any time the discussion turns in this direction. When you tell someone that they can just ignore the series, you show a fundamental lack of understanding in the Star Wars universe. There is no ignoring it. It's not a niche book series that sits in its own corner of the universe with a cast of characters no one else is interested in and can do whatever it likes because it's so thoroughly removed from everything else. It's a mainline series, capable of making sweeping changes to any contemporary work set during the era, and occasionally even bleeding into other eras. There's no ignoring it. You can not watch, cover your eyes and plug your ears, but at the end of the day it's still altered everything around it. It's simply impossible to ignore it. Like a black hole, you may not be able to see it, but you can feel and observe the effects.
Sorry but if you were really acting like TCW doesn't exist you wouldn't post on this part of the forum. You've managed to contradict yourself in your post. Complaining about TCW constantly isn't acting like it doesn't exist.
It is also very offensive to me that you think that those who dare to like TCW as needing 'educating'. You should accept that others enjoy this show for what it is and can put their issues with continuity aside.
I enjoy a lot of the multimedia project and yet I am creating my own timeline. You are free to make up your own choice. In my own mind I am fitting all the various things I like about the multimedia project and TCW into my own version of how the war should have gone regardless of what Lucasfilm wants.
TCW doesn't exist to me, but that doesn't mean I act like everything is alright.
I don't think so. I know people who hate the PT, so they don't count it as part of Star Wars. Some people who think Dark Empire kills ROTJ ignore it to preserve their view of ROTJ. Some people who thought the micro series showed the Jedi as too absurdly powerful to be believed don't count it as part of the saga. There's absolutely no reason someone couldn't do the same with TCW. If you hate it that much, just don't count it and stick with what you liked better. TCW can no more ruin the EU than the PT can ruin the OT. Only if someone lets it because they're more focused on what they hate than what they like.
If it were simply a matter of people having certain knowledge rather than of tastes, that goal would have been easily accomplished by now, but it's not. Just like me imparting unto you the knowledge that massive retcons have been the story of Star Wars since the very beginning didn't change your opinion.
I see two completely different things between what the OT did as it developed, what the PT did to the EU, and what TCW is doing to the Clone Wars. The PT didn't make massive retcons, the primary thing it did was change the dating on the Clone Wars by sixteen years, when very little was known about what happened during the Clone Wars. There is no precedent whatsoever for completely changing how events happened in an established time period of works, which is what TCW is doing to the Clone Wars multimedia project and its derivatives.
What is this "multimedia project" you speak of?
If you are giving me a hard time I am not going to answer...
No, I seriously have no idea what you're talking about.
You're wrong about that and I've given the examples to prove it in the past. But my intention was not to relitigate that debate which we've already had, but to point out that simply adding important informational context to a situation doesn't magically make everyone agree with you. You actually just proved that by leaving facts I've previously given you out of your case which would disprove it. I think I speak for many of us when I say, we don't need your education.
The Clone Wars multimedia project is primarily the six Clone Wars novels and the Republic comics set during the Clone Wars, written in the interim between AotC and RotS. Things like the Dark Lord Trilogy and the Republic Commando series are derived form that original timeline outlined by the Clone Wars novels and comics.
So everything with Anakin being a Padawan is now condensed into the first few months of the war. That's radical.
All these EU now takes place in the first few months of the Clone Wars:
Star Wars: Republic issues 49-67
The Cestus Deception
Medstar I & II
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Micro series chapters 1-21
That's a lot of stuff.
And all of those works JackG just listed cover the first two and a half years of the war. Now everyone should understand why I am so upset.
Like I said, they're all reaaaally busy.
That really doesn't seem like a very long list. Is there any compelling reason why it absolutely had to take 2.5 years for that few books and comics?
Because many of the battles depicted in those works, especially the comics, went on for several months by themselves.
For example the battle of Jabiim (just a few issues of the mentioned Republic comic) is over a month long in itself.
The Clone Wars multimedia project covered the Clone Wars so completely, its absurd to think most of the multimedia project could happen in a matter months.
But is there any reason why those battles had to last that long other than filling up a certain amount of space on the timeline?
It's annoying, it requires a good bit of suspension of disbelief, but I'm willing to give the whole thing the benefit of the doubt. The main issue is specifically Anakin and Obi-Wan, and how those two guys managed to take on the load they did in such a compressed period of time. Shatterpoint and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous have more wiggle room when it comes to their placement, since they don't primarily feature either of the pair, except for a brief appearance near the end of Y: DR. The Medstar duology, by nature of Barriss Offee's progression from Padawan to Knight, must take place during the show, at a point following the Second Battle of Geonosis. I'm aware she showed up for a cameo in the Umbara arc, but there's nothing to say she was still a Padawan at the time. Most of the Republic comics aren't Anakin or Obi-Wan centric, allowing some breathing room there, with only the First Battle of Kamino and the Battle of Jabiim taking up any real amount of time.
The first season of the micro series is definitely pre-TCW, and that works alright. The only thing that really dealt with Anakin and Obi-Wan was the Battle of Muunilist and the duel on Yavin 4. Didn't seem to be more than a day or two there. Everything else can be moved around accordingly as it deals with non Ani-Obi characters. Jedi Trial was a brief conflict, if I remember right, and although it seemed to drag on for me, The Cestus Deception wasn't longer than a week or so, also if I remember right.
Do I? How?
Yes, there is.
Again, yes there is. Just because it's official doesn't mean you have to accept it. The future writers and other people do, but not us. Unless you want to. But if you want to, it's your choice and you have to accept the consequences of that choice. Canon contradiction and retconning is nothing new, and George always had the final say in the matter. Why people react differently to this is beyond me.
hlc88 has already said it, but who are you to decide that those who like and accept the series need any kind of education? Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean other have to. Just because you think it's ridiculous (how ironic, why come here then?) doesn't make it a fact. And how can you say that you already don't care and at the same time keep coming to a TCW forum/thread/whatever and talk about it? All that shows is how much you care.
Again, contradicting yourself. If it doesn't exist to you, then what's the problem?
_ _ _
Now back to the timeline.
Uh...how about...no. People who can't be bothered to read the entirety of the posts they're replying to, and/or comprehend the points detailed therein, do not get to be dismissive and have the last word. Sorry.
Oh I don't know, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with what I just posted :
You have to accept it because—oh right, what I just posted!
The show is not self-contained. Its influence bleeds outward onto everything. There are people who haven't watched a single episode of TCW, and yet lo and behold, here comes some Mortis business right in the middle of the Fate of the Jedi novels. Didn't matter that they never watched the show, it still showed up, unannounced.
People want to care. They want a good Star Wars show that doesn't randomly piss on everything that came before it. They want Lucas to take the quote "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants" to heart, to understand and respect them. They want what has largely been a largely mediocre show across its run to be a truly magnificent one. They want good Star Wars, and the want to care. That's why people who don't like it still post here. There's the hope that maybe, just maybe, tomorrow they'll be pleasantly surprised.
And who are you tell anyone where and how they should post? Who are you to decide what opinion is and isn't allowed here? You denounce what you see as hypocrisy, and then rampantly participate in it.