The Fate of Kamino

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by toochilled, Feb 3, 2003.

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  1. OrlandoT Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 4
    It would make sense for the empire to take over Kamino. Why would they want to leave Kamino freelance with their ability to sell their clones to anyone, not just the Empire?

    In RotJ, we saw a collage of all the planets we've seen in the OT celebrating. I hope that in Ep.3 we see the same, only instead of celebrating, we see the Empire taking over the planets we've seen in the PT, including Kamino.
  2. SaberGiiett7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 6
    Although we'll likely never know I think its a safe bet the Confederates attack and totally wipe out everything on Kamino between AOTC and Episode 3.

    I'm guessing the EU will milk this for everything its worth. [face_mischief]

    <[-]> Saber
  3. IG_88a Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 4
    firstly, stormtroopers aren't made on Kamino, at all, stormies and clonies are not the same thing, as we will find out in 2 and a half years.
    Secondly, Kamino will not be attacked, it doesn't exist, it was wiped from the Archives, how will any force attack what doesn't exist?
    As for Palps, why would he destroy something that is benefitial to himself? If it was his plan to get the clones produced, why destroy (as far as we know) the only existing cloning facility available? Unless he has his own planet, with his own cloning technology.
    Another Point, Kenobi won't lead an attack on Kamino, he is Jedi, they don't fight wars, they protect and defend.
  4. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    firstly, stormtroopers aren't made on Kamino, at all, stormies and clonies are not the same thing, as we will find out in 2 and a half years.

    No offence to you believeing that but George Lucas even said in the AOTC DVD commentary (as did Rob Coleman) that stormtroopers are clones.

    Another Point, Kenobi won't lead an attack on Kamino, he is Jedi, they don't fight wars, they protect and defend.

    I don't think he'd lead an attack on a place quite vital to the Republic anyhow.
    Besides the Jedi will do alot of attacking in EP3 since they have the CIS (Confederacy of Independent Systems or the Separatists) cornered in the final battle of the CW.
  5. IG_88a Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2002
    star 4
    err, i haven't listened to any commentary on Ep1 or 2, so i didn't hear anything from uncle george, however, i believe stormies and clonies are not the same, as stormies and tie pilots were recruited from planets occupied by humanoids and were put through Imperial Training, for example, Luke wanting to go off and join his friends at the Academy. Or a certain Smuggler that went AWOL. Also do clones chat amongst themselves while on guard duty? I'd like to think not, but in Ep4 ANH aboard the DeathStar, two stormies where chatting, while Obi-Wan deactivated the tractor beam and sheilds.

    Qui-Gon stated in Ep1, 'we can't fight your war for you...' He indicated that Jedi are only there to serve and protect, and unless the Jedi Council have changed their lore, They won't lead an army to battle.

    And If George did say stormies and Clonies are the same, what makes you think he won't change his mind again and state that stormies are not clones?
  6. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    "I haven't listened to any commentary on Ep1 or 2, so i didn't hear anything from uncle George......."

    Listen to the commentaries and learn something.

    "And If George did say stormies and Clonies are the same, what makes you think he won't change his mind again and state that stormies are not clones?"

    No "ifs" about it, he DID say it! Why would he completely change his mind right in the middle of writing a story within a couple of years time? It is one thing to take twenty years to rethink the direction and want to change a few things (the rights or wrongs of this is another debate), but he wouldn't do that right in the middle of the prequels and throw off the story he is currently writing.

    "i believe stormies and clonies are not the same, as stormies and tie pilots were recruited from planets occupied by humanoids and were put through Imperial Training, for example, Luke wanting to go off and join his friends at the Academy"

    Did you ever stop to think that the humans that enlist could hold ranks other than Stormtroopers? Did you ever stop to think that Death Star Troopers could be the ones from the Academy, completely seperate from Stormtooper clones? Did you ever stop to think that the high ranking commanders would be human, but would not come from the ranks for Stormtrooper, but rather the human forces? Forget what the stupid EU has dictated for so long and it will be easier for you.

    "Also do clones chat amongst themselves while on guard duty? I'd like to think not, but in Ep4 ANH aboard the DeathStar, two stormies where chatting, while Obi-Wan deactivated the tractor beam and sheilds."

    You know, just because they are clones don't mean they are mindless automatons who cannopt carry on a discussion. They may be altered, but they aren't robots. Didn't you even bother to listen to what Lama Su said to Obi on Kamino "Clones can think creatively" and "they are immensly superior to droids"?
  7. medleyoz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    "Qui-Gon stated in Ep1, 'we can't fight your war for you...' He indicated that Jedi are only there to serve and protect, and unless the Jedi Council have changed their lore, They won't lead an army to battle. "

    I think Q-G was reffering to him and obi wan not the Jedi order. I took his meaning as a Jedi knight and padawan could not fight a whole war as he said" we are here to protect you not fight a war for you" It was in their orders to protect the queen not to go and fight a war.

