Games The First SWC Muggles Draft - The Draft Who Lived

arguments especially wanted on:

SORPIO vs Nom Anor
Jar Jar Binks vs Zeb + Chopper
Mezhan Kwaad (prep) vs Theron Shan (prep)
RC-1138 Boss vs RC-1207 Sev + RC-1262 Scorch

 

Scum and Villainy vs Mostly Mandalorian

6. Dengar vs Gallandro

Gallandro will get the draw and first fire, no doubt. Dengar, meh, never was all that impressed with him. Gallandro doesn't have to "force someone into a draw", that is a contest of egos, here Gallandro would just draw and fire....and he will absolutely be faster and more precise in that regard than Dengar.

Gallandro is every bit the bounty hunter that Dengar is, if not more so. Killed the entire Malorm family, a very deadly bunch. That act brought the anger of the Assassin's guild, and he held off assassination attempts form them for a decade before killing their elite circle of the most deadly assassins in the guild to end that conflict. Some of the earlier feats I posted on him show that he not only has an amazingly fast draw, but he also never misses, and he can hold his own in the midst of a combat situation that was giving Han and Chewie a hard time (vs the Xim war droids). His battlefield prowess earned him the distinction of hero among a dozen planets during the war against Goelitz. Perosnally took control of a pirate next on Geedon V without backup. He is agile, has a keen awareness of the battlefield, his reflexes are among the best noted in the SW galaxy.

For a guy who had the death-mark on his head in over a hundred systems, without a single person attempting to collect it based on Gallandro's ability, cub has kind of minimized the ability and threat that Gallandro presents to Dengar.

7. Doctor Aphra (prep) vs IG-88

I love me some Aphra, but prep on her seems less than ideal. Half the time her decisions and plans get her into more trouble than the good they do. She is good at droid repair, and we have seen her preform a few handy repairs on droids but never seen her put that skill to use in sabotage or to shut any droids down. Her specialty is in archaeology and focuses on ancient weaponry and tech, and she seems capable of coming up with a nifty weapon once and a while, but nothing overly sophisticated or deadly.

IG is resistant to blaster weapons, and is able to reflect them back to the origin. He is faster than she is. He has far more weapon options than she has ever been shown to have access to. His sensors will allow him to track her far easier than she can do, and in this location that is a fairly significant benefit.

Aphra is significantly outgunned, has a heavy deficit in the ability to withstand attacks, is slower, less practiced in the art of combat and killing. Not really sure how Aphra would win this, even with her prep, which to be honest isn't all that useful here.

10. Sugi + Deliah Blue vs Gar Saxon

Gar Saxon is better than each of them individually, no doubt, and probably by a comfortable margin. Neither of that trump are familiar with each other, so no reason to believe there will be any cohesion benefit. Might be a close fight though, fun one to ponder.

 

Fenn Vs Baze and Hera
Fenn is a seasoned warrior who has fought in both the the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War. He will go for Baze first and it’s important to take him out first. Once Baze is taken out I want to remind you that he is wearing Mandalorian Armor which a blaster shot will take a few hits to get through if that. Hera only seems to have a flight suet.

Bones vs Kallus
Bones has gotten himself out of plenty of tricky situations and even has some programming in him from General Grevious. He also moves surprisingly fast for a battledroid. He can easily use the nooks and what not to surprise Kallus in the Cloud City chamber

Alpha vs Finn
Alpha was one of the original 100 clone ARCS. Who were designed specifically to work on their own and take the target out and to do whatever is needed to win. He was first brought into the fight for Kamino because they were that close to losing. He was also good at making tactical decisions that needed to be made. He survived lightsaber wounds and torture from Ventress. He would not underestimate Finn and would use the room to his advantage. Was beaten by Phasma, but only killed her because she thought she won. Alpha would not make a similar mistake

 

Blah, those top 10 lists don’t do much for me. I saw one that listed the Jawa as one of the most dangerous Star Wars species, after that I don’t put much stock into them.

