Arena The First Basketball Draft

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by The Great No One, Apr 7, 2011.

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  1. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    Dec 12, 2006
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    Dude I'm one of the biggest basketball fans ever so I've seen many videos of Wilt and Kareem and I still would pick the latter.

    For the majority of his career Wilt's only legit competition was an aging Bob Pettit and Bill Russell, a guy he could never beat. Kareem had to deal with old Wilt, Bill Walton, Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Wes Unseld, Bill Laimbeer, Robert Parish/Kevin McHale, Willis Reed, Karl Malone, Elvin Hayes, Charles Barkley and Dave Cowens.

    Not to mention that Kareem played after the NBA made the official rule change which widened the lane so centers just couldn't bull rush through. Granted the rule was created because of Wilt but check out Wilt's stats after the rule change before the 1964-1965 season and how his scoring percentage dropped. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html You don't think Kareem could have had that output had he been born a few years earlier? Not to mention Wilt was one of the all time choke artists while Kareem could ball deep in the playoffs

    Now I almost wish I'd picked Kareem as I marshal some very good arguments for him, but there's no way I could justify passing up Jordan, especially as I can get some good arguments for him as well.
  2. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    one thing you aren't taking into account there is that wilt also started getting... larger and slower at that point too. second half of his career, pretty much exactly at the point you're talking about, he quit being as explosive. since he was no longer the pure athlete anymore he had to play harder, which caused his scoring production to drop as well as the change you're talking about.

    and wilt never had any really good help either. oh, and most lists i've seen have bill russell above pretty much everyone else you just listed. bill russell was phenomenal. but guess who is normally above him on the lists as well? wilt and jordan.
  3. EmpireForever Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
    Maybe I should have researched a little better. It did come down to those two, though. Oh well. All I've ever heard from Chamberlain's peer group is that they were terrified of him(and just because Russel beat him all the time doesn't mean Russel actually beat him. Russel's team beat him. But let's get the attention off of Russel for a while so I can steal him later).
  4. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    Remember to post links to the player, regardless of how famous.

    Draft Order

    Round 1

    1. PointGiven Michael Jordan
    2. DarthMcClain Kobe Bryant
    3. RX Sith Magic Johnson
    4. Empire Forever Wilt Chamberlain
    5. DarthTunick On The Clock
    6. Gunny
    7. NightHunter319
    8. Shurron
    9. New_York_Jedi
    10. JediMaster1511
    11. tom
    12. Yak

    Round 2

    1. Yak
    2. tom
    3. JediMaster1511
    4. New_York_Jedi
    5. Shurron
    6. Nighthunter319
    7. Gunny
    8. DarthTunick
    9. EmpireForever
    10. RX SIt
    11. DarthMcClain
    12. PointGiven


    Player List

    Kobe Bryant
    Magic Johnson
    Michael Jordan
    Wilt Chamberlain

    Coach List


    Leave the list alone, only Judges and the Commish can update the list. If you want it updated ask, it should be done in a timely manner.
  5. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    oh, and just for the record, the only two players i ever consistently hear arguments for the GOAT? jordan and chamberlain. they're on every list, and everyone else varies depending on the fan loyalties.
  6. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    star 5
    Well that's the point isn't it? Kareem was able to sustain himself and have 20 points per game until he was 38 and played until he was 42. Wilt never went above 20 points per game after he hit 30 unless you count the year he only played 12 games. He was a great rebounder too, but Kareem was right behind him, and Kareem's more lanky frame made him an expert blocker.

    I'm going to take the guy who averaged 30 PPG as a Buck and over 20 PPG until he was 38. Don't forget that killer skyhook. Sure Wilt was one of the few who could block it along with Hakeem and Manute Bol, but that skyhook is nearly unbeatable. Wilt crashed as soon as he hit 30 and the rules were changed.

    Also I thought we were going by arguments, not other people's lists. If so, I'll just travel back to the city and find my Bill Simmons Book of Basketball Copy which has Kareem ahead of Wilt.

    I'll agree about Bill Russell but most people will go for scorers in the first round I think and Bill wasn't much of one.
  7. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    we're going by their physical prime PG... and in his prime, the ONLY person i would take over him is jordan. and even then it's debatable for me personally.

