The extent of the emperor's influence on the saga

(this is partly a repost from another thread here, but there are issues I want to explore, mentioned after the dividing line)

I think that the saga can also be understood as the journey and struggle of the emperor (Palpatine, or whatever his original/real name is) to control all. Ultimately a failure, but it was a wild ride. Death takes us all.

Before watching RotS, I had seen the OT as "about" Luke and the PT as "about" Anakin. Then I watched RotS and some things occurred to me. What I got more was (and maybe this is too simple and straightforward) is that this is all the story of how the Sith tried to take everything over and how they were eventually stopped. It is said that this is a conspiracy that was centuries in the making. Some things are cleared up after RotS:

1) Anakin was created by Darth Plagius the Wise, who was (probably) the emperor's mentor.

2) following from 1, we have Sidious knowing about Anakin as a child/infant. I suspect and posit that Schmi was sold into slavery to make sure she didn't go anywhere, specifically sold to a Toydarian **on purpose** so her Force-adept child wouldn't walk all over him. I assume Sidious thought it important to keep Anakin away from the Jedi for as long as possible.

3) Padme "lost her will to live". I think this was again the emperor at work, just I think the emperor kept Anakin alive after the limb-severing and the burning. Palpatine said that Plagius knew a power to keep those he cared about from dying... and that he'd taught this power to his apprentice (again, I theorize this apprentice was Palpatine). That would mean Palpatine knew how to keep someone alive. Anakin was bad off. The emperor, as soon as he recovered from the fight with Yoda, realized this and began concentrating on the situation. It seems to me reasonable to assume that if the emperor could keep someone alive through Force, that he could exploit a weakness and kill them through it too. I'm reaching here, but I figure he snuffed out Padme while he was at it.

4) If 3 is true, then it seems reasonable that Sidious knew about the twins. He was killing her, but he didn't do it so quickly that she couldn't give birth. And then it was Sidious (in ESB) who knew and informed Vader that Anakin had a son. He knew, so you have to wonder how long he's known. I believe he knew from birth. Padme was of no use to him - she would only compromise Anakin's loyalty to him. But the children, especially down the road (and let us not forget how long a view the emperor was taking for things) - they might be useful indeed. As blackmail if nothing else.

5) Something else about 3, that ties in with 4, is that the emperor told Yoda that Darth Vader would be more powerful than either of them. The Sith love power, but they also have to fear that nasty Sith tendency to off your master and sieze his power. If Sidious could have arranged for Anakin to get all cut up and nearly dead, then Sidious would have a wonderful situation where only his own power kept Darth Vader alive - making it impossible for Vader to kill him and survive. Which is what we saw in the RotJ - Darth Vader killed the emperor, and then he was done for. Luke, who withstood a lot longer period of Force lightning, recovered just fine (more or less). Darth, on the other hand, knew his fate was sealed. I think it was the emperor who was keeping him alive ever since the accident on Mustafar.

6) A somewhat unrelated point, though it ties into the whole "Saga as a story about the emperor" thing, is the clone troops. They were commissioned 10 years before the events of AotC. Note the careful timing - they were ready to use about the time Anakin became an adult. If you've bought my theory that Anakin was deliberately created by Darth Plagius (probably in an attempt to create a more powerful servant), then it is a simple matter to have the clones started right on time. The clones were commissioned by a Jedi (Sifu Dyas - I know nothing about him otherwise) and the cloners were told by Darth Tyrannus to expect him. That establishes a clear link b

 

Well, aside from me thinking that the legends about Plageuis are mostly bs, I'd agree. Although I'd start the conspiracies about the clones and Anakin starting at the battle of Naboo, which showed three things:

1. Biological troops(the Naboo) are certainly on-par with droids, and not as susceptible to sabotage.

2. Anakin Skywalker is a late arrival to the Force, and is potentially extremely powerful.

3. Sidious needs a new Apprentice.

From here to AOTC:

-Quietly groom Anakin to be your future Apprentice. Have Count Dooku be the Apprentice in the meantime. One might even go so far as to say that a Force-sensitive Apprentice isn't strictly necessary right now-all one needs is a sufficiently charismatic political type to be your proxy and form the Seperatist movement. However, since Dooku is both 1) an adept politician and 2) a Force-user of a remarkable level, he fills both roles nicely.

-Sidious learns of Sifo-Dyas' plans for the clone army (Labyrinth of Evil. Have Dooku kill his friend Sifo to bind him to you forever. Ensure the Jedi do not learn of Kamino or the clone army.

-Steadily approve new laws that would enrage poverty-stricken Outer Rim worlds and rich corporations. Have Dooku entice them into forming a Seperatist movement. Appear diplomatic publically, but have your proxies in the Senate push things ever closer to war.