    Well "Kamino under Attack" Darkhorse's Republic comic #50 was just released. So the separtists have tried to destroy Kamino.
  8. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    I think it's safe to assume Stormtroopers are Clones :)

    I'm not sure whats going to happen to Kamino. I would guess Palpatine and The Emipre will take over the Cloning Facilites (killing the Kaminioans at the same time) Which might expalin why the Stormies aren't as accurate as the Clone Troopers.

    Whatever it's fate, I'm certain we haven't seen the last of Kamino. I think it will be back during Episode III.
  9. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    I don't know,and I don't think GL will give us an explaination in 3


    I don't really care what happens to Kamino
  10. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    I think that Kamino has been all but officially confirmed for Episode 3...and what other purpose would it have in the film other than the setting of a battle? Unless Boba Fett has returned there for some reason?

    Plus, we've only had one water-based sequence in Star Wars ('the planet core' in TPM) and that wasn't really a battle...
  11. Koala3K Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2003
    star 1
    Okay, I've got some points to make...

    -- Kamino will not be attacked, because there is no record of it ever existing. The only ones who know about it are the Jedi and whoever deleted the file from the archives (probably Palpatine, Dooku, or whoever Sifo-Dyas [sp?] is).

    -- The book "Tales of the Bounty Hunters" indicates that cloning has been outlawed by the time TESB takes place. I assume that the Kamino facilites have been permanently shut down, and that would explain the "limited numbers" Obi-Wan talks about.

    -- The issue was brought up about Vader/Anakin using the Force to blow up a planet or two. I think that that is rediculous. A scene where Anakin uses the Force to blow up a planet would be one of the funniest ones in movie history. I think that the ANH line "blah blah nothing compared to the power of the Force" was just a line to show that Vader was a dark Jedi who used the Force. He wasn't saying that he could use the Force to blow up a planet.

    -- The question of stormtroopers coming from clones and civilians was also asked. I think that the stormtrooper army is made up of both. For one thing, a lot of stormtroopers don't seem like their genes have been manipulated to make them more loyal or less independent. Plus, it just makes sense that some graduates of the Imperial Academy would become foot soldiers, while others became pilots and officers.

    -- Destroying Kamino would not be in the best interests of Palpatine, who will soon control the Death Star.

    -- Kamino is not always as watery as it was in AOTC. During its summer season, it gets significantly sunnier and drier. Therefore, a battle on Kamino is not an automatic underwater battle.

    That is all.

    --Koala3K
  12. Trojan_Sock Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    "Kamino will not be attacked, because there is no record of it ever existing. The only ones who know about it are the Jedi and whoever deleted the file from the archives"

    Well, since the Jedi know about it, you can be sure the Senate knows about it too. Yoda even went there. I'm not sure how this explains why Kamino won't be attacked. ?[face_plain]


    "cloning has been outlawed by the time TESB takes place. I assume that the Kamino facilites have been permanently shut down."

    Perhaps, but EU won't prevent Lucas from saying otherwise. Besides, if Kamino wasn't attacked, then who do you suppose "permanently shut down" shut down the facility. Surely, the Kaminoans didn't do it of their own free will?


    "I think that the ANH line "blah blah nothing compared to the power of the Force" was just a line to show that Vader was a dark Jedi who used the Force. He wasn't saying that he could use the Force to blow up a planet. "

    Perhaps, but Vader didn't say he blew up a planet. He said blowing up a planet is insignificant to the power of the Dark Side. I do believe that we will see a new power or two that will really knock our socks off.


    "For one thing, a lot of stormtroopers don't seem like their genes have been manipulated to make them more loyal or less independent."

    I guess, though you'd never dare hear them complaining about it around Vader. [face_laugh]


    "Destroying Kamino would not be in the best interests of Palpatine, who will soon control the Death Star."

    Which destroys planets, by the way. Please explain again why destroying Kamino would not be in his best interests?


    "it gets significantly sunnier and drier. Therefore, a battle on Kamino is not an automatic underwater battle."

    How much drier? "Hoth" drier? "Tatooine" drier? Besides, the battle doesn't have to take place underwater, but I doubt Lucas will pass up the chance to have a large-scale naval battle, should we see Kamino again in Ep.III. Prior to TPM, I read a book (forgot the name, it belonged to someone I've not sen in a while) chronicaling Lucas' various movie battles. In it, he and his FX pals talked about how hard it was to work with water, or make it look believable in a film. When TPM came around, we suddenly see an overly long underwater sequence, a la CGI graphics. Lucas finally had the tools he needed to show the effect he wanted. This was further used in AOTC. I don't think Lucas is done with water (and for that matter, lava :D )
  13. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    You said that Dooku knows about it, and as he's leading the opposition, it's a very good idea for him to destroy his enemy's only troop-creating facility. We don't actually know how much of Palpatine's plan he has been told about - or what his own plans are - so he may well order an attack on Kamino.

