ST The fate of Kamino's cloning technology and Episode VII.

In a other thread was discussed the theory that one of the new actors from the new star wars episode could be a Clone of some characters from the Original trilogy.

It triggered the following question:

What happened to the Cloning technology between Episode III and Episode IV and could this lead to a plot point in Episode VII, considering some new "canon" elements from upcoming REBELS could do that?

I mean, Palpatine HAS to do something about Kamino cloners, knowing they could grow armies of Jedis or ennemies to his cause.

At the end of ROTS, not many people knowing the existence of Kamino are still alive... Palpatine certainly suspect surviving Jedi to know about that secret... and Obi Wan and Yoda survives ROTS, that being obvious to Palpatine.

So, my theory is, somewhere in Rebels, we might see what becomes of Kamino and the cloning facilities & technology and how, what form, it will "survive" the Original Trilogy era. If there was a PACT between the cloners and Palpatine...

It can go 2 ways: Either they still create Troopers from clones, or they stop using clones and enroll... either ways, Kamino is somewhere/or destroyed in the OT.

It could lead to surprises in Episode VII.

Remember, this is a powerful weapon, much more than the Death Star itself, it is a technology, proven in Attack of the Clones capable of duplicating perfectly another being.

What if Anakin knew about that technology (He never did), could have cloned Padme.

Palpatine knew all about this technology and was foreseeing what was to happen in his future, enough to take control of the universe...

What if he paid a visit to Kamino before boarding the Death Star in ROTJ... just in case...

 

Thats a tricky question now all the previous EU timeline is out, i loved Kamino and its cities built on stilts above raging ocean's. May be Serkis could be portraying a Kaminoan as well as other motion capture characters? What if Gleeson was a clone of Obi-Wan,he certainly could pass as a young Ewen McGregor...

 

I guess my question is how is the force passed on? I thought it was very random but it sounds like all the children in the upcoming movies are going to have the force. But in my mind even if Palpatine cloned himself it wouldn't necessarily mean the clone would possess force powers.


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Luke met his "clone" in the cave on Degobah...

 

Summers1913... That is an excellent question. The Skywalker family shows us that The Force can be transmitted (or transmits itself) genetically, from one generation to another, even through a non-force user (Padme). Is it the same with cloning? Could it be the next "masterpiece" we hear from the cloners (after Boba)... managing to clone a Force-sensitive being...

 

If we accept that the EU has effectively been swept aside then the matter remains effectively unresolved. Of course Palpatine clones are well established in the EU, but if we effectively ignore that in the context of the new movies then there is no precedent that you can insert your essence into a clone body using the force. It's an idea that could be brought into the movies but we haven't seen it as yet.

Monozygotic twins are effectively clones; identical genetically in every way and yet they are two different people. Without using the force, you could clone a person using their tissue and have another person that looks just like them in every way but it wouldn't be them; it would be another person entirely. We see that with the clone troopers. To use the Clone Emperor or whomever as a plot device in the movies, you would need to explain how it's possible to basically bring yourself back to a cinema going audience with no knowledge of the EU, because as far as we know, the Kaminoans didn't have that technology.

 

My advantage here, is I have NO KNOWLEDGE whatsoever of EU. I think I am pretty close to what JJ is: a boy from Gen X, grew with the OT, stood in lines for PT, read a couple of pages of Thimothy Zahn trilogy in the 90s, because the sequel to ROTJ was something we've abandoned. But all I know from Kamino is that it was in Episode II, cloning was a terrifying technology, enough to build an army, force the Galactic Empire and kill most of the Jedi... Then POOOF! We hear "Clone Wars" from OB's mouth in EPISODE IV.

My point is, this technology is that powerful.... imaging for a moment, a 3rd Death Star would have been seen floating at the end of ROTS, we would now say either:
1 - Death Star 3 is destroyed/Stolen somewhere in between III and IV and will probably be a plotpoint from REBELS
2 - Death Star 3 might end up as a plotpoint in EPISODE VII

Same here with Cloning.

1 - Kamino's cloning technology is destroyed/Stolen somewhere in between III and IV and will probably be a plotpoint of REBELS
2 - Kamino's cloning technology is still used by the time of IV V and VI, but then why the enrollment propaganda from REBELS? Why enrolling when you have the ability to create armies quickly, proven effective against the enemy of the Old Republic (Now Empire).?
3 - Kamino's cloning technology might end up as a plotpoint in EPISODE VII.

Now IF I AM PALPATINE... and there goes my theory:

I win the Clone Wars, I am now Emperor. I rallied most of the Star Systems in the galaxy. I did that using the most dangerous piece of techno (Cloning Facilities on Kamino)....

After ROTS, my moves are:

1 - Stop all clone production on Kamino
2 - Either coarse, kill or DEAL with the Kaminoans... At this point, knowing they have no political preference, they only want MONEY... not knowing if I may have to use them in the future... I DEAL WITH THEM. A Lando-type deal they can't refuse. And I make sure NO ONE ever approach the planet.
3- Build Academies and enlistment posts all over the galaxy and take advantage of my huge popularity, using the threat of rebellion (terrorists) or even Clones? (Clones gone mad... ) Jedi? Remaining from the droid army... Using FEAR.
4 - Destroy all Clones (a programmed defect that could be triggered, a "Clone illness" or just put them frontline until the last of the clone is dead.
5 - I make myself a Plan B before I meet with Luke Skywalker and his father on the unfinished second Death Star....

