The fan's focus on Episode III in the time leading up to the film...

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by jedi_master_ousley, Jan 31, 2004.

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  1. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I don't know about anyone else, but I can definitely say that my Episode III focus is on the main points of the completion of the saga and especially the moments leading up to Anakin's fall to the dark side.

    I'm sure that I'm not alone in hopes that there is some well played out extra/filler stuff. But that is not what the focus should be on.

    Too often I see fans falls into the "fanboy" trap by spending too much effort speculating on what some random background character (esp. Kit Fisto) is going to do, and forget what this film is really about.

    The Saga as a whole is about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker and the people he interacts with along the way. When I say this, I mean the main people, as in the "starring" characters. The saga is also partially about Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Padme, Palpatine, Jar Jar, Dooku, Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, Lando, R2-D2, and C-3PO. Those are who I view as the most important characters in the saga, and all others fall into either the "almost important" or "not at all important" category. The "background characters" act as fillers who are conveniently placed in the story to further it along, but could easily be replaced by someone else and not have an impact on the story, unlike if you replaced Obi-Wan with someone else.

    Of course, these background characters are part of what makes the saga exist, and without them the movies would be boring. However, the fact remains that amidst all of the anticipation and speculation for Episode III, they should be just as background in your mind as they are in the saga.

    Another journey of speculation and anticipation lies with Anakin after his complete turn to the dark side. It seems there is a lot of focus around the internet on who he kills first or what he does--perfectly fine unless you don't care why he does it--the fault in many fan's anticipation. Without the scenes leading up to his turn, the turn itself would not make sense.

    We already know what he is like as Vader; we have seen the Classic Trilogy. The prequels are about his rise and fall: the fall being at the end of the prequel journey. I hope that we do not see any more of the dark side Anakin in the prequels than we do of the light side Anakin in the classic trilogy.

    The saga is split down the middle with two trilogies, and they should contrast each other and yet mirror each other at hte same time in regards to Anakin. The contrast is him in his light and dark side mode; the mirror is the time in each respective condition and possibly even dealing with how each set of circumstances took place.

    Anakin has a journey to make in Episode III and a lot to do on that journey. I can't wait to see what that journey consists of--in other words the "how" and "why" of his turn to the dark side. And of course the deaths of Padme and Dooku are important along this path--as well as the complete downfall of the Jedi Order, the choices of Obi-Wan and Yoda, and the birth of the twins.

    If those things are what you really carea bout while heading into Episode III, your enjoyment of hte film will be much greater than if your main desire is to see the "kewl" background characters and "awesome" special effects and "badass Vader" killing everyone in sight.

    These films are about the characters and story first, and the other stuff after that. All fans should think the same way as well. If you do, I commend you.
  2. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I agree about the Fan Boy trap. Too many of us fall into that. I don't really care if Vader is in the film. I want to see Anakin with the red saber. Because while Vader is great and all, we see him in the classic films. I would love to see some great fights and a good story. I don't really care how it comes out because I know it will great.

    I find if I spend too much time on the III forum, then I don't care as much about the film.

    Too much speculation is bad, in my opinion.

    It is what it is, we will have to wait.
  3. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Very well said ousley. I completely agree.

    There's nothing wrong with liking other characters or being excited about the special effects or whatever, but what is wrong is not appreciating the story for what it really is. This seems to happen all the time.

    We already know what he is like as Vader; we have seen the Classic Trilogy. The prequels are about his rise and fall: the fall being at the end of the prequel journey. I hope that we do not see any more of the dark side Anakin in the prequels than we do of the light side Anakin in the classic trilogy.

    I especially loved this. It's probably the biggest fanboy "problem". Many people don't seem to understand that this is Anakin's story, not "Vader's." It's not about Vader killing as many Jedi as possible and being the scourge of the universe. It's about WHY Anakin abandoned everything he ever knew and loved. This is why Episode III exists at all. If you go in expecting nothing but ass-kicking Vader you'll be sorely dissapointed. George Lucas is smarter than that. Sure Anakin will do some shocking things. We will be shocked by his fall, shocked and sad and betrayed. He is a tragic hero and there is a journey to be made, one that we've only just begun seeing.

