Arena The First Basketball Draft

two things. one, this is on a pace to take about 4 years. two, since it is moving so slow judges can apparently cast their "official" votes then change them four days later, which is a bit suspect.

 

This is taking... A good deal of time... A great deal of time...

This comment from Sabonis on Galis is hilarious. Yes, I'm preparing to defend my Euro players if I need to.

To my opinion Galis is capable to score with every way. Whatever his adversary tries will fail.

 

yeah, i think i'm done. don't really want to spend a great deal of time arguing in this thread only to be out-argued when presumably the time for arguments has passed. and then lose in the finals to pointgiven in the year 2016, which is realistically probably the best i can hope for.

sorry guys. hope someone will take on my team. it's a good one.

 

Well, I wasn't going to argue, till I saw like that 1 comment, combined with the time... Time re-energizes me. But my team is still for grabs.

 

tom: that happens sometimes. and i think i said i was never actually sure on that particular match in the first place. but judges are allowed to change their minds if they realize they made the wrong decision.

i'll bug R...J later. try to get this moving faster.

 

I'm now looking at the 3 on 3 with Carter and Pippen. That is very interesting, and one of the hardest to me. I've always thought Pippen was a bit overrated myself, and he's one of the players I've seen a good deal of. Then again, the fans and analysts whose opinions I use for my arguments would seem to disagree with me lol. I know he's not the amazing offensive force that Carter is, so his D must be gettin him some big ups. I think it's a really good match, and I could see why either side would want to argue. I took a (very) cursory look at the other matches and I agree with Trimaj, but that means nothing as I don't know half those players.

That leaves Mullin and Duncan, and Kidd and Malone. Definitely like the cohesion more on the 2nd team, and of course Duncan is the best there and Mullin is the worst. 3 on 3 cohesion comes into play pretty well, as does D. I can see better team D on the 1st team. It's a very, very interesting match.

See, now I'm bored and looking at other matches.

Mm. According to some votes Malone is better. Now I kinda wish I'd watched more Duncan. Although I did try, but I fell asleep.

 

i have sent RJ a message, just waiting on him basically.

EDIT

malone was good yak, i'm not really saying he isn't. i mean he's a hall of famer, no question, he just doesn't deserve to be as highly rated to me. the choking thing just really puts a major damper on him for me, and i even LIKE karl malone.

i don't like duncan very much, but he's just plain better. we've seen how good defense can destroy a team that's too offensively oriented, which is what the team of kidd, malone and carter is. and you're wrong, mullin is not the worst person in that group, vince carter is. mullin had a better shooting percentage and averaged 2 points per game less than carter has, not to mention defense was a bit in mullins favor.

 

Hm... Maybe... I don't remember really caring about Mullin. D-stats seem to favor Carter, in terms of points scored on, and blocks and even D win shares. Not that I think any of those stats tells the whole story, and there may be stuff I'm not considering. I don't know why I never cared for Mullin. Perhaps it's his lack of really being a force driving, from what I can remember and read? Whereas maybe Vince doesn't have the outside shooting that Mullin does. Maybe it evens out, although I think in a 3 on 3 driving would be a bit more effective just because you don't have the option of getting great help all the time. Though it's definitely at that area where help starts to become more effective, as opposed to 2 on 2.

Then again, an outside shooter can open up that court and keep matchups isolated. I guess Pippen would be the main "driver" especially since he did that way better than shooting as well. Pippen probably is gonna be the primary ballhandler there, and Mullin is def the 3rd option. I think he's just a bit out of place, but maybe it's just a bit. But the other 2 are very good passers so they can keep him part of the game with a drive-and-dish, or something.

I do think Duncan has the advantage over Malone but it'd be a great thing to watch. If Kidd had a better shot, it would be extremely tough to beat this team. I guess outside shooting is the main thing they lack, although I think Mullin and Carter are pretty close here.

I'm mainly doing this for some discussion now. Discussion on anything would be nice about now.

 

i find it ironic it's that match you start talking about.

might ave something to say later. tired and in class ATM

 

::Irony:: ::Yak::
::Irony:: ::Yak::
::Irony::
::Yak::
::Yak:: ::Irony::
::Yak:: ::Irony::

Didn't catch the irony.

Wow, thanks alot formatting, way to ruin my awesome diagram. Oh well...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154739&page=4
http://forums.interbasket.net/f11/the-best-european-player-ever-213/p5.html

There. Now that I've saved those I can turn my comp off.

 

Sorry about the delay - I just finished moving and have been busy, and with some internet troubles on top of that. I think these are all the ones that need a tiebreaker, but let me know if I missed one or two. Because I'm still really pressed for time, I'm not going into deep explanations.

