The fate of Shmi Skywalker... why?

this is an excellent question punisher, good on you for posting it.

and there have been some brilliant answers in here, and i tend to agree that anakin's attachment to shmi could have distracted him his jedi training. well as it turned out, his attachment was too strong and it was only a matter of time before he was drawn back to her again.

 

Here's my question(s)...

Watto: No pod is worth two slaves! Not by a long shot!

But, a pod is worth one. That's why Watto made the bet with Qui-Gon. Right? You wouldn't bet me $200 if I only had to bet $50. Would you? Plus, Anakin won the Boonta Eve 500, so wouldn't that tremendously boost the value of his pod? Also, wouldn't Shmi obviously be considered less valuable than a youthful slave since Qui-Gon "won the small toss" when the dice came up snake eyes? So, why wasn't the sale of a champion pod enough to pay for a cheap slave? We can obviously see that Qui-Gon is a good business man from his dealings with Watto. What could farmer Cleigg have offered that Qui-Gon didn't? My theory is that Qui-Gon let Anakin get ripped off with the sale of his pod. Or, he could have sold it at full price and pocketed some for himself. He didn't want Shmi tagging along. He was a player. He loved her, left her, took her kid, and probably some money. Anyone picking up what I'm laying down?

 

I went back and watched Phantom Menace, because I wanted to see if the recap of the story was right,like I NEED an excuse to watch Menace again.

Why did everyone go all over the place with an answer?

No one answered it. They talked about the Jedi's rules and the attachments, but that does not explain why Padme couldn't help Ani's mom. Shmi's decision, Nubian governments, the Republic. Huh?

The Jedi weren't going to get involved with a slave or the slave trade. I think if it wasn't for Jinn and his knowledge of Jedi writings, Ani would have never left Tatooine.
Jinn never told the Jedi where Ani came from, so how are they suppossed to know about his mom being a slave? Why are they suppossed to save her or get involved?
Why should they? The were concerned with the Sith and the boy in their charge and their ancient Jedi mysteries. Shmi gave up her son, I am sure like many parents that let their children become Jedi, what is the difference?
Shmi only told Ani, not to look back because she wanted him to be a Jedi. I think if she could have, she would have liked her freedom, even if she didn't have her son.

The question asked was why didn't Queen Amidala help her?
She had to have money, I think that the Nabbo
government would give her some kind of pension, they must get some kind of money as a Senator. She could have gone with Panaka, had him pay for her and then go tell Shmi that she was free! I am sure Shmi would have recognized her, C-3PO did in Clones.

I think Queen Amidala should have bought Ani's mom, the Jedi and the Senate don't have to be involved in repaying a debt of gratitued to a woman that let her son save a planet.
I am sure that if Amidala had told the story of how Ani saved them and that his mom was a slave, that they would have had no trouble in helping her.
I don't think the Naboo people are that cruel, they seemed rather sympathtic, they were pacifistic, they didn't like slavery. Amidala was surprised that slavery existed on Tatooine, why didn't she report it to the Republic when she joined the senate?

I haven't seen a satisfing answer... even in Clones, if Amidala had tried to free Shmi and she was already gone, then Mr. Lucas could have shown us that... if he had left the scene's with Amidala's family in, I'm sure the audience, like me, would have said why didn't Amidala tell her family to free Shmi if she couldn't due to her position in the government? Amidala's family can be safe, but Ani's mom has to stay a slave?

Logically, Ani's mom should have been freed by the Nabbo. Looking at Menace again and remembering Clones, I do not see any good reason for her to have been left a slve.

I love the STAR WARS movies, but I don't like this... it hurts the story and the characters.
If it is a plot whole, why didn't anyone notice it?

Now I need to watch the original movies and see if there are any there. Punisher, you hurt my enjoyment of the films. I hope you are happy.

I'm just kidding. It has lowered Clones in my eyes though.

 

Reasons as stated in TPM:

1.) Watto refuses to sell Shmi to the people that ruined him. It wasn't about money, it was about sheer spite for the people who "swindled" him and took away his prize mechanic and prize pilot. Qui-Gon even mentions Watto's refusal to free Shmi on their return to the hut even though they have the money.

2.) Shmi chooses to stay behind for the betterment of her son.

 

Just because it's in the movie doesn't mean it makes sense. Padme's representative could have easily posed as an ordinary businessman--the kind to which Watto eventually sold Shmi anyway. She didn't "choose" to stay behind; she may have convinced Anakin of such, but she was still bound as a slave, rigged with explosives if she tried to leave with him. Would she turn down an offer to be free of the slave life, and perhaps see her son again? I doubt it.