  8. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    And Wilt's prime is skewed given he played with favorable rules for Centers. If Kareem's prime was in the reduced lane era I firmly believe based on the evidence that he would have averaged the same amount and with the untouchable sky hook and his blocking prowess he would have had the advantage over Wilt if there was less lane. And if we're going by a widened lane, Kareem's stats vs Wilt's crash proves that the former is better in that regard.
  9. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    don't know that for sure. wilt lost his knees, which means he had to completely reinvent his game in the middle of his career. think of sabonis, same thing happened, so he ended up putting on a lot of weight and turning into a bull instead of the insanely graceful player he'd been. pretty much the same career arch as wilt really. so to be blunt, we DON'T know how much that rule change actually effected him.

    EDIT

    also, why the heck are we arguing this right now? i mean, really, this just seems silly now that i really think about it.
  10. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    star 5
    Perhaps. It's one of those big what-if's though, but I firmly stand behind Kareem. In a one on one matchup, it's a push for me, but if it goes to that team game or even a 2 v 2, I'll take Kareem over Wilt
  11. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
  12. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Thanks for arguing about Kareem. Really appreciate it. ::looks for another guy at 12::
  13. Shadow_of_Durron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2003
    star 6
    I agree, Yak. Damn this argument for drawing attention to him! If there were ever a player likely to slip under everyone's radar, it would be the NBA's all-time leading scorer.
  14. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

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    Dec 12, 2006
    star 5
    Lol there's no way Kareem would have dropped to you, especially since DarthTunick, lovers of all things Lakers, has the next pick.
  15. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    BUT I DONT KNOW ANYONE ELSEEEEEEEEe
  16. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    [image=http://www.lakersuniverse.com/pictures/kareem_abdul_jabbar_skyhook.jpg]


    5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    A finesse center (as opposed to someone like Shaq) who has the most difficult shot to defend..........the skyhook. Also, I've decided on a name for my team: The L.A. Nicholsons.

    They beat Boston!: 2009-2010 L.A. Lakers: Back-to-Back World Champions :cool:
  17. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    yeah, it's hard to imagine Tunick not taking Kareem.

    Still, I'd say only Kobe was a slip-up so far. I've made Magic > Jordan arguments before, so I could have easily gone along with Jordan, Magic, Wilt, Kareem, or one other going first. But, I've loved already watching the Wilt vs. Kareem arguments ... especially since Kareem hasn't even been (officially) drafted yet). That's pretty much what this draft is all about, right?
  18. Darth Tunes SfC Part III Commissioner

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2000
    star 10
    Magic was going to be my 1st pick, with Kareem my backup as my first selection. I don't want to reveal any hints as to why I wish to choose in round 2, but I hope that he's still available.

    They beat Boston!: 2009-2010 L.A. Lakers: Back-to-Back World Champions :cool:
  19. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Shocking pick there, Tunick. Almost as shocking as the first overall pick :p

    Also, [face_laugh] @ the team name. Perfect!

    I'd agree with Inty about Kobe being a little early, but that could easily end up ok in the end. Have to see how the rest of the draft plays out :)
  20. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    If this draft is 10 years later, no one is saying Kobe is early.
  21. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Perhaps, but I'm not so sure. It's only a matter of a few spots, though, so it's all nitpicking.

    I have a feeling this draft is going to as much be about who gets assigned to which event (one on one, two on two, etc) as the draft itself. Might be a lot easier to cover draft "mistakes" in this draft than in others... but that's something that'll be easier to tell down the line.
  22. New_York_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2002
    star 6
    In ten years Kobe going two will still be a stretch.
  23. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Also, this is focused on a player's prime. I don't think Kobe's going to do much from here on out that would have any bearing on his prime.
  24. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    kobe should be second round. i'm pretty much solid on bill simmons top twelve. not quite that order, but that group of people. but he's top fifteen, not ten.

    anyway, it can be covered up. i don't think having a top twelve pick is completely required in this one. it'll help, but kobe in a one on one is beating most people. if he doesn't have to worry about anyone else getting shots (he takes WAY too many) then he's not losing often.

    be interesting to see how things go i have to admit.
  25. MandaloreYak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2004
    star 5
    Everyone I know would be a good pick is already gone.
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