Garnett/Ginobli - Thomas tops Ginobli, but in a halfcourt game Garnett's interior advantage wins out.

Malone/Wilkins/Jones

Duncan/Pippen/Mullin - really, really close.

Howard/Bellamy - Kobe's going to be really tough to guard outside, but there's no stopping Howard here, either.

Bogut/Arizin/Stoudamire - really just because of Amare here. Though I think either of these two teams might well lose to any of the other 3-person teams in the round.

 

I just went back and actually read that. That was hilarity.

 

last two matches later. just couldn't get to it yesterday.

 

aight, we get's the last two matchups now.


Matchups

The East Coast Bias Division

Match 1

PointGiven: New York Counter Terrorists (a Spike Lee Joint) 2

Game 2: 24 Minute game (halfcourt) ? Michael Jordan

Game 7: C: David Robinson PF: Dennis Rodman SF: Paul Pierce SG: Michael Jordan PG: John Stockton
SG/PG: Dennis Johnson SF/SG: Bernard King C/PF: Jack Sikma PF/C: Pau Gasol PG/SG: Baron Davis SF/PF/SG: Glen Rice
Coach: Red Auerbach

vs 

DarthTunick: The L.A. Nicholsons 3

Game 2: 24 Minute game (halfcourt) ? James Worthy

Game 7: C: Kareem Abdul Jabbar PG: Steve Nash SG: Reggie Miller PF: Kevin McHale SF: James Worthy
Bench: B1: Robert Horry B2: Alonzo Mourning B3: Deron Williams B4: Larry Nance B5: Peja Stojakovic B6: Rasheed Wallace
Head coach: Chuck Daly

Match 2

EmpireForever: The Enfeebled Potential of the Superannuated 4

Game 2: One v One Halfcourt (24 minute game) -- Dan Issel

Game 7: C: Wilt Chamberlain SF:Charles Barkley PF: Kevin Garnett PG: Maurice Cheeks SG: Emanuel Ginobli
Bench: G:Joe Dumars F:Rick Barry G:Sidney Moncrief F:Alex English F/C:Billy Cunningham C/Fan Issel
Coached by Rudy Tomjanovich

 vs 

New_York_Jedi: The Rucker Park All-Stars 1

Game 2: 24 Minute game (halfcourt) ? Connie Hawkins

Game 7: Oscar Robertson, Julius Erving, Isiah Thomas, Clyde Frazier, Bob McAdoo, Wes Unseld, David Thompson, Dikembe Mutombo, Connie Hawkins, Drazen Petrovic, Spencer Haywood (Little bit of lineup clarity here would be kinda nice)
Coach: Tex Winter

Match 3

NightHunter319: Dan Gilbert's Wet Dream of A Team 3

Game 2: One v One Halfcourt 24 min: Gerald Wallace 

Game 7: Starters: PG: Kevin Johnson SG: Dwayne Wade SF: John Havlicek PF: Dirk Nowitzki C: Hakeem Olajuwan
Bench: SG Ray Allen SG/SF Tracy McGrady PF/C Nate Thurmond C Yao Ming PF/SF Gerald Wallace PG Rajon Rondo
Coach: Coach K
vs 

JediGunship: Searching for a Clue 2

Game 2: One v One Halfcourt (24 minute game) - Jerry West 

Game 7: 11) JediGunship: Larry Bird, Jerry West, Pete Maravich, Willis Reed,Elvin Hayes, Ben Wallace, Sam Jones, Lenny Wilkins, Chauncey Billups, Detlef Schrempf, Dan Majerle (Again, lineup clarity would be really nice)
Coach: K.C. Jones

The West Coast Sun Division

Match 4

tom: the mercury metal heads 3

Game 2: One v One Halfcourt (24 minute game) - derrick rose
Game 7: Full team v Full team (best of seven series) - C: Bill Russell PF: Shawn Kemp SF: Lebron James SG: George Gervin PG: Gary Payton
BN: Derrick Rose BN: Carmelo Anthony BN: Mitch Richmond BN: Artis Gilmore BN: Bill Laimbeer BN: Sam Perkins
Coach: Larry Brown

 vs 

MandaloreYak: Atmospheric Fireballers 2

Game 2: One v One Halfcourt (24 minute game) Brad Daugherty

Game 7: Full team v Full team (best of seven series) C: Shaq PF: Moses Malone SF: Dominique Wilkins SG/PG/SF: Penny Hardaway PG: Nate Archibald
Bench: C: Robert Parrish SG: Nikos Galis PG: Panagiotis Giannakis SF: Bobby Jones C: Brad Daugherty PF/SF/SG: Fragiskos Alvertis
Coach: Don Nelson

