ST The First Order-Resistance Conflict

"To become legend themselves" sounds rather like a First Order attitude, I would have thought the drive was to help others in the galaxy and particularly free slaves and other oppressed.

 

Sure. Sounds pretty legendary to me.

 

I would have thought that the Republic, having previously ignored slavery in the Outer Rim and then went through two decades of oppression and tyranny under the guise of the Galactic Empire would have resolved to learn from the mistakes of the past, created a brighter Republic that stands for all people and not let a group like the First Order gain any kind of foothold and bring that oppression back...apparently not.

 

Good point. Obviously they *somehow" overlooked working conditions on Canto Blight...

 

I think the issue is it's a big galaxy and the New Republic wasn't even as together as the old one. It didn't have the military force of the Republic under Palpatine, and per Bloodline the Senate wasn't very effective at getting anything done. On the one hand the Senate was full of people who wanted the Empire back because it had more central control and then on the other hand it was full of people averse to any central control for fear of the return of tyranny. The galaxy was still a total mess after what the Empire did and 30 years was not enough time to clean it all up.

 

And then got their butts kicked the next time that we saw them by a massive Imperial retaliation and were forced to run. And when they did win their big victory over the Empire, they concentrated most of their forces and had seemingly dozens of ships, hundreds of fighters, and thousands of soldiers/pilots. Resources that they'd spent DECADES building up.

Not the same thing as here I'm afraid.

 

seems pretty similar to me. The Rebel alliance was an amalgamation of a bunch of smaller groups from across the galaxy. The story of the formation of the Rebel alliance as told by Star Wars Rebels started us off with 4 people and a droid in a cargo ship. There were bigger groups, but we didnt get to see them until later. I think that's what they were going for at the end of the film. Here we are again, a small group in a modified cargo freighter facing impossible odds. One of them also so happens to be a force adept trying to keep the jedi afloat.
We haven't seen IX yet, so how are we supposed to know The First Order is as successful as they hoped at their galactic blitzkrieg? There could be entire planets worth of dissidents who were not apart of the New Republic, such as Ryloth, who would never tolerate another Authoritarian government controlling most of the galaxy.

 

While that makes the most sense, I feel like these films are lacking that type of creativity and are taking the "It's a movie, don't ask questions, just enjoy it" approach. So I'm guessing the Rebels will have amassed a large army and will go on to take down the First Order once and for all.

 

From a saga perspective I guess I'm just not sold on the progression or the stakes. It doesn't feel climatic part of the story, it just feels like a retread.

If this were EP 3, or EP 4, it would be really interesting to see how a rebellion forms from just a handful of people, after the Republic is turned into the Empire, and how that tiny group eventually gets powerful enough to save the galaxy. The OT never showed us how the group starts off, (other than that deleted scene in EP3 w the leaders planning something) but we see them getting stronger, or winning, and finally saving the galaxy.

But as such, we're now seeing the restart of that rebellion in the second to last episode, or the very last episode potentially of the saga story, and told we need to generate hope to get them to spread across the galaxy and save it. The "start of a rebellion" doesn't make sense, or feel right as an end of story element. It should be near the beginning (as it already is, in fact, back during pre-OT days) So to me it feels weirdly placed. If this was a 'we're the rebels, and we need to finally come together, after decades of fighting, to finally stop this evil" that would be one thing. Like a one last battle to end all battles. But this is like a retread of what came before. And to see Luke say... "this war is just starting and the rebellion is born today, and I will not be the last Jedi". Um...like the war has been going on for 7 episodes now. It's not the start, this is the end.

 

I hope they do something new and different with the Resistance so it isn't a retread... but yeah, it's very possible they won't.

 

I will really role my eyes if the resistance won despite the lack of a competent leadership.

As we know Leia will probably be gone and Rey, Finn, Poe have no leadership skills whatsoever.

They have no people as support other than those 15-20 members in MF, no weapons, ships etc

I am afraid the resistance plot will again be the weakest part.

It wasnt fun in TFA or TLJ i doubt it will be fun in 9.

 

Yeah, I was replying to a post that twisted logic.

 

THE FIRST ORDER

 

This is my two cents in what we have seen so far. Please feel free to correct me.

The First Order has tried to learn from the mistakes of the Galactic Empire. Namely an emphasis on quality over quantity. Shields on tie fighters. Extensive training for Stormtroopers and officers. They have built a sizable military capable of occupying all major systems in the galaxy in a few weeks according to Rey in the Last Jedi. Given the destruction of the NR fleet the insinuation is that these worlds are not very defended if at all.

Okay, basically the FO is doomed because it's too small to conquer the galaxy. They will need to occupy every world, even the much larger Galactic Empire could not do this. Any world from the 1.3 million inhabited worlds in the Star Wars galaxy could churn out ships, soldiers and material for the rebellion. This will stretch the FO thin.