AOTC

-Arrange for Padme to be in danger, and have Anakin & Obi-Wan protect her. Ensure they split up, so Anakin is assigned the easy mission of protecting Padme while Obi-Wan is sent off to go hunt down the assassins. This way, he does what he wants.

-Let the Clone War begin. "Reluctantly" accept emergency powers to protect the republic.

Clone Wars

Gradually gather more and more power as you and Dooku control how the war goes. Make sure it remains largely a standstill until the time is right, and then...

ROTS

Decapitate the Separatist leadership. Have Anakin kill Dooku in cold blood to start him on the path to Vader. Split Obi-Wan & Anakin up once more so you can get your hooks into Anakin more easily.

Reveal yourself as the Sith the Jedi are looking for. Make it look as if the Jedi have turned traitor so you can completely exterminate them. Make Anakin think he's doing the right thing by joining you, and presto: Galactic Empire.

 

1) It was never stated that Plageuse ever used his power to create Anikan(not that it ever said he was created this way, but it seems implied), but he did teach his apprentice(implied, again, as Palpatine), who most likely used it to create Anikan.

2) I never thought of it like this, and it's a very, very good theory!

3) Eh... this is where your theories begin to lose some of your vigor. As some bright individual on this sight commented- it seems she no longer wished to live because she was the reason Anikan was like this, and felt she was responsible for his exploits of the Emperor and the Senate, and wanting to take over and all that.

4) Uh... no, I don't think so. Then Vader would have known of Leia before hand, and I think he genuinely figured it out during ROTJ.

5) I'm sorry, but again, it just doesn't seem like Palpatine has THIS much control over events, sure he could get Obi-Wan to go and fight someone... but I hardly believe he could set this up... And while he may have kept Vader alive on before the suit, I think the thing that ultimately killed Vader was the Force Lightning. Did you see what that did to Palpatine's face? I'm pretty sure Luke was being protected by the Force, to fulfill the prophesy.

6) Palpatine was given emergency powers so he could create a Clone Army, which he did, so he was basically their ultimate leader. They must have been aware of Order 66 before this point. And weak minded? If you have seen AOTC, CW, or ROTS, you would know they are not at all weak minded, just very easily ordered by their masters.


I believe the only thing keeping Shmi alive was her need to see her son one last time. "Now I am complete..." After she saw him she, like Padme, had no more will to live.

 

Darth Plagius the Wise acting as Anakin's creator is an interesting theory that has been bounced around since before the film came out.

What I don't like about it, is that it would mean he was alive nine years before Menace--something I don't believe to be true. Palpatine is an old man and has been around for a long while. It is also implied that Darth Maul was trained from birth to be the apprentice (he had to be at least in his 20s.) We also know they can only be two sith so it is logical to conclude that Plagius was killed at least 20 years before Menace, and probably even longer before that.

So if anyone created Anakin, it would be Sidious. Though I'm not even sure if I believe that. The Jedi use "the will of the force" to explain things which they are ignorant of, in a similar fashion, I will use it to explain what I'm ignorant of--the birth of Skywalker.

As to the extent of the Sidious influence, he shapes most of the major events of the prequel trilogy and return of the jedi. He is the architect of all the plans and schemes and in the end he controls it all. The galaxy is his arena, his stage, his puppet show. A great character.

-Seldon

 

^^^ all very good stuff

 

Obviously, having children is the last thing that Anakin and Padme were planning to do. They were trying to hide their marriage, and having children would force them to make it public, because otherwise Anakin could not raise his own family.

Moreover, it's unbelievable that they don't have methods of contraception in the GFFA. I definitely think that Anakin and Padme were careful not to have children. This is also evidenced by the fact that Padme is worried about it, and Anakin is taken aback when he hears it. This was NOT a planned pregnancy.

Who stands to profit from Padme's pregnancy? Palpatine, because he can use it to get Anakin expelled from the Jedi Order and draw him nearer to himself.

Who knows that Anakin is married to Padme? Palpatine, even though it is extremely unlikely that Anakin told him., because he was trying to hide this.

Who made it possible for Anakin to marry Padme? Palpatine, because he specifically asked for Obi-Wan Kenobi to protect Padme. Palpatine had noticed of course that Anakin was smitten with her, so he arranged for them to meet.

Who benefits from Padme's death? Palpatine, because Vader no longer has any motivation left in him.

It seems to me that everything that has transpired in Anakin's life is quite convenient for Palpatine. His marriage to Padme makes him distrust the Jedi who don't like attachments; her pregnancy makes him fearful of her life; her death severs all his attachments. Palpatine wanted Anakin as his instrument, and he got him.