To me, this is a simple oversight. It happens all the time.

 

You are jumping the gun though. You don't know what we will find out in Episode III.

You say we never see Qui-Gon tell the Council about Anakin's mom. But don't you think they would have asked? By the way, where did this Chosen One come from? C'mmon.

In ANH you don't see the Death Star plans get stolen. You don't see the Emperor dissolve the Senate.

In between ANH and ESB you don't see how Vader finds out the new Rebellion hero is named Skywalker.

In ESB you don't see Boba Fett contact the Vader and the Imperial troops telling them to head to Bespin.

In ROTJ you don't see the Emperor tell Piett to have the star destroyers only stop the Rebels from escaping and you don't see the Bothan spies.

Yet even though you don't see these things - they happen.

 

The difference, bjbrickm, is that we see the evidence for those events in the OT, whereas there's nothing to indicate that either Padme or the Council ever made any effort toward Anakin's mom.

Arguing "well, it could have happened..." is like arguing that Obi-Wan and Padme had a one-night stand in the back of the Queen's ship; since there's no evidence either way, we can't disprove it, but not being able to disprove it doesn't mean anything if there's no evidence in its favor.

 

Yeah Watto just rebuffs the people who he feels screwed him royally and cheated him out of everything. Then suddenly another offworlder shows up with alot of money wanting to buy the exact same old woman the other offwordlers wanted. Watto isn't exactly Slaves R Us, he's a small junk dealer. Suddenly an old woman in an obscure shop, in a backwater world is in demand by multiple offworlders in such a short amount of time? Like Watto isn't going to piece 2 and 2 together. Not to mention they would still have to get around the whole Republic credits thing.

 

No one said "suddenly." There are ways for world leaders to get what they want, and Padme had ten years to do it. The Republic Credits issue is so minor as to be nonexistent; there are countless ways around it, from banks to brokers to barter.

The point is that no one tried.

It's one of those instances where you can see the writer backstage, pulling the strings, and that's never good for suspension of disbelief.

 

Watto never met Panaka, Watto didn't know who Amidala was, Watto never saw Amidala in the shop, she left with Jinn and Jar Jar, but Watto never said anything to her because he was dealing with Qui-gon.

How can Watto spite someone he never paid attention to? If Jar Jar went to buy her, I can see Watto refusing him, I doubt that many Gungans come to Tatooine. He could say no to Jar Jar, but not to Panaka, Obi-Wan or anyone left on the ship of a person that asks to buy Shmi.

I think Shmi would rather be free, she wanted her son to be free, why wouldn't she?

 

INT. LARS HOMESTEAD - GARAGE - DAY

Padme enters to find a silent, mournful Anakin tinkering idly with a machine.

PADME
I was gonna free her, you know.

Anakin turns and stares.

PADME
I thought it would've been a nice "thank you" for, you know, saving my planet and everything, but... it would've gotten kinda complicated; I mean, there's that whole money exchange issue, and--well, you know Watto; he would've been tough to work with, and, yeah, all the paperwork; I mean, my inbox was way past full as it was, not that I couldn't have gotten someone else to take care of it, but, uh, anyway, it would've gotten too complicated, so I kinda decided to go do other stuff instead. You know, I figured she was fine down here; I mean, she told you to just go on ahead without her, right? You weren't really supposed to see her anyway; actually, this whole thing is kind of a bonus!

ANAKIN
Why you little...! (force-chokes Padme)

 

Grand Moff--

Again I refer to the fact that it's an old woman in a small obscure shop in a backwater world suddenly being a hot commodity. Watto isn't in the slave trading business, he's in the junk trading business. So suddenly this old woman is in high demand. You think he isn't going to piece together the fact that the people who screwed him are trying to buy the old woman again, and now they're trying to trick him because they think he's stupid. Like he's just going to go "OK, take her. You screwed me for everything, but I'll make sure you all get to live together in a happy island in the sun." It isn't who buys her, it's the fact that people are trying to buy her so close to when the people that ruined him and have her son wanted her so badly. It raises suspicion, and Watto is bitter and doesn't want to sell her on the extremely high chance she'll be reunited with the hated offworlders.