    GL has said that the movie will be mostly Anakin not Vader. I've always believed that it isn't until the bitter end, when everything he's ever known has been destroyed, everyone he's ever loved has died or "turned" on him, and his very life is almost lost, that he gives himself fully to the Dark Side. He's a naive, arrogant kid who let himself be manipulated to the point of no return, who let desire for power overshadow all else, despite his "good" intentions. For I think Anakin does what he does because he truly believes it is what's "right" for the Galaxy- at first. But he unconsciously lets his naivety, arrogance, passion and stubborness corrupt him. This could truly happen to anyone and that's what people need to realize about him. What he does as Vader is horrible, and inexcusable despite all the odds aganist him. But even so there is a story behind it, a reason. And there "is still good in him." He can come back.

    This is the message. This is why he can't turn completely evil halfway through the movie. It's ambiguous, it's a journey. He doesn't realize the magnitude of it all until it's too late. Good and evil will be blurred with Anakin, as it always was, as it always is. We will be debating his fall to the Dark Side forever.
  4. EMPEROR_WINDU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2002
    star 5
    I hope that we do not see any more of the dark side Anakin in the prequels than we do of the light side Anakin in the classic trilogy.......i dont agree with this, i want to see anakin filled with rage as he attacks obi-wan, i want to see him full of rage if he attacks mace and dooku as well. do i want to see him as a full blown sith lord when he does these things? no i do not.but anakin's power from episode III will spring from his use of the dark side IMO, since he's not strong enough to kill a mace or dooku with the light only....being confused doesnt cause you to attack your mentors and friends
  5. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6

    I don't think we're saying that Anakin won't draw power from the Dark Side, I think undoubtedly he will. And yes I think his rage gradually consumes him, but again that's different from him being a full-out Sith Lord. And I think in this case it is confusion that leads him to attack these people. Actually confused isn't the right word, it's delusion really. But it isn't just that, you're right, anger and hatred to have a lot to do with it. He's been manipulated into thinking these people are aganist him, threatening him, even hurting the ones he loves. It's confusing because the lines become completely blurred.
  6. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    This is an excellent thread.

    I imagine it will mostly be Anakin, Obi-Wan, Palps, and Padme. Those are the 4 characters who matter - everyone else, including Yoda, Mace and Dooku, are just side characters, IMHO.

    And you can even reduce it to Obi, Ani, and Palps - 2 Masters, 1 Chosen One.

    And I agree we will see the gradual decline of Anakin Skywalker into Darth Vader throughout the 150 minutes (estimating, obviously nothing confirmed on length) of Episode III.

    It would be incredibly grating to see Anakin turn into Vader within the space of 5 minutes. "Alright, I've had enough. I am no longer Anakin Skywalker. You can call me...Darth Vader!" [face_laugh]

    It reminds me of that hi-larious fake script that circulated last year.

    I think the way the fanboys will be satisfied is that Obi-Wan and Anakin have to show off their respective skills.

    So I assume Obi-Wan will have to build up his reputation from AOTC on some bad guys (possibly Dooku? Unlikely, maybe Ventress if she survives CW), and Anakin will prolly build up his rep on Mace, and (hopefully for Ousley) Kit Fisto, etc.

    Bail will be in there for the Rescue the Skywalker Twins bit, ditto with Yoda.

    I dunno - I just think everybody besides the Big 4 listed above is going to play secondary roles in Episode III.
  7. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    "...the third film is very, very, very dark. It's not a happy movie by any stretch of the imagination. It's a tragedy. Ultimately the final story is between Yoda, Obi-Wan, Anakin and the Padmé. It's really their story. Those four characters." - GL

    George has a slightly different group of 4 characters in mind.

    Man I have a quote for every situation... unfortunately a lot of them are a little spoilerific... ah well. ;)
  8. Crispy_Fried_Dentic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2003
    star 2
    Anakin has a journey to make in Episode III and a lot to do on that journey. I can't wait to see what that journey consists of--in other words the "how" and "why" of his turn to the dark side.

    :::shakes cane around wildly:::

    I've been waiting for this for 23 years, sonny! :p I've always wondered about the "how" and "why" of Darth Vader and now I'm getting it! W00T! Well, in 1 1/2 years that is, if I live that long.

    I couldn't give a Hutts butt about clones, Dooku, fancy ships, big battles or the Fett Family. I want to see 4 people in EPIII...Anakin, Padme, Obi and Palps. That's it. No extra sub-plots, no new villians, no extraneous characters. Just those 4 people. The story has a ton of loose ends to tie up or link to the OT; Uncle George has a huge job ahead of him. To introduce new things/characters now would be a distraction and a waste of precious film time.