Anakin is a force of nature, the individual with the highest midi-chlorian count. The Jedi want him, because they expect him to destroy the Sith. Palpatine wants him, because he wants him to destroy the Jedi. Everyone is trying to get Anakin. Palpatine played the situation wonderfully to lure Anakin into his camp.

 

Plagueis wanted to rule the galaxy. The Sith have been trying to come back for a long time. Plagueis fashioned himself as the wise ruler who would use the enormous power of the Dark Side to create and protect life. That is the ultimate power, the power to cheat death.

The only problem was that the Jedi wouldn't just allow a Sith lord to take over. So, Plagueis devised a plan: he would build a super-Sith out of the midi-chlorians who would destroy the Jedi. Moreover, since Plagueis had created him, he could also destroy him, so he would not be threatened by him, as past Sith Masters had.

Plagueis wanted power. He wanted to rule forever with a powerful apprentice he could control. He needed the apprentice to destroy the existing order.

The only variable he didn't take into account was his apprentice, Sidious.

Sidious didn't want to be replaced. So, he killed Plagueis and sought out his master's creation.

Sidious usurped his master's plan. He wants to rule the galaxy. He wants power. He will use Skywalker to do his bidding. Unlike his master though, he must find a way to control Skywalker. He finds a way to turn him to the Dark Side and make him his servant.

But, Vader is a failure, maimed by Obi-Wan. He waits, and seeks a new apprentice to complete his plan, a new undamaged apprentice that will help him fully realize his plan.

The only variable he didn't take into account was his apprentice, Vader. His master's creation destroys him, and Darth Plagueis takes revenge against his murderer.

 

In the audio commentary for Return of the Jedi, Lucas makes it clear that the window behind Palpatine is meant to resemble a spider's web.

It is a powerful metaphor. Palpatine is the spider of the Star Wars galaxy, through the six films--he spins his web. All the other characters become tangled, trapped and consumed by it.

In the end, the spider himself is caught in the net of lies, deception, and political manipulation.

I love that metaphor.

-Seldon

 

According to RotS, Palpatine pretty much predicted everything and played his cards right. So a simple answer to your question in my opinion is "yes, he had a very big influence on the saga."

 

History repeats itself

 

That is in essence the story of the Sith.
The apprentice biting the hand the feeds it--or killing the man that trained them.

It is ironic that Anakin considered the Tuskens to be "animals" due to their brutality but in many ways--but his own definition, he becomes an animal himself.

-Seldon

 

Yet are we humans not animals ourselves?

 

It depends how you view it and when.
We are animals in the biological sense. From a spiritual, moral, social standard, we pride ourselves on being above animals.

The actual details are unimportant, what is important is how Anakin and the other characters viewed it.

-Seldon

 

I agree. By the way when ever Palpy gives a speech in the Senate I keep thinking "What a phony". He lies about everything.

 

Ironic. In the end the sith are destroyed by their own greed and power, they became blind to their "trusted" apprentices and were killed by them; though the apprentices usually just wanted power, vader wanted to save his son and turn back to the light.

 

The Emperor's major influence is that he corrupted the Chosen One, and postponed his own inevitable death.

When Palpatine chose to become a Sith, he sealed his own death at the hand of Anakin Skywalker, years later.

The Force decided that it was time for the Sith to go, that's why Anakin was even conceived by the Force; immaculately, raised by an honorable woman, out in the middle of no-where.

When Anakin chose in RoTS to become a Sith, he sealed his own death -- because the Force was determined to bring Balance [no more Sith] to the whole situation.

When Anakin was turned by Palps in Ep. 3, it was simply postponed by 24 years.

At the end of Return of the Jedi, the Sith will not exist. Lucas simply shows us the happy ending.

With Luke in the situation, the Force is simply giving Anakin one last chance to to go heaven when he dies [Force Ghost].

If Vader/Anakin allows Palps to kill Luke, the Sith are still going to be no more.

Vader and Palpatine will square off when Luke is dead, and the Death Star will blow up.

I know some say that Vader/Anakin is helpless...blah...blah...blah.

Believe you me, Vader is plenty mad that Palps tried to have him killed by his own son. So what, they're both going to pretend the previous 2 hours on the Death Star II did not happen.

No...they are going to duke it out, and both die when the battle station goes ka-boom. Both of them going and dying into the chaos of the Dark Side.

But we get to see the happy ending, where Anakin does what he should have done in Episode 3, kill Sidious.

Either way, the Will of the Force with the Chosen One, there will be no Sith at the of RoTJ.