Geist--

If the Republic credits thing were such an easy thing to get around, then how come it's stated multiple times that they're useless on Tatooine. Qui-Gon and the Queen have boatloads of credits in TPM, no one will take them however because the Republic doesn't exist and the planet is controlled by gangsters. So why exactly isn't it going to be a problem if someone else comes back with even more useless credits that have no value on the planet? It wasn't an exchange matter, it was a value matter. Republic credits have no value.

 

Ultimate:

I once wound up discussing the cinematic merits of XXX. (Never mind how. ) I pointed out how the NSA, the film version of which recruits Vin Diesel as a field agent, uses no field agents at all in real life. One debater's response (a direct quote, sadly enough): "Then why did Gibbons say he was going to recruit him? He's part of the NSA, right?"

To reiterate, just because it's in the movie doesn't mean it makes sense.

Now, I can accept that a small party on the run, as with the cast of TPM, would prefer not to stop by the bank and move money around. By AOTC, however, that's a non-issue.

Let's assume for the moment that no bank in the universe is at all capable of exchanging one form of currency for another. Never mind how the Hutts do business off Tattooine; never mind how outlanders pay for their drinks and docking fees (or anything else, for that matter); never mind how the Rodians get by financially, when the films clearly show that they live both within the Republic and outside it.

Disregard all that. Why not barter?

Watto seemed quite interested in the Queen's ship, and it's far from her only possession. Are you saying that a merchant as shrewd and greedy as Watto would refuse any offer at all, no matter how profitable, on nothing more than general principle?

It makes no sense at all, and the problem is only compounded by the fact that no one tried.

 

Selling a ship is not the same as selling money that has no value to a non-government planet and besides, the only thing that Queen Amidala has in her possession besides that ship is her wardrobe and I doubt that Watto would be interested in her clothes since he's too small to fit in any of them and he's not even a human or a female.

"Watto never saw Amidala in the shop."

Yes, he did on the very day when Qui-Gon first step foot in Watto's shop asking for a new hyperdrive engine.

Watto saw Amidala walking in with Qui-Gon and since she's associated with him, Watto will never sell Shmi to her no matter what Amidala has in her posession.

Regardless of whether or not Shmi had explosives inside her body, she still made her decision to stay on Tatooine.

 

This is one thing I didn't like about EPII. I mean its like "oh yeah, by the way my mom is in trouble...oh bummer she's dead lets go wack some droids."

I mean Lucas could have done a lot better job with this part of the movie instead of craming it in where he did. Yeah Anakin was pissed when she died and was probably the only good acting Hayden did, but as soon as he leaves Tatooine its like Shmi's death never ever happened. Theres no real remorse, or emotional hangups after Anakin leaves. Not sure about everyone else, but this bugged me. It just didn't seem like a big enough event to help push him to the dark side as it should have been. I mean the death of your mother should be a huge blow, and stick with you more than 10 minutes.

 

Darth Geist,

Again, you are jumping the gun. Episode III is not out yet. There are still things to learn. It is naive to think that events haven't been going on behind the scenes. What motivation did Lucas have for not showing exactly what happened with Shmi? We don't know. It's part of the suspense. After ESB, people had to wait to see if Vader was really Luke's father. We'll find out in Episode III. If you fail to deny that we might learn something in Episode III then you come off as "trigger happy". In other words you want to take potshots at Lucas and his story while you still can, without even waiting for an essential part of the story to come out.

Here's an example: People prematurely screamed plothole when in TPM we found out Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's master and not Yoda.

But then in AOTC, in a fantastic scene, we find out that future padawans are all taught by Yoda. Therefore we can put two and two together.


Don't jump the gun. You would think that after this first example, people would have learned their lesson. I guess not.

 

This really could be a plot device, instead of a plot hole.

bjbrickm Thanks for agreeing with my way-out theory. Now, I feel emboldened to talk about my even more way-out theory that I like better. My way-way-out theory is that the far-sighted Palpatine, discovering Ani at the end of TPM, and vowing to watch his career with great interest, provides the Larses with money to buy and set Shmi free. This way, he would have much more control over her whereabouts and more control of Ani in the future. Palps is a supreme planner, often planning things decades in advance. It is not unreasonable to imagine that he sees a powerful boy who the Jedi take in, and immediately finds out more about his background. He then makes sure he has a trump card that he can hold above Anakin in the future. If this is the case, then we will see more about it in EIII, including possible reasons for her death.

