PT The first time we see lightsabers

I'm sure this has been brought up in the past. But I saw this picture from TPM and it got me thinking how wouldn't of it been better if this was the first time the lightsaber was shown?






If your watching the movies in order then this un exciting moment would be the first time.





I think it would of been pretty neat to just of had obi wan and qui got get up and hold their breathe like they do in the movie, but then your not sure what happens to them.

The way the movie plays out is they take out their sabers...they hold their breathe...then they must turn off their sabers and then when door opens re open sabers. So what was the point of turning them on the first time?

The way the scene builds up when the doors open would of been a small but I think better version of how this scene should of played out.

 

Cool idea, but I prefer the way the movie handles things.

The Jedi turn their sabers on for the first time in the conference room -- in my opinion -- because they've had the fear of the Force put up them. They're jumpy, overreactive, and immediately alarmed; panicked, even. It lends an ironic twist to Qui-Gon's smug aside to Obi-Wan about the negotiations being "short" because "these Federation types", in his view, are "cowards". Cowards? Or just pragmatic, perhaps?

There is also a sense that the Jedi are listening or quasi-meditating with their laser swords activated, symbolically bringing themselves to a higher attunement of danger. Their blades are are a little like divination rods or antennae. They they grip onto them and clasp them with both hands is also a measure of their staunch personal attachment to a martial philosophy (despite their overtures to peace and negotiation) which they have been matriculated into. In the following movie, Obi-Wan berates Anakin after catching up with him on foot, reminding him that his lightsaber is "[his] life" -- as if the Jedi have weaponized life itself.

So, it may just be that Lucas is making a prime point here, concerning these Jedi and their adherence and dependence upon antiquated, medievalist codes and precepts, including the idea that weapons can always be called upon to protect and save them.

 

I agree with you, JMaster Luke. That's actually something I believed would have been cooler from day one.

Cryogenic, I like your idea, but if the Jedi focused on their lightsabers while meditating, wouldn't Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan have left them when they were getting separated during their duel with Maul?

 

I think the idea was to start off by giving the audience a clear idea of how lightsabers work. So Lucas very clearly showed the Jedi taking them out and activating them.

Obviously, in reality, most everyone knows how a lightsaber works. But the conceit is that this is the first episode.

 

I like JMaster Luke's idea. I have to admit, this isn't something I've ever really thought about, but seeing the lightsabers for the first time as the OP suggested would have definitely been a more impactful way to introduce them.

The only very slight downside I could see about introducing them in this way would be that it might feel a bit like a claptrap moment. And I have to give the prequels credit for not overdoing it with the claptrap. Before TPM came out, I fully expected that the first appearance of each major character from the OT (Yoda, Obi-Wan, R2, C3PO, etc) would end up being a bit like, "HEY! Look! It's YODA!" (sound the trumpets! Unleash the balloons!) Instead, he's just kind of "there." Same with most of the other characters. R2 is the only one that had the rather silly scene with the "queen" congratulating him, and that was clearly a fan-service/claptrap moment.
So, my point is, the situation is the same with the lightsabers. The way they're first shown in TPM is very understated. If they had first appeared the smokey fog as the OP suggests, it could be seen as a bit more of a "Woo-hoo!! Look! LIGHTSABERS!" moment.

Still, in this case, I do like the OP's suggestion,and I'd probably have preferred that.

 

The Republic is in full swing. Taking out a lightsaber is nothing, but if you have a lightsaber during imperial times...well you're pretty much a target.

 

I agree with what your saying miasma. I wouldn't of liked it if all these OT characters were having their special introduction. But with this lightsaber scene the reason I feel that way is because they did give a great intro of showing the sabers, but its was the second time they were shown.

Maybe taking your idea of how characters were introduced. What if they had a scene of Yoda in the council 'just there' like the movie shows, but then next time they show Yoda before he enters a room someone says (Lets say Obi Wan to Anakin) "I'd like to introduce you to my old Master....Jedi Master Yoda" Yoda comes enters the room and its like "YEAH YODA!"....but if Yoda was already shown 'just sitting there' then the 2nd time you would see this great entrance the flame of excitement will have been taken out a bit (I say a bit because the first time I saw those sabers come out of the smoke when the door opens was still REAALLY sweet, but would of been even better if that was the first time they were shown in the movie).

 

I think the idea was to start off by giving the audience a clear idea of how lightsabers work. So Lucas very clearly showed the Jedi taking them out and activating them
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because the audience would be distracted until the next scene we see them activate one?

audience: confound it! I'm not going to like this movie until I'm shown how they turn those things on!!

 

I always interpreted it as two things:

#1- It showed that they were alert to more than their immediate surroundings. The minute they sense something going wrong, they get themselves ready for combat.

#2- It showed, like another poster said, that this was just standard Jedi practice. Once the lightsabers go out, stand aside like the droid (and the patrons in AOTC) did.

