ST The First Order-Resistance Conflict

The main problem is simple: In TFA the FO was a rising threat at best.
Then came TLJ, wich shows events that occured just a FEW DAYS after TFA, but the FO already took over the galaxy. Even with the countless losses after the Starkiller base desctruction.
Plus there's something else to consider: taking what was shown in the PT, only Palpatine would be skilled enough to rule the Galaxy the way he did with the Empire.
And that's a major plot point : who was the genius behind this FO ? Snoke ? Former imperial officers?
And Palpatine ideology was really about ideals or about his persona ? I take the latter as truth, son without someone as great as Palpatine there's little logic abou the Empire ressurgence.
See, many want to compare the Galaxy with Nazi German, so remember this: Hitler didn't leave any political heir that could reagroup the Nazi Party.
So did Palpatine.
Hence the flaw in this trilogy.

 

A "rising threat at best"? How do you miss the part where the FO launched a surprise attack on the Republic and killed their leadership?

 

Yes, good thing there was no fascism after (or before) Hitler.

 

Our grandparents totally wasted their time resisting the fascist scourge.


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Yeah they all died for nothing because like... bad things happened after 30 years of peace... I thought they would make us peaceful foreverrrrrrr....

/s

 

I was happy once with my friends 20 years ago. My life has been one long happy after ever since.


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Careful if you are ever unhappy, all that happy will for no happy.

 

To RedXavier and DarthPhilosopher you both seem to be under the notion that those disagreeing with your viewpoints are being blind, but it seems like neither of you are listening to other viewpoints and vehemently seem to disregard them. It's great that you like the story, but it just doesn't make sense that the New Republic would be so blind and complacent as to not have stronger protocols in the event of what happened to the Hosnian System. It's just hard to fathom that people who spent decades fighting to bring back peace and democracy wouldn't do more to protect it. That other planets wouldn't have their own standing armies to face off against a possible threat after all of the things that have happened such as the Clone Wars and the Civil War that occurred after it.

 

They simply didn't know the threat was so significant. It's like asking why humans in alien invasion movies don't 'do more to prepare'.

 

Ignorance is not an excuse and even if they didn't believe in the threat of the First Order to believe that a single fleet in a single star system would be enough of a deterrent to any upstart is just unconscionable.

 

Did you not read the stuff where I said had more than one fleet... it just wasn't federal?

I mean if someone commandeered the Republic it would be awkward to have a massive centralised fleet.

 

How doesn't it make sense? You seem to be going by the notion that once a people finish a war, they enact a plan to make sure it never happens again and then succeed. How often has that actually happened in our history? Besides, the whole point of the story is that the Republic were complacent and lulled into a false sense of security after decades of peace. Meanwhile, a snake was in the grass just waiting for the right moment. The FO would have waited decades more if they needed to, regardless of what the Republic did and regardless of any notion of protocols and designated survivor stuff they had, the FO were always going to attack.

"Ignorance is not an excuse" is awful reasoning, especially since it's basically a position of hindsight. You're basically advocating (in part at least) for a huge Republic standing military for 30 years, with no-one to fight, just "in case". This fundamentally misunderstands why these people fought a rebellion in the first place.

 

So because of their fear someone would be able to commandeer the Republic in the same way Palpatine did they decided that it would be best to severely limit themselves, even though enemies would see this as an opportunity to exploit such a weakness? It's still hard to believe that the First Order would grow so strong in the unknown regions and the rest of the known galaxy just accepts them instead of gathering their own vast resources to repel them when they made their move.

 

@DarkGingerJedi Listen, this gish galloping and arguments from incredulity you’re doing are getting very tiring for everyone else and are eating up the thread. If you’re so determined to disagree, you should just agree to disagree, because the rest of us are getting tired of beating this dead horse.

The rest of the Galaxy doesn’t just accept them? Where is your evidence for this claim?

 

So they didn't want to keep tabs, remained woefully ignorant of what their enemy was doing and thought a few words on paper would be enough of a deterrent? Demilitarizing to the point where they can't even defend themselves or mount a counter-attack is just unfathomable. Their fear of becoming another empire, basically allowed for the empire to be reborn. Forgetting the New Republic, why would the rest of the galaxy stand for it? No other planets decided that the New Republic was acting foolish and didn't take it upon themselves to arm their own planets to help fight back against a group that advocates for slavery and genocide?

 

The evidence is in the opening scroll, the First Order reigns supreme and in Rey's own words they will have succeeded in taking over many star systems in a matter of weeks. None of Leia's "allies" answered her call for help to face off against the First Order it seems like the galaxy has accepted them, maybe not fully, but at least through their inaction.

 

I found the League of Nations being bound by disarmament treaties while the non league Nazi Germany rearmed then took advantage of a naive appeasement policy totally implausible.

 

Again, they did not believe they had any enemies. They did not know enough about the FO. I don't know why this is so difficult to grasp. We all know, as the audience, that the FO are bad news, but what information do the NR people themselves have? You have to see it from their point of view, with the information that they have. It's not simply a case of 'they should have seen this coming' because that's not how stories work. Further, alongside this aspect of the NR being complacent is that they were perhaps being willfully blind to the danger and didn't want to get into another war. This isn't a logic gap, the NR are people with their own hopes and fears, not every society wants to punch their way out of trouble. They believed in diplomacy, they believed in peace. The tragedy in the story, which is usually far more interesting, is that the NR doomed itself. That's really the point.

This is all far more plausible than the nonsense of war spontaneously developing between separatists and loyalists.

Also, why is it hard to believe that people hidden away and with fanatical motivation to militarise and all the time in the world to do so would gather considerable strength? How else does any military force gain strength?

Finally, who says that the rest of the galaxy just accepts them? That's a big assumption at the edge of being disingenuous. While we don't see what's happening elsewhere during TLJ, I think it far more likely that there is actually resistance against the FO in many systems, as demonstrated by the fact that the legions have been deployed and it is said that their conquest will take weeks. That's not happening unless someone is resisting (it's just a losing battle). It would not take weeks if everyone had meekly accepted - even you have to see that. That the allies don't come can just as easily be understood to mean that they're too busy themselves.

 

But there were no enemies.

 

So you don’t really have any evidence? The opening scroll tells us the First Order is winning and Rey affirms this. Later, Leia’s allies don’t come because they believe the Resistance is a lost cause, not because they’ve surrendered. If I was a local commander and had any forces left, I’d keep them to defend myself, not rescue a tiny paramilitary trapped in a mine on the edge of the Galaxy.

 

BTW, I think wiping out an entire system (even if your weapon is destroyed), then mobilising your merciless legions across the galaxy is the reason there is no aid coming to the Resistance. It's blitzkrieg and Pearl Harbour all in one and an already too-timid and complacent galaxy is frozen in fear. For all we know, no one even knows the SKB has been destroyed, and we don't know that teh galaxy at large don't know the FO doesn't have more weapons of that magnitude. Precisely the same lack of a time jump makes the FO's lightning move more plausible. The Hosnian destruction was a blast seen around the galaxy. Maybe no one even knows SKB has been taken out yet. And the FO forces are then striking around the galaxy, not just the fleet that's after the Resistance ships.

 

So basically the whole reason boils down to the New Republic was naïve and complacent, the First Order managed to become incredibly powerful because no one except Leia's small paramilitary group thought it would be wise to try to stop them for being able to take over. Got it.

 

No the Republic and the Resistance were genuinely deceived by their capacity, the Republic moreso.