I’ll put up some proper arguments later, yay for the return of lively discussion in drafts!

 

I thought the last round was riveting.

 

Cavs didn't play tonight so yeeeeeah buddy!

Boss vs. Sev & Scorch

This isn't as simple as "2 clones vs. 1 clone"— it's way more akin to a Luke vs. early NJO Jacen/Anakin scenario. Boss is leader of Delta Squad not just b/c of leadership skills...the Kaminoans are way colder than that. It’s because he “repeatedly topped [his] squad in weapons and tactics testing"-- aka he’s measurably better than them at combat and planning (worth noting that neither of the trump were second-in-command either, that distinction going to RC-1140 “Fixer”).

And this shows in the Republic Commando campaign, where the subplot is basically "Boss Continually Saves Sev & Scorch's Asses"...

1. At Geonosis, on the Core Ship:

Boss saves Sev (07) by clearing out a pair of droidekas:



Look at the bones!

...then Scorch (62) immediately gets pinned down by more of them and needs help:



(The explosion there is a grenade Boss launched to begin rescuing him)

2. On the Prosecutor ghost ship:

Scorch gets attacked and kidnapped by a droid...but when one tries to do the same to Boss (38), he crushes it (you can see its grabby droid claws here):



Then Sev gets cranked in the noggin and captured by a Trandoshan slaver:



And then the entire next mission is called "Rescue the Squad" lol:



Boss has to fight through waves of baddies to save Sev from getting tortured and then find the detention center to revive Scorch.


3. On Kashyyyk:

Scorch gets taken out trying to take out a super battle droid dispenser as Boss and Fixer (40) fight through the occupied Citadel:



And finally, sadly, Sev gets pinned down again...but this time Boss gets ordered by none other than Master Yoda to abandon the rescue and rendezvous for the larger Kashyyyk invasion:



Sev remained MIA for the rest of Legends.

Boss meanwhile just whoops hiney— he is the player character after all, which also means side missions and a wide variety of skills. For example, Scorch is a demolitions guy?



...so is Boss.

(In fact he even makes Scorch jealous about grenades...)



Sev is a great sniper?



...so is Boss, with attendant high praise.

Which is why this is much more likely to play out as "master vs. a couple apprentices"— yes the intimate knowledge goes both ways, but it’s way more likely to be leveraged successfully by the superior combatant & tactician. The latter point is especially important b/c while Boss is actively scheming against them, they also don't have Boss to scheme for them as they normally would. It's a double whammy.

(The strategic disparity is also on display beyond the Xbox game-- during the hunt for Ko Sai in True Colors, for example, Boss picks apart a vehicle before Sev & Scorch just swoop in and kill the pilots...ruining any chance of getting intel from them, and luckily Fixer is able to slice the ship’s comp.)

So there's a chance Boss doesn't even have to use his payload-- given their history, it's possible Scorch & Sev get distracted by a pair of Ugnaughts, fall into one of the freezing chambers, and Boss just refuses to save them for the 1043049024th time. Clock it.

 

In totally unrelated news, I'm going to buy and play RepCom again

 

Well. Damn. That's an argument

 

As to the Kwaad/Shan match, Master Ken has already made the case as to how deadly Kwaad can be with prep time (see pages 20 and 21 of the thread for a refresher). I myself can't really speak to Theron Shan's feats one way or the other, other than what I've read in his Wook article, so instead I'll just focus on on these statements:

His technical abilities and cybernetics are likely to lead to him having an advantage in the chamber as well, as the tech would be totally foreign to Kwaad.

Hmmm... nah. Not really. While Kwaad's primary research focus was learning about the Jeedai and their abilities, she was also focused on generally advancing the Yuuzhan Vong biotechnology in order to combat the technology of their enemies. Blasters? Thermal detonators? What specific technology from some (roughly) 3.5 millennia BBY can Theron bring that Kwaad would be completely unfamiliar with?

On the flip side...