    The ILM team did say they got the water effects how they wanted them in AOTC (after they were pioneered in The Perfect Storm) so I'm sure they'd jump at the chance of a water battle
  14. Trojan_Sock Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    "and as he's leading the opposition, it's a very good idea for him to destroy his enemy's only troop-creating facility."

    But he's leading the opposition for the benefit of Sidious. Sidious wants the clonetroopers to look like "good guys", fighting alongside the Jedi and helping them to eliminate the trade federation (so it's easier to take over their operations). Once this is done, the Jedi will be taken by surprise by the very clonetroopers now in their midst (and in overwhelming numbers as well.) Now both of Sidious' "enemies" are taken out. In this respect, Sidious taking out Kamino would be a huge mistake, as it would deprive him of more clonetroopers. If anyone is to attack Kamino, the Jedi would have the best reason to do so, as it would stunt Sidious' enforcement abilities over the galaxy.
  15. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    Yes, but do we know Dooku is completely with Sidious? I know his comment to Obi-Wan about destroying the Sith was just to get him to join him, but maybe he really wants to end the corruption in the Republic. He may have reasons of his own for attacking Kamino. Or maybe it is part of Sidious's plan; after all, he did send the Trade Federation into a defeat on Naboo, though he was going to use them later. Perhaps an attack on Kamino could actually benefit him in some way?
  16. Trojan_Sock Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2003
    star 4
    "Perhaps an attack on Kamino could actually benefit him in some way?"

    I won't say it's impossible, but I've not seen any convincing reasoning for it.

    The only real evidence I've seen that shows Dooku is playing against Sidious is the fact that he deliberately maims, rather than kills, Obi-wan and Anakin, and then runs like hell when Yoda shows up. Is he really a sympathizer, or does Sidious have plans for these guys as well?
  17. Darth Jamus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2000
    star 4
    "Kamino is not always as watery as it was in AOTC. During its summer season, it gets significantly sunnier and drier. Therefore, a battle on Kamino is not an automatic underwater battle"

    Koala3K, just where did this come from? It looked like a complete water planet from orbit. I cannot imagine a planet that is completely covered by water, but in the spring land emerges! That is just silly!

    "Yes, but do we know Dooku is completely with Sidious? I know his comment to Obi-Wan about destroying the Sith was just to get him to join him, but maybe he really wants to end the corruption in the Republic"

    Kwenn, I completely agree with this idea, and have considered it for a long time! Dooku, I believe, has his own plans completely separate from Sidious. He has no intention of sticking with Sidious and his Empire, for I believe that the dictatorship Sidious proposes goes against what Dooku believes in. I really think that he does want to create a better governing body to take place of the Republic by what ever means available. He has simply chosen the wrong path to do so and will certainly be the loser for it! The Dark Side is corrupting him more than I believe that he thought it would. He will rebel against Sidious, but I do believe that Sidious is completely on to him and simply using him till he gets Anakin for an apprentice!
  18. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    The AOTC Visual Dictionary says the water on Kamino was due to the ice caps melting, and the water flooded the land. As the Kaminoans already had their 'stilt cities' they survived, but are forced to live in them all year. The land never surfaces.
  19. _Xanatos_ Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2003
    star 3
    I hear it gets attacked in a comic or something. It is included in a timeline. But a battle would be awesome to see.
  20. Kwenn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2001
    star 5
    Yes, it's in Republic #50. I haven't read it, though it sounds cool
  21. MikeSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    All I have to say is Read the Dark Horse Comic...Star Wars Republic: The Epic Battle for Kamino. Its great.
  22. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    firstly, stormtroopers aren't made on Kamino, at all, stormies and clonies are not the same thing, as we will find out in 2 and a half years.
    Well, we don't really know one way or the other if they're precisely identical or not...it's been hypothesized that -- thanks to the death of the original clone template, Jango Fett -- the Empire will be forced to seek out completely new sources of genetic material for their stormtroopers, thus explaining the changeover that we know is coming.

    Secondly, Kamino will not be attacked, it doesn't exist, it was wiped from the Archives, how will any force attack what doesn't exist?
    Actually, it was attacked. As of Star Wars: Republic #50. ;)

    Another Point, Kenobi won't lead an attack on Kamino, he is Jedi, they don't fight wars, they protect and defend.
    Kenobi -- as are many of the other surviving Jedi -- are now military generals, commanding the Republic's (i.e., Palpatine's) new military in the wars, which is a dramatic shift away from their previously-established ethos of overt non-interference in matters of warfare. (This was pretty much established way back in 1977, from the first film's dialogue.)

