PT The Fight Between Dooku and Obi Wan Explained

So one thing I can't stand is people saying that Anakin was way stronger than Obi Wan. Many examples that people use is how Obi Wan got knocked out during the fight between him and Anakin vs Dooku. And how Anakin was able to defeat Dooku.




Before we start, I would like to point out that Dooku was Palpatine's apprentice during that time. So I don't doubt that Palpatine had told Dooku about bringing Anakin to the dark side. Of course, Palpatine planned to replace Dooku with Anakin, but Palpatine only told Dooku about Anakin joining and being an asset. (Basically, I'm trying to say Dooku and Palpatine were trying to see how good Anakin was.)

During the fight, Dooku wants to get Anakin alone to analyze his skills along with Palpatine.

So let's go over the fight again:

1. At 1:27, when Dooku force pushes Obi Wan. Don't count it as Obi Wan being weak. It's not his fault really, if he would have force pushed Anakin, Anakin would have been knocked back too. Anyways, notice how he force pushed Obi Wan and not Anakin, or not both. He wants to get Anakin alone to analyze his skills and blah blah blah.

2. At 1:46, when Obi Wan and Anakin attack, Dooku gets pissed and throws Obi Wan away from him and Anakin. (Notice how Dooku is pissed that Obi Wan keeps interrupting his battle with Anakin.) Also, notice how he force pushed ONLY Obi Wan AGAIN, and not Anakin, or not both.

3.And then of course at 1:55, he does this to make sure that Obi Wan does not interrupt their battle again. He could have force pushed both of them or Anakin the same way he did to Obi Wan. But he chose Obi Wan to get him off the battle.

So like I said before, it's not that Obi Wan is weaker than Anakin, because there isn't much you can do about being force pushed and having no time to react.

Also I strongly believe that Obi Wan would have been able to beat Dooku if Dooku's main focus wasn't to analyze Anakin. If Anakin can beat Dooku. And Obi Wan beat Anakin, I don't doubt that Obi Wan could beat Dooku. (People say that when Obi Wan fought Anakin, Anakin wasn't at his full potential) With or without potential. You can't beat your own Master using his own tricks.

So the main reason I made this was to point out why I think that Obi Wan is stronger than people say he is. But also, do notice what I have analyzed. How Dooku wanted to focus on Anakin.

 

Obi-Wan is definitely stronger than people give him credit for but I have always considered Anakin to be just a cut above him in swordsmanship and all around Force powers. It's good analyzing you've done and it makes sense for sure but I believe Anakin is just a little stronger than Kenobi

 

your argument doesn't make sense...

Dooku is focused on Anakin as you say and still manages to trump Obi-Wan despite being pre-occupied "analysing someone else"

in fact you've just made the argument Dooku is stronger than both Jedi present.

 

Good insight, but Obi-Wan is not stronger than Anikan. Remember him getting punched, choked by Anikan?

 

Hmm. I do respect your claim and see why because there are some reasons. But how can Anaking become more powerful than his own master? Without receiving and external training? I know he is way stronger in the force than Obi Wan and many many Jedi. But how can he be a better swordsman? I question the same thing with Yoda and how people say Anakin would have beaten him. How does 700-800 years of training and fighting in battles lose to 15-20 years of training and going on missions with your master? Is Anakin THAT strong.

 

Anakin was set to be the most powerful force user in the Galaxy, so of course he was stronger than Obi-Wan. He was also using the dark side with both Dooku and Obi-Wan, which added to his strength. What Obi-Wan had that Anakin didn't was the ability to let go of attachment to let the Force move through him and a lucky break to get to the high ground. Anakin lost because of arrogance, not skill.

Light saber ability is up for debate I think, they looked mostly matched in that account to me.

Also, Obi-Wan was not Anakin's master for years at that point, Anakin was a Jedi Knight, not a padawan learner.

 

In terms of Anakin vs. Obi-Wan in terms of strength, it's been said that they're equal at the time of Revenge of the Sith. Their fight dragged on so long because they both had the same fighting fighting technique, and knew how to counter whatever the other did with no one getting the upper hand. In terms of Force ability, Anakin wasn't much above Obi-Wan because he was still tapping into his power.

In terms of the fight with Dooku, the Count was more skilled in Force abilities and swordsmanship, but was still overwhelmed by a 2-on-1 fight, so had to even the odds as quickly as he could. At least that's how I saw it. The next part of the fight was testing Skywalker, as Vader did with Luke on Cloud City. Had he chosen to, he could have used the same tactics on Anakin; there doesn't seem to be any way to repel being Force choked.

 

To be fair, Dooku had to get rid of Obi-wan so that Anakin would lose his **** as he was instructed to do. Obi-wan is a good fighter, but he's not good against Dooku. That doesn't mean that Obi-wan isn't good, just that he's facing a superior Sith Lord who hasn't slacked off on his training and he's more in control than Stable Mabel.

 

I agree with you on that. No way Anakin could defeat Yoda

 

I always thought Dooku's lightsaber ability was among the best. Right there with Mace/Palps/Yoda. In the movies he toyed with Obi-Wan.

 

Yup, I remember reading somewhere, but forgot where, that the top swordsmen at the time of the PT trilogy were Mace/Sidious/Yoda/Dooku. They were considered a tier above the rest of the field.

 

Let me start by saying that Obi Wan is my favorite character in the whole saga. So you're not getting anything biased from me. He is flawed, but ultimately loyal and courageous. Without Obi Wan the Republic would have fallen long before it did and we would have no Luke or Leia.