Darth Geist, Grand Moff Skywalker I agree with you, that no matter what, the people who are depicted in the worst light regarding Shmi, are those from Naboo. They could have bartered three Nubians to get her freed and then given her the choice of whatever she wanted to do with her life. They needed to show some gratitude for what their son did for Naboo. We are given no hint in the films or novelizations that they ever went back, tried to free her, check up on her well-being or anything like that. When Watto tells Anakin that his mother was freed and is married, nothing in Padme's expression says that she is already aware of it.

 

"the only thing that Queen Amidala has in her possession besides that ship is her wardrobe"

I'm talking about after she leaves Tattooine. You know, in those next ten years.

"Regardless of whether or not Shmi had explosives inside her body, she still made her decision to stay on Tatooine."

What choice did she have? Stay or die. Some "decision."

bjbrickm:

There is a remote chance that this'll be explained in the sequel (although given the sheer volume of the material George has left to cover, he may well not have time). Till then, there's nothing to go on; nothing to suggest Padme ever made any effort at all--in fact, the lack of evidence suggests that she did nothing.

If she'd haggled with Watto in the past, it stands to reason that she'd have relayed the information on to Anakin--"Well, last time I tried, she was still his slave; she's well, from what I could see..." But no.

If the sequel ignores the issue as much as the last two films did, what then?

 

One thing you are all forgetting is that Watto "lost everything." That could have even meant his junk shop, his wealth etc. Owning a slave is called "collateral" He would not get rid of the one thing he can use to borrow money. He needed Shmi to get back on his feet.

 

And if they offered to put him back on his feet--and then some--in exchange for Shmi...?

 

I have always thought it was weird that Qui Gon didn't try harder to free here. Afterall, he convinced Watto to take a bet of "a pod" against Anakin. Meaning, that had Anakin lost, he would have taken the pod as conpensation.

Now, that the "pod" turned out to be a winner and its value increased, couldn't Qui Gon have traded the pod to Watto for Shmi instead of selling it? Or even buy her freedom with the pod money? It seems to me that if Watto was willing to bet the pod for the boy, he would have traded that same pod for Shmi. He was even willing to let "fate" decide who he was going to Qui Gon with. So why didn't Qui Gon try harder?

I agree, that Shmi got the shaft of this deal!

 

With what?

 

"With what?"

Anything. A ship, trade goods--hey, it's Tattooine; just load up a ship with water, send it his way and he's rich as a king.

Even if Amidala couldn't pay for it out of pocket (and it stands to reason that she could), Anakin saved an entire planet; if she asked for donations, she'd get them.

 

The Jedi knew of his mother's plight, but they won't go where they are not welcomed. The reason Jedi don't encourage attachments is because of what we saw happen. Anakin was attached to his mother, and as such that attachment lead to the Tusken Slaughter. Anakin is letting his emotions dictate his actions, instead of the other way around. He acted rashly instead of stopping to think about what he was going to do. He couldn't leave his life behind him, where Luke was able to without looking back. Look at the decisions they made. Anakin hesitated twice when he learned that Shmi had to stay. Luke had wanted to go out and do something. He was willing to leave the Lars family behind. And Luke also had trouble with attachments as well. He couldn't leave Han and Leia to possibly die on Bespin, yet it didn't matter because they would survive without his help. By taking them from birth, it allows them to avoid attachments to family members and better control over their emotions. Also if something happens to them, the Jedi will be better able to deal with the loss, rather than fly off the handle. Luke accepted the death of the Lars family, but didn't get crazy. Anakin couldn't accept his mother's death and slaughter a whole village.

The Republic doesn't exist out on Tatooine. Thus Republic credits are no good. Also as Panaka told her, if the Hutts found out someone from an important world was there, they'd be dead or used for ransom. Also, we know that Watto was rather ticked. It is very likely had someone gone back, he'd refuse to sell her. He only did when he could no longer afford to take care of her. Again, we have no proof that she didn't go back or thought about it. And even if she did, she would've been told no. Watto only gambled with Anakin as he knew that the boy wouldn't be Sebulba, as he lost many times in the past. That's why he was overconfident.

 

The issue is about Padme, sinister, not the Jedi, and the Republic credits issue has been done away with--in your presence, no less--more times than I care to look back on; in fact, on this very page, you'll find plenty of arguments against it, and against the idea that Watto wouldn't sell her. Now you're making up scenes that never happened and arguing that the Hutts make a business out of kidnapping random, unimportant people and expecting huge ransoms for them.

The PT's scripting isn't perfect, and this is one of its weaker links.