    Did you ever stop to think that the humans that enlist could hold ranks other than Stormtroopers? Did you ever stop to think that Death Star Troopers could be the ones from the Academy, completely seperate from Stormtooper clones? Did you ever stop to think that the high ranking commanders would be human, but would not come from the ranks for Stormtrooper, but rather the human forces? Forget what the stupid EU has dictated for so long and it will be easier for you.
    Of course, and this is indeed the case by the time of the original trilogy, simply by virtue of Biggs and Luke both wishing to jaunt off to the Imperial Academy for training. By that juncture, the Empire had incorporated non-clone divisions into its ranks, for officers and the like. (However, something to bear in mind: the Expanded Universe is a legitimately valid source for speculation upon the new films, as Lucas himself utilizes it as a referent when developing the prequel movies on a fairly regular basis. Just because something does not originate on celluloid does not necessarily render it inconsequential.)
  23. mrslush50 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 4
    "Forget what the stupid EU has dictated for so long and it will be easier for you."

    the EU, while not "from the mouth of the flannel one" can actually be quite enjoyable and can greatly enhance your Star Wars experience. I for one would not enjoy the movies nearly as much if I were not a avid follower of the EU. Give the EU a chance. You might even like it. ;)
  24. Daughter_of_Yubyub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 6
    Or at least don't call it stupid. The instant you do that, you start to make those of us who do like it feel bad, or you just make us mad, depending on what the day's been like. Either way, everyone is much happier if you just respect both completist and purist viewpoints. You don't have to agree, and you're free to criticize, but try to give specific reasons rather than sweeping generalizations that just upset everybody.

    Please?
  25. VuaRapuungRules Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2002
    star 1
    Awww...how can you say no to that, huh? [face_blush]

    I don't think anyone here knows for sure the correct answer to the question that is called 'this thread'. Kamino and Geonosis are relatively close together, both pretty far away from the Core, so I don't think the planets will be as bunkered up as some other planets are. If at all. But could be, I don't know if it'll be necessary after two years of Clone Wars, with the economy and industry having switched to warmode. Geonosis seemed like an important planet to the Confederacy in Ep 2, with the leaders meeting there, Geonosians building the (prototype) Death Star, or at least working on its designs, and droids being produced, all on that planet. And Kamino is quite important to the Republic in AotC, too. But I don't know how the thousands of star systems that form the Confederacy are spread trough the Galaxy, or where their military backbone is located. If Kamino is in striking distance (from Geonosis, it is), than it might very well be attacked. That's something different than being destroyed. Of course this is assuming the Republic won't destroy it. Don't think they will, it's not Republic policy. Maybe they'll dismantle the facilities, though it seems like a dumb thing to do. Perhaps the planet will be forgotten. I don't know where the 'pre-Star Destroyers', very obvious at the end of Ep. 2, came from, but I don't think from Kamino. If the Republic can bring that kind of hardware to bear on such short notice, Kamino's use may be limited. Limited to having been a forward base of operations against Geonosis, being close to it, and harboring ready armies. So imo, it could be forgotten, attacked, destroyed, bunkered up, or serving the same role it did in AotC. Pumping out more soldiers for that sector, its location relatively unknown, and not important enough to be conquered. No one planet can be the axis around which the galaxy's fighting forces spin. Ship yards would be another matter, but again, I'm not seeing them 'at' Kamino. Wouldn't like seeing them there either, would be rather silly, a bunch of Star Cruisers breaking trough the waves, defying gravity and heading towards space. And there are no space-based ship yards at Kamino, for sure. It's possible, I'll admit it, but if it's as effective as can be, idk.

    As for Stormtroopers being clones...probably, yes. If Sidious would get the technology I think he'd use it. No reason why he wouldn't. Even the ban on cloning is not too impressive if you keep in mind that possessing a tactical nuke is illegal, but certain governments do have quite a few. But I also think his forces, that's Stormtroopers too, are at the very least complemented by 'normal' people. The Empire's propaganda machine can be very effective. Many able people want to join, people that are perhaps fit to join the Stormtroopers. Why not? If you can make your oppressed population have some hope, and comfort out of the fact that your brother or son or whatever is joining the elite forces, or the Navy as a TIE-pilot, or a relatively well-paid engineering job with chance of promotion, all with the armed forces of the ruling body of the galaxy, while at the same time strengthening your forces, do it. It's purpose combined with propaganda -no reason to say no to that.
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