 

Actually, I must agree with this not from a real world perspective, but from an in-universe perspective, as George built the saga so that he believes I-VI (eventually I-IX) viewing is ideal, so this would be the first time you ever see lightsabers, not knowing what they are; it would have been a really flash way to introduce them, but the mundane nature with which they are introduced also has the same effect in the sense of adding immersion due to having seen it as a natural thing for the people of the GFFA rather than a huge ordeal.

On another note, that is one of the single longest non-run-on sentences I have ever written

 

I agree that it was a bit too cinematically "casual". He first time we see a lightsaber in the saga (and in 1999, the first time in 16 years) should be a big moment, or at least given the cinematic weight of a big moment.

Kind of a tangent, but one of the few concrete memories of seeing TPM for the first time (I was six) is being surprised at little time it took before the lightsaber action started. Being already very familiar with the OT, it felt kind of like eating desert before dinner.

 

Thats a really nice shot in that 2nd pic, is that from the blu ray? As for the topic, did the jedi power their sabers down and then back up again? We do see the sabers in the fog, but to me the best part of the early part of the movie is Palpatine the TF to kill the Jedi.

 

I meant that they kind of work as a meditation aid; or are some sort of symbolic gesture, on Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's part, in terms of readying themselves for action. Works in the opening -- IMO -- because they think they've come to negotiate and not to tear the place up. Their quick rising from their chairs (notably: the Jedi Masters are sat in chairs when Anakin comes to them) and activation of their weapons serves to re-focus their minds. The Jedi are in a state of heightened awareness ready for the next move. If it's a fight the TF wants, then a fight it shall receive. Subliminally, the TF's attack has roused a sleeping giant.

There is also the idea that the Jedi are "boxed in" by their surroundings, by their dogma, and kind of cut off from their own natures. Thus, with them hastening to action, with their sabers drawn, and noxious gas flooding the room, we're getting a portrait of Jedi insularity, Jedi poison. "Toxic dart." They are being choked by their own insularity and judgementalism. You'll notice that Qui-Gon twice condemns the TF here, calling them cowards and demeaning their grievances (the trade dispute) as trivial. Then the gas comes in. A tactical re-think is required for survival. The scene is an outline of their estrangement and a preview of their dramatic fall at the hands of their own (hidden) sithly nature.

 

I like both ideas, but I prefer the version that came out in the end. The shot is so clear AND unspeakably cool to see the two Jedi standing there at ready with their glowing blades.

My younger brother's first introduction to Star Wars was the opening of TPM that we saw on TV. We only got to see up to when Qui-Gon starts melting the door, but this opening got him hooked!

 

I have to disagree. If there is one thing that sequence showed us is that the Jedi are fearless, which is expected since they spent years training against it. But they are startled and surprised for the sudden attack, specially when Qui-Gon had just informed the audience that the Neimoidians had a coward nature.

To a point. I was in awe when Qui-Gon used his to melt the blast door.

 

I like the movie version and I would have liked your suggestion, JMaster Luke , also.

If someone has really never seen a lightsaber before, I think the movie's introduction works quite well - especially in the context of the following saber action. There is the first shot of the lightsaber, very unspectacular, functioning as a little teaser, and a newcomer would probably think What's this?! Looks cool!, only to have them deactivated a second later. Don't turn them off! Bring the cool sabers back! Then there is the smoke, lightsabers get activated again Yay! They are back!, droids all start getting nervous, babbling Oh no, no, Roger ! and all hell breaks loose with this very athletic saber action scene.

Works. The first shot of them among the smoke would have worked as well, although differently.

 

Good note on the sequence as a whole.

The smoke, I think, readjusts our perception of the Jedi. When our view of them as calm, even bored, negotiators disappears, we're ready for some tough-as-nails Jedi action.

And it is key that the Jedi do disappear into that thick soup. It sorta symbolizes a mystery aspect to their ways. It's a ritual unfolding. Yes, they come to us initially in hoods and subsequently remove them, and the smoke is then another form of enshrouding.

They're not entirely who we think they might be. They're always -- in essence -- opaque ... even when they burst through.

Sort of "expect the unexpected".

I really like that synopsis, Samnz! Terrific!!

 

Cos Phantom Menace replaced the sense of wonder, originality and relatability with the dumb,loud action parts, fan service and the knowledge that everyone atching is already overly familiar with all things star wars such as lightsabers.
Because no longer had the filmmaking vision or focus to give the lightsabers the respect they deserved in the story and went "BIGGR! LOUDDER! MORE JEDILIGHTSABERS!!"
Well pointed out and not a bad suggestion

 

There's no way to completely disprove what you say, but I can still roundly disagree.

The opening sequence, for example, is very effective -- in my opinion -- at establishing the dual, exotic nature of the Jedi, and at setting up the entire series' approach to heroism and villainy in general.