 

please no

I guess technically speaking, midi-chlorians could be the answer you're looking for. I think Luke's dialogue in ROTJ also made it pretty clear:

 

The clones were used the same way Palpatine used the Trade Federation/Seperatists, to create a conflict where by both sides would be equal drawing the Jedi into a war of attrition. When the Jedi were down to the last few Palpatine didn't need the Seperatists and only used the clones to reinforce his power over the galaxy.

Having said that he couldn't afford to dispense with the clones or the cloning facilities because he never knew when they'd be needed again, so he could keep the facilities and the Kaminoans under his control. Erase all the archives that place Kamino in a similar way to how Dooku erased Kamino from the Jedi archives. And under George Lucas' PT rules any clone of Palpatine or Anakin would have enough medichlorians to be able to be as strong with the force as their donor.

 

Now that's a retcon.

 

Why would we need & want more focus on clones in Episode VII? Enough has been done concerning that topic in the PT, and elsewhere.

 

Rebels involves the Empire colonizing areas that were never under Republic rule. I would love to go back to Kamino and see the results: pristine medical facilities smashed and overgrown with weeds, a few Kaminoans surviving in the ruins, but savage and primitive. They made a deal with the devil when they shook hands on the clone army, and I don't think they'll escape.

 

I'm going to write a book and call it How to Clone Your Way To Galactic Domination For Sith Lords, Evil Geniuses and Dummies

 

I don't really want to see any cloning in the ST or in future stories.

But I wouldn't mind seeing Kamino again. Maybe they're tracking down the bad guys or whoever and it leads them to the abandoned cloning facilities or whatever happened to them. See what the Kaminioans (sp?) are doing now.

 

Guys whether you loved AOTC and the prequels or not the truth is these new episodes won't be referncing them in any way. Dont be expecting talk/visiting of Kamino or clones or midichlorians or anything else. Theyre in the controversial, mixed reviewed past.

 

^Hope for that all you want, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment .

 

Does a solid reference exist which answers why the Storm troopers of SW77 do not necessarily (remotely, I would say) give off the impression of being clones, under all that armor? They have different heights. Their voices are not identical. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759/fullcredits#cast). I have the faintest recollection of art from the time of West End Games of a poster that has a Stormtrooper and "enlist", i.e., the ranks were (now) open.

 

Probably the first source to portray them as clones:

Star Wars Poster Monthly (January 1978):

http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post4-03.jpg

I've seen some suggestion that "normal human" stormtroopers will be the default for Rebels.

If one wants to keep both the notion that there are Jango clones (Jango bumping his head in AoTC was supposed to be a call-forward to the stormtrooper bumping his head in ANH) and the notion that there are volunteers - there's nothing contradicting it.

 

What a stupid thing to state... Even in the casting we can see that an actress has more than a passing resemblance to Padme (assuming she's from the Solo/Skywalker bloodline). I think your going to be dissapointed if you think events/characters from the PT won't be referenced.

 

The bigger question for me, from just watching the films, is why would Palpatine move away from using clones (to make up his armies) when the clones were seen to be brilliant soldiers, who could be programmed to show undying loyalty to the Emperor and the Empire.

 

In the EU, the Kaminoans had clones loyal to them, and ended up opposed to Palpatine (and were crushed).

Palpatine may have decided after that - no more all-clone army - (while still using some).

Maybe Rebels will allude to something similar?

 

Surprising and remarkable how that colorful license of clone back story holds up against TCW 36 years later. I could speculate that the TCW blue suit Senate Guards represent the initial opening of an enlisted, rather than conscripted, rank. That picture of a Senate Guard is the first fracture in one of the central conceits of the Star Wars universe, that a system of governance can exist across multiple millennia without armies. It bridges the unrealistic fantasy Utopia of an undefended Republic (yesyesyestheresJediwhatever) with the enlisted/conscripted fascist machine that Lucas painted in chiaroscuro in 1977. If one pairs that with the back story of the 1978 article, which mentions Imperial Guards as being selected from Imperial Stormtroopers, which we are visually cued to know derive from the Republic Senate Guards, then it is logical that enlistment into the Imperial Stormtroopers is plausible, as you patently cannot "enlist" into the Republic Clone Troopers.

In fact I'd appreciate any erudition anyone can share on whether or not the early choice of clones was influenced by the conscription of Viet Nam. The wiki page says, "After graduating with a bachelor of fine arts in film in 1967, he tried joining the United States Air Force as an officer, but he was immediately turned down because of his numerous speeding tickets. He was later drafted by the Army for military service in Vietnam, but he was exempted from service after medical tests showed he had diabetes, the disease that killed his paternal grandfather."

 

Duh....
Kamino got blasted by a prototype deathstar and it destroyed the ecosystem causing an eternal ice age and the planet is now known as Hoth.