Now the Empire had two things going for it. They could recruit men quickly and from the Galaxy. However every FO trooper and officer is inducted as a child and brainwashed. So it will take 18 years to train a Stormtrooper. This means the army can't take losses or attrition; especially in guerilla warfare. They have built an army designed to win a conventional war. The sort of losses they take in Last Jedi are catastrophic even if they can replace the ships and even if they start off with more soldiers.
Likewise, all the infrastructure, military factories and the like was built up during the Clone Wars and expanded on. Where is the FO going to get supplies on Kashykk or fuel when it's getting resources from the Unknown regions. Factories in the Core won't build Star destroyers or tie fighters.

Killing the Senate means they can't negotiate the surrender of the Republic. If you kill the people you would negotiate with them you can't use the State to take control.

Lack of pro Imperial sentiment. Palpatine relied on having won the Clone Wars to corrupt the Republic. The FO is launching an external invasion as a foreign invading army and openly stated that it intends to butcher, enslave and subjugate the galaxy. Palpatine did not get up like Hux and spell out to the Senate what he was doing. Basically the FO has no political legitimacy so nobody will support them in the Galaxy. The vast bulk of people would rightly see the FO as monstrous and seek to destroy it and all its members. A few corrupt officials and industrialists won't be a reliable caste to keep the population in line.

The NR had 30 years to establish itself. Which means the generation who were in the rebel alliance are still alive. This is literally billions of soldiers as potential activists and reservists who could act as officers and train new recruits. Lots of people will have military experience. The FO lacks this experience entirely. All of its troops are unblooded. They will also likely be in positions of authority in local governments or security authorities. In other words, you would expect this to turn many worlds against the FO.

Essentially the FO is doomed. It is completely relying upon a blitzkrieg campaign hoping that it's opponent will surrender. The second the galaxy actually starts fighting back they won't be able to replace their men and material. It will be Death by a thousand cuts.

 

Have you read the Aftermath trilogy? Palpatine left a contingency plan for the FO. I think they have resources in the unknown galaxy also there was something going on in Jakku as far as powers/weapons. We never got to really peel all the layers of that onion back in Aftermath. There’s been echos of Aftermath all in this new trilogy I just don’t have sense enough to put it all together. I’d strongly suggest reading those books if you want answers about the FO and what their future plans could be.

 

Aftermath was junk. The FO was known but as we saw in TFA Poe was surprised at what he saw. So to show them basically in control after at most a few days is completely ridiculous.

So if we go off of TLJ the NR is finished and somehow all their ships. What's left was destroyed by the FO in TLJ.

If we go off what the movies show the FO would be in charge for decades as there is no resistance material left to fight with.

RJ left a complete mess for 9. Unless somehow the NR/resistance has their own secret force in the unknown regions.

 

tl;dr--because them is the bad guys

 

They can always win if everyone else decides to capitulate. But I agree with most of your points.

Their new Commander In Chief is their latest, largest handicap IMO

 

I know. It was weird how he had seniority over the Dreadnought Captain who was clearly older and would have been about the right age to have actually had military experience during the Galactic Civil War.

Given that Snoke says he is a sharp tool it suggests he has acquired his role based on loyalty as opposed to any merit or skill.

Why is somebody in their late 20s early 30s who has never been in battle or fought a Galactic campaign in charge of the FO military? He's certainly not Alexander the Great material.

Also they are relying on slave soldiers. This is an extremely dangerous thing for an unpopular totalarian regime to be doing. It means those you rely on for your power are being themselves exploited by your nation. Clones can be programmed with chips. These Stormtroopers aren't and can rebel as was shown by Finn.

Also, in order for their war machine to work they would have to nationalise and take over various industries. They don't have an economy. So either they pay for this by essentially looting the Galaxy (which would turn even more people against them) or they take over the war industries themselves (which would turn all those industrialists on Canto Bight against them).

Also they just lost the Supremacy, at least 19 Star Destroyers, Starkiller Base and a Dreadnought. Millions of FO personnel have been killed at this point. Not only does this show you can beat the FO but it means that what was probably their "1st Fleet" and most elite units were slaughtered.

 

I was actually meaning the Supreme Leader. Kylo Ren

 

Yeah, how much actual military knowledge or skill does Kylo have? Enough to competently run the FO? Same can be asked of Snoke I suppose, although I haven't read the novelisation yet so maybe there is some back-story...
And if Kylo is the leader, and we have seen that he is a poor, emotion-driven, strategist , and Hux is second down the list, man...they are in a shambles.

With any luck Captain Kanady got to an escape pod, but I doubt it.

I remember feeling when Leia was talking about 'hope' and having all they needed right there to keep the fight going at the end of the movie that they would probably be ok and were stressing for nothing, the First Order just don't instill any sense of menace at this point. The lost their first Supreme Leader, The Supremacy, a heap of capital ships during that fiasco and it was only a few days ago that Starkiller got blown up.

Morale has to be pretty low.

 

Come think about it, in the deleted scene the Stormtrooper says he is surprised Finn made officer. So presumably most of the officers and flight crew are also inducted child soldiers. Which means the descendents of Imperial Officers like Hux and mercenaries like Phasma are a minority. So they're relying on brainwashed sycophants who have been bred to obey orders blindly and so probably lack initiative, critical thinking and these are incredibly important for an officer Core and for the higher ranks.