PT The First Tyranus-Anakin Duel

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Beezer, Jul 8, 2013.

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  1. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    OK I need to vent, but this duel has always irritated the heck out of me, specifically the part where an injured Obi-Wan throws his lightsaber to Anakin and Anakin starts the fight with 2 sabers (and no I am not talking about the fact that his sabers switch hands from one moment to the next).

    Everything we've seen with Anakin up to this point has him using 1 single saber. The scenes on Coruscant chasing Zam, the slaughter of the Sand People, the droid factory. Presumably he trains using one saber.

    So then now that he is in his first big duel with a Sith Lord, what happens? He takes a second saber. This would be a radically different fighting style than anything he has done or trained with before. It is nothing short of a recipe for disaster.

    I know they wanted to make the duel look nice and pretty, but I just wish a little more thought went into this.

    </vent>
  2. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    I feel your pain. It never made sense to me why a master would encourage his apprentice to take on a Sith Lord blind by using a second lightsaber. At least the 10-year-olds in the theater loved it.
  3. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    He is Anakin Skywalker, he can do anything he wants without training and be perfect at it ;)
  4. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    Just because we are never shown Anakin training with two blades doesn't mean he never has trained with two blades. Call this a retcon if you will, but I assume that most Jedi normally carry one sabre, as a policeman carries one pistol, and only on very very rare occasions is there any need for a Jedi to use two blades, as rare as calling out a SWAT team with shotguns and sniper rifles. If I were a Jedi, I'd want to be trained in fighting against an opponent using two blades, and learning to fight that way myself would be an effective learning technique.

    Besides, fighting with two swords is just crazy fun. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...=a.26237669348.32096.658524348&type=3&theater
    That's me in the middle.
    Dra---, Jedi Merkurian, Zer0 and 2 others like this.
  5. ILNP Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2011
    star 1
    Being such a radically different fighting style, one would assume that it would take Dooku by surprise too. I had more of an issue with the duel consisting of close-ups of Dooku and Anakin than with Anakin using 2 lightsabers.
  6. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
  7. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I thought so as well for many years, but it turns out to be false.

    We don't know everything he has done or trained with before. I assume it's part of their training to be able to use two sabers if required. Still, that scene "proves" your point and Anakin isn't able to hold up long enough with both sabers, so what's the problem?
  8. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    My thoughts:

    Obi-Wan fears that there's no chance Anakin could beat Dooku in a 1 vs. 1 single lightsaber duel since that is what Dooku seems to specialize in. So perhaps he threw the second lightsaber to Anakin in the hopes that this new style would be enough to unbalance Dooku so Anakin could get in a lucky hit before his more limited experience with dual sabers makes itself known. That'd be my guess.
  9. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    We see background Jedi during the arena battle wielding two laser swords, so