Match 5

Shadow of Durron: The Mexico City Human Centipedes 3

Game 2: 24 Minute game (halfcourt) ? Arvydas Sabonis 

Game 7: Full team v Full team (best of seven series) C - Bill Walton PF - Tim Duncan SF - Kevin Durant SG - Scottie Pippen PG - Chris Paul
6th Man - Grant Hill BN - Arvydas Sabonis BN - Chris Webber BN - Chris Mullin BN - Mark Price BN - Blake Griffin
Head Coach - Larry Bird


vs 

JediMaster1511: New York Brutananadilewski 2

Game 2: One v One Halfcourt (24 minute game) Earl "The Pearl" Monroe 

Game 7: Full team v Full team (best of seven series) Karl Malone - PF Patrick Ewing - C/PF Jason Kidd - PG Allen Iverson - SG/PG Horace Grant - PF/C Earl "The pearl" Monroe - G Mark Jackson - PG/SG Kiki Vandeweghe - SF Vince Carter - SF/SG John Starks - SG Charles Oakley - PF/C (again, clarity about starting lineup please...)
Coach: Phil Jackson


Match 6

RX_Sith: Magic Mayhem 3

Game 2: 24 Minute game (halfcourt) ? Bob Pettit

Game

 

SF Larry Bird, SG Jerry West, PG Pete Maravich, PF Willis Reed, C Elvin Hayes, PF/C Ben Wallace, SG Sam Jones, SG/SF Lenny Wilkins, PG Chauncey Billups, SF Detlef Schrempf, SG Dan Majerle

Fixed.

 

Karl Malone - PF Patrick Ewing - C/PF Jason Kidd - PG Allen Iverson - SG/PG Horace Grant - PF/C Earl "The pearl" Monroe - G Mark Jackson - PG/SG Kiki Vandeweghe - SF Vince Carter - SF/SG John Starks - SG Charles Oakley - PF/C

Starting five for this matchup.

PG - Mark Jackson
SG - Allen Iverson
SF - Kiki Vandeweghe
PF - Karl Malone
C - Patrick Ewing

Coach: Phil Jackson

 

I didn't realize that we were supposed to send in a starting line-up. Like, I put Manu in there on my roster because he's a fan favorite, but I'm sure that, depending on the gameplan and who was starting for the other team, Rudy would decide who the better match was at SG.

 

yea... that was something of an oversight on my part. i realized as i was putting that up that i was going to have to ask for starting lineups along with the other lineups. otherwise you end up with this mess.

 

Starting Lineup:

5- Mutombo
4- McAdoo
3- Erving
2- Frazier
1- Robertson

I'll have arguments for the 1v1 later.

 

I'll start my arguements with the one on one game here. I believe in this matchup Monroe has the edge. His inside game is pretty good and if you play him close he has that legendary spin move that has left many defenders confused and sometimes sitting on the court. He is quicker and more agile and did it for a long time. Another thing to factor is stamina. This is a 24 minute game, and Sabonis averaged 24 minutes a game. You may be wondering "But this is a 24 minute game JM, so he would make it by his average." Exactly, his average was 24 MPG game, meaning that he will be tiring later into the game, as opposed to Monroes 32 MPG, which would leave him with some gas left in the tank. Having to chase Earl down will drain his batteries. Range, agility, and stamina wins it for The Pearl here.



I'll address the team one later.

 

that isn't taking into account his actual prime...

 

I pressme in terms of stamina? Sabonis only averaged more than 24 twice, and only cracked 30 once, so it makes little difference I believe.

If it is not in terms of stamina, please clarify what you mean.

 

i'm talking about what you're using is when he was 31 years old. that is NOT his physical prime. he had dead knees by then, and still guarded shaq better than anyone else ever had. and shaq was still pretty damned good then. he also outplayed robinson at the same age.

watch clips of him when he was younger. you see someone far more athletic than the 31 year old with shot knees.

 

Monroe played much of his career on bad knees as well, and was still a phenomenal player who won a ring during the 1970's. Guys like Havilchek, Rick Barry, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar highlight that decade. Even Dr.J played some ball in the NBA during the 70's, as did Moses Malone, these guys are top tier guys and some of th ebest to ever play. Earl Monroe's style also made an impresion on the NBA.

 

not saying he didn't at all. just saying you're underestimating sabonis is all. and a seven footer with bad knees is not really the same thing as someone earl's size with bad knees. just saying.

anyway, i'm nowhere near decided on any of these other than the really obvious ones like the jordan one.