That and a viewer is also being schooled in the "Jedi Arts" (as Qui-Gon later refers to them): at precisely what can be accomplished, viscerally and metaphorically, with a lightsaber, some Force power, and fierce dedication.

We're getting some archetypal visual themes, too, like the organic versus the mechanic, attack vs. defence, and the intertwining of politics, commerce, mysticism, and violence.

A great abstract sensibility is also evident: samurai-like negotiators armed with glowing weapons and telekinetic powers fighting stick-like robots and robots that roll along the ground, encased in protective energy bubbles, battling each other in a maze-like environment (hallway fights pop back up in the film's ambitious action climax). Are these characters actually fighting themselves?

You make a sweeping attack on the entire film, which is beyond the scope of this thread. But I will add that everything in TPM is meant to feel, in some sense, like it is being revealed to the viewer for the first time, with all the protagonists similarly awed, baffled, or overwhelmed at different points based on a world, creature, or object that they encounter.

The film even has characters -- "good" and "bad" -- telling each other to "be mindful" at discrete points. Drink! Drink it up! But drink with care. The interplay of the mundane and the spectacular gives the film a unique tone, and is one from which prodigious meaning emerges.

All JMO.

 

They're movies about the fall of the Old Republic, when the Jedi are numerous and conflict is everywhere. Of course you're going to see a lot of lightsabers. There's no avoiding it. It's baked into the concept.

That being said, I don't see how the lightsabers aren't given "the respect they deserved." What does it mean to give respect to a weapon? You're not supposed to respect the weapon. Weapons aren't deserving of respect. Lightsabers are a brilliant sci-fi invention, and it's fun to see them go VOOM-VOOM, but that's it. The prequels do a good job of showing that the lightsabers are impressive weapons, and that Jedi teachings give them a bizarrely reverential air. But we, the audience, aren't necessarily supposed to feel the same way as the Jedi about them. At least, not until the OT, when lightsabers do indeed become rare symbols of a bygone, "civilized" era. We buy into the myth for the duration of the OT, still, even after all we've seen in the prequels, because of the way those movies present them as legendary relics with the ancient nobility of an Excalibur or a Narsil. But it's a harmful illusion, one that is finally shattered at the end of Episode VI when Luke tosses his lightsaber away like a venomous snake and faces the Emperor as a true Jedi. He brings our conceptions back in line with what they were during the prequels, before the romantic haze of the OT so clouded our vision.

You're getting mad because, once again, the prequels didn't buy into all your preconceptions based on the OT. In the prequels, lightsabers are fantastical, but at the same time mundane. It's the way it had to be for the story to be told. It's a feature, not a bug. RLM and the like may disagree, but theirs is not the last word on moviemaking.

edit:

Very good post. To reference Middle-earth once again, I feel that if the OT is The Lord of the Rings, then the prequel trilogy is The Silmarillion. Both are great works of fiction, but they are also quite different in their scope and tone. The Middle-earth of The Lord of the Rings is a lot like our world during a previous era of history. But there are scattered references to ancient conflicts on an unimaginably epic scale, and there are remnants of magic in the world left over from a time when literal gods and angels walked the Earth side-by-side with mortals. But the Middle-earth of LotR's narrative has become run-down and diminished since that time. A few angels remain in the world posing as wizards with the bodies of mortal men, but overt displays of magic are only deployed on rare occasions, making them all the more amazing when they do happen. We don't get to see any of the ancient conflicts involving these divine beings; we only hear about them. It allows us to fill the gaps in our knowledge with our imaginations.

The Silmarillion, on the other hand, shows us everything. Chapter after chapter, we are given detailed descriptions of ancient clashes between gods, men, and various other fantastical races, conflicts involving massive feats of magic that level mountains, flood the Earth, and alter the very geography of the land itself on a global scale. There is very little mystery anymore. After a while, as epic and as well-written and as Biblical as the prose is, even these amazing events and characters start to become an accepted feature of the narrative milieu. They are no longer the province of veiled references and half-glimpsed sorcery; these things are right before our eyes, for extended periods. Far from being incomprehensible avatars of demonic evil, Balrogs are simply the heavy bruisers of Morgoth's army. High Elves squabble and quarrel and stab each other in the back like men, a far cry from their later status as almost unimpeachable symbols of grace and virtue. The figure who is to become the ultimate villain of Middle-earth is a mere army lieutenant subservient to an even greater evil. It's a different vibe than LotR, but it's not a worse one. The Silmarillion is simply telling a different kind of story, a story about a world where legends are not yet legendary, and Heaven can be accessed by boat.

It's the same with the first two Star Wars trilogies. The prequels are the story of a time when the Jedi are a thousands-strong galactic peacekeeping force at the height of their power, as opposed to a rump Order of two mysterious monks who live at the corners of the universe and whose survival depends on them keeping their abilities--and their trademark weapons--safely hidden away.

 

The_Phantom_Calamari perspicacious insights well put, as usual! I never quite thought of the Tolkien/SW connection that way before.