With all of that being said... Obi Wan does not even compare with Anakin in power. It's not close. Anakin is far more powerful and more skilled with a light saber.

That was the whole point of that scene with Dooku. At the end of AOTC Dooku fights Yoda to a standstill. Incredible. As an audience that's our BIG HINT that Dooku is really really powerful and skilled since he and Yoda are about equal.

So what happens in ROTS? We are shown just how powerful Anakin has become. He wipes the floor with Dooku.

Also this scene is important because it visually shows Obi Wan holding Anakin back in confronting the Sith... Something Anakin has felt for a while and something Palpatine will prey on.

I DO agree that Palpatine was helping Dooku toss Obi Wan around though. He has that moment where he says "heeya" and kicks his head just as Dooku is grabbing Obi Wan. I've always believed Palps helped.

 

Uh...did you not see Anakin mop the floor with Dooku?

In pretty sure Episode 3 pre-dark side Anakin could have taken just about anyone.

 

That makes zero sense whatsoever. None. Anakin is far more powerful than Obi Wan. They've talked about Anakin's power from the beginning.

 

Dooku was not even close to the level of Emperor Palpatine and Palpatine was on the same level as Yoda. So just because he beat Dooku does not prove he could defeat Yoda.

 

Except that Yoda and Dooku fought in AOTC and it was an even fight - a stalemate. Yoda didn't defeat Dooku. Palpatine did defeat Yoda. He said it himself: "failed I have" and escaped with his life.

The history of the Sith is riddled with Apprentices defeating their masters. Now, Palpatine was certainly more powerful than Dooku, particularly with force lightning. This does not mean Dooku was less skilled in battle than Yoda.

You do realize that Anakin dispatched Dooku in a matter of about 30 seconds once Obi Wan was out of the way and Anakin went on the aggressive and overpowering attack. Compare that to Yoda's fight in the prior film. Nothing supports your position that Anakin's abilities weren't on par or superior to Yoda's by Episode 3, at least in light saber combat.

 

Yoda defeated Dooku. Dooku realized he was outmatched and decided to flee for it, that's why he force pushed the boulders, so Yoda would prevent Anakin and Obi-Wan from being crushed so Dooku could escape. It was obvious that Yoda was about to beat Dooku and the Count knew it. The Sidious-Yoda fight was more of a stalemate than Dooku vs Yoda. Yoda may have failed to stop the Sith but that doesnt mean he was dominated at all.

 

Dooku was in possession of the Death Star plans. He was fleeing when Obi Wan and Anakin caught up to him. Dooku knew others were in pursuit and, indeed, right after he knocked the pillar over Padme and clone troopers showed up. He wasn't running from Yoda. He was trying to get the Death Star plans away from the Republic and had been trying to escape since the battle began.

So when Yoda says "fought well you have, my old padawan," you think that meant Yoda was about to win? Or that it was a stalemate like I'm saying.

In the fight with Palpatine Yoda lost his light saber, a big no no, and was tossed across the senate chambers. Cmon.

 

Wow, that sounds like a well-worded constructive argument to me.

 

Well remember Yoda was using his force powers to counter Emperor's attacks. Idk, it just seemed to me Yoda was trying to capture Dooku and not kill him. Yoda was blocking Dooku's saber strikes with ease, at least that's how I interpreted it. I felt like Yoda could've finished Dooku off. But when it's near the end of the fight you can tell Dooku knows that he isn't going to win this duel against Yoda.

 

Not in ROTS. Another five years of training hard and immersing himself in the dark side and he would surpass both Yoda and Palpatine. Yoda would have beaten Dooku because he is ahead of him in terms of power. But Dooku needed to get going, so he chose to flee.

"And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stones Interview, 2005.

"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 204

 

I consider Anakin to be better than Maul and Dooku(obviously) by Ep. 3 but I always knew at that point in time, the only ones who could compete with Emperor Palpatine would be the 2 at the top of the Jedi Council. So the physical detriments that Anakin took did effect how strong he could've become. When all discussion fails, just see what Master G. Lucas has to say on the matter

 

ABC Logic doesn't work on Star Wars. You need to analyze their fighting styles. Dooku is using Makashi, an archaic lightsaber form for only ''lightsaber duels'' ... Which means Dooku is using his lightsaber for only duels, while Obi-Wan isn't. His Soresu style is very defensive, and it's good for deflecting blaster bolts and strong ferocious, unpredictable attacks.

However, Obi-Wan doesn't have anything to disturb Dooku's dueling only focusing saber style, therefor Dooku is like kryptonite of Obi-Wan.

Anakin is using Djem-so, which focusing on physical strength. And physical strength destroys the skill focusing saber style, which is Makashi.

''His (Dooku) own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head.''

----Revenge of the Sith Novelization

Dooku also lost to Quinlan Vos, because Vos was very very unpredictable, and that's a problem for someone like Dooku, who is using his vast Jedi knowledge against the likes of classic predictable Jedi masters like Kenobi.

Kenobi's lightsaber style is perfect for fighting against strength and unpredictability focusing opponents, but not against Dooku.

That's the rock-paper-scissors relationship here.

Dooku isn't belonging that list, and yes the rest of them is true.

 

I do recall a Lucas comment that at the time of Return of the Jedi, Vader would mop the floor with Yoda. Though this may be outdated, as Yoda was only a Jedi trainer back then and not thought to be involved in combat.