    I would like to see the physical transformation of Anakin into Vader, although I doubt we'll see that much of it, if any. I'd like to see a wee bit of Vader as well, maybe in a different suit, sort of like a "beta" version...but I certainly don't want to see 90% of the film featuring Vader chopping up Jedi (although I have to admit that would be kinda fun for comics or something after EPIII [face_devil] ).
  9. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Lucas' comments so far have seemed to indicate that Vader will almost be a cameo role...certainly, since the climactic duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin will undoubtedly serve as the grand finale, I can't see Vader appearing until the extended aftermath of that, like a long epilogue. Maybe, I don't know, 10-15 minutes at most.

    And that's a very good thing in my book. After 3 films with Vader, I appreciate being able to see as much of Anakin as possible.

    Mind you, you know that some people and (probably) the media will complain that Vader's only in it for 5 minutes or something...."No payoff from Lucas, Vader is barely in it!" or similar junk... ;)
  10. classixboy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Agree 100%. I'be happy if I just see only 1 minute of Vader. Hell, if fans want Vader so badly, they have three whole movies FULL of him! I'm MUCH more interested in "how" and "why" of Anakin's transformation.
  11. sharkboy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 2
    Yes I agree the story is and should be the most important aspect of the movie along with lots of action and fun.
  12. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Well.. if death and destruction are fun...
  13. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    I think watching this movie is going to be emotionally exhausting.

    While seeing TPM for the first time brought me back to my childhood, and AOTC got me obsessed with the PT, it seems that Episode III is going to blow TPM and AOTC out of the water.

    I'm talking plot, action, locations, vehicles, weapons, stunts, emotions, good, evil, triumph, failure, hope, despair, love, hate. Everything. :D
  14. Crispy_Fried_Dentic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2003
    star 2
    Well.. if death and destruction are fun...

    If Darth Vader's doing it it is! ;) :D
  15. Blackout Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    Bear in mind that Anakin can be Vader without the armour. Once he gives in, then he becomes Vader, and Anakin is 'murdered'. This may happen mid-duel, or in contemlation. But it will be after a long inner-struggle.

    Obviously, the Fan Boys you refer to above are thinking that armour=Vader and that's it. Which it ain't. So even if we only get a glimpse of the armour, we could be watching Vader for the last half or third of the film [face_mischief] ...from a certain point of view.

    Obviously, you guys know that, but I wanted to clear it up ;)

    {||||| ?||} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  16. Padlei Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 4
    GARTH_MAUL I agree with you. The more I think about it the more I dread Episode III somehow. It is indeed going to be emotionally exhausting. I mean, there's no happy ending this time... :( Part of me really wants to see WHY Anakin turns but the other one almost wants to avoid it. Almost. ;)
    I get the feeling I'm going to be a mess come Episode III! 8-}
  17. sharkboy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2004
    star 2
    If Jar Jar gets killed it will be fun.
  18. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, Blackout, that's right.

    The whole 'Vader' persona is the armour, but the mental change in Anakin happens a lot sooner. Considering the flashes of Vader we saw in AOTC (for example, in Anakin's conversation with Watto) we could well be seeing that frame of mind from Anakin right from the start of the film.

    Ruthless, determined, cold...it doesn't have to start with the armour.
  19. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    jmo congratulations on once again starting another great thread.

    However I must disagree with the following passage:
    We already know what he is like as Vader; we have seen the Classic Trilogy. The prequels are about his rise and fall: the fall being at the end of the prequel journey. I hope that we do not see any more of the dark side Anakin in the prequels than we do of the light side Anakin in the classic trilogy

    I, and I know there are others on this site that share my belief, believe that you cannot arbitrarily seperate Anakin's fall with Vader's rise. I forget who said this, but they are two sides to the same coin. While we know that Vader is very renowned through gffa, as indicated by Leia's greeting to him aboard the ds, we actually know more about his reputation than what he is like. And this reputation is openly being challenged by his subordinates aboard the DS.

    I will also state that I donot equate the helmet to equaling Vader. It is a decision that is made by Anakin to adopt the ways of the darkside of the Sith.

    I gotta get going, but when I do, I'll add to this.

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