The Vong always present a challenge in their unorthodoxy, but Theron's range of experience running operations with different species should limit the initial shock.

Say wha? Nah. The Yuuzhan Vong and their biotech are completely and utterly unique in the SW canon. Not being terribly familiar with the different species than Theron has had contact with, I suppose I could be wrong in this statement, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that, no, he'll have little idea what he's in for. Even with 24 hours of prep time. It took the best minds of the New Republic years, years, to begin to puzzle out effective counters to the YV tech. Lest we forget, outside of isolated victories here and there (almost always involving the Jedi) the NR was getting their butts handed to them on a regular basis for pretty much the entire first half of the war.

Shan has just 24 hours to prepare for something absolutely alien to him, where the reverse is true for Kwaad (and again, please see Ken's previous arguments on Kwaad as a reminder of what she can do).

 

Thanks Wang as the Cavs do, in fact, play tonight

(if they decide to show up again )

 

Anor still knew how to use the amphistaff weapon that most warriors used, and was proficient enough in wielding it that he could take down warriors himself; the agent was also trained in the use of the tsaisi baton. In addition to being able to use an amphistaff, Anor was able to use many of the weapons used by the inhabitants of the galaxy his species was invading, including blasters and vibroweapons. He also was able to wear heavy armor, and was skilled enough in hand-to-hand combat that he could temporarily best Veila on Zonama Sekot.[

 

Round 2
Location: Cloud City Carbonite Freezing Chamber/Dance Club

The Unquestionably Questionable Quintet vs Boring Conversation Anyway
6. Gregor vs Nick Rostu + Commander Wolfe

I would argue this is another 2 on 1 situation. Gregor and Wolfe both know each other. Nick is the wild card and should make the difference here.

7. Commander Cody vs Wolfe + Rostu (FORFEIT)
10. Jar Jar Binks vs Zeb + Chopper

So, let's talk about how we end up with this:



First of all, Jar Jar is...clumsy. I would argue that Chopper in particular has shown great skill in taking advantage of opponents that can be thrown off balance. See the many times he's pushed opponents to their death (or near death in the case of one lucky droid).

So, my personal guess is Jar Jar sees Zeb charging at him and promptly does this:



Now, at first glance, you might think that Jar Jar's luck when it comes to clumsiness might work out and Zeb would somehow get tricked. But I want you to really look at Zeb's acrobatic abilities and particularly his maneuverability in tight spaces like the Carbon Freezing Chamber.




My point: Where Jar Jar is clumsy and trips over his own feet, Zeb has been shown to be incredibly athletic and able to swing around and recover from being knocked down. In terms of weapons, besides guns, he has his staff. And we know how Jar Jar reacts to electricity



So that numbed his tongue. I imagine Zeb numbs Jar Jar's body. And then Chopper bumps the carcass into the chamber:



Then he rolls over to the console and freezes Jar Jar.

 

Round 2
Location: Cloud City Carbonite Freezing Chamber/Dance Club

6, 7, 10

Smeltings Conference for Uptight Upright and Proper GMs


Forever Evil vs RX's Super Sweet Team That's Gonna PWN Some Fools
6. General Grievous vs Trioculus (prep)
GG nubs

7. Prince Xizor vs PROXY (prep)
Better combat experience and skillz

10. SORPIO vs Nom Anor
Same

Scum and Villainy vs Mostly Mandalorian
6. Dengar vs Gallandro
As fast as Gallandro is, Dengar is faster (he's dodged blaster shots so quickly, people thought they passed through Dengar) and tougher and just better (Imperial cybernetics are pretty good).

7. Doctor Aphra (prep) vs IG-88
Tales of the Bounty Hunters makes some people pretty dang good (Dengar, IG-88). Good as Aphra is, IG-88 is very very good and she isn't quite on that level even with the prep.

10. Sugi + Deliah Blue vs Gar Saxon
I like Gar better than either member of this trump, but not by a whole lot (Blue is very solid and Sugi is ok). This trump squeaks out the W

The Unquestionably Questionable Quintet vs Boring Conversation Anyway
6. Gregor vs Nick Rostu + Commander Wolfe
I'd probably vote just Wolfe over Gregor

7. Commander Cody vs Wolfe + Rostu (FORFEIT)

10. Jar Jar Binks vs Zeb + Chopper
Zeb is going to go crazy trying to deal with Jar Jar and Chopper

St Brutus's Secure Conference for Incurably Criminal GMs

Porg One: A Shaq Wars Story vs Seismic Charges
6. Fenn Shysa (prep) vs Zam Wesell

7. Mezhan Kwaad (prep) vs Theron Shan (prep)
So I think Theron is a much better fighter than Mezhan, but she has too many tricks for him to handle and still be able to take her down.

10. RC-1138 Boss vs RC-1207 Sev + RC-1262 Scorch
Having replayed a bit of RepCom and reread parts of Triple Zero, I'm going with the duo. Boss is better than either of them, but not by enough to take them both. A lot of your arg Ken, falls into "game mechanics" and when you look at more concrete canon Boss being way better than them doesn't quite hold up. Sev + Scorch can get the win.

This Team Makes Me Happy vs Team Hufflepuff
6. R2-D2 vs Jagged Fel (prep)
Prep makes this pretty clear to me.

7. Myn Donos vs Cassian Andor
Hmm, similar-ish type dudes here...Going Cassian because I think he has better "fight-smarts" if you will, where Myn is more of a pilot that can also occasionally snipe.

10. Hobbie Klivian + Wes Janson vs Judder Page
Very impressed by Page's experience during the YV War- more and better experience that what we've seen from Hobbie and Wes.

OG Team vs We're One with the Force. The Force is with Us
6. Fenn Rau vs Hera Syndulla + Baze Malbus
Tough fight, but I think the trump brings too much for Rau to handle

7. Mr. Bones vs Alexsandr Kallus
Weird fight, but Bones apparently has quite a bit of combat programming going for him and I could easily see Kallus underestimating him and losing.

10. ARC Trooper Alpha vs Finn
Poor Finn


@DarthIntegral @Darth_Furio

 

Nah nah, I went out of my way to include only examples that are from the plot. Those are not random quotes from when Sev/Scorch get low on health or knocked down from the player character's actions-- they are storyline-driven scenarios that happen regardless of how you play the game. The pin down on Geonosis, the rescue missions, Sev going MIA...they all happen no matter what.

Also worth noting that, book-wise, in Order 66 Scorch several times gets overcome by emotions (particularly the mess hall attack) and Boss has to be the steady one like "Bro I'ma let you do this but don't go TOO nuts." He'll be able to manipulate the two psychologically in a way they can't do back to him.

Also heels should be docked for only picking up Delta Squad in free agency after we took Boss late! You're a fraud heels! Minus 10 points from Griffindor heels!

 

I'm not disputing the story points, but more the "good shot sir" stuff that happens independent of whether it was actually a good shot.

 

Boss for me, but other wise agreed with @DarkEagle, so @Darth_Furio for one

 

Ah. To me those just serve as examples of his range of ability-- the dev team wouldn't have written those things to be said if they weren't true. So regardless of whether Scorch says the "Why can't I throw like that?" line (as conceivably you could, like, play the entire game without launching a single grenade lol), it's demonstrative of a reality wherein Boss can hang with their specific skill sets (explosives, sniping). That's important here b/c he can use those skills, but also is aware of the ins-and-outs of his opponents'.

 

Dengar is faster......ok.

 

... Yes?

 

No, uh-uh, nix, nope, nay, nah, no way, no way Jose, negative, veto, out of the question, no siree, not on your life, not in a million years, not for all the tea in China, under no circumstances, not likely, thumbs down, only when pigs fly out of my arse, not a chance in hell.

 

I think Boss takes it as well. For the record, I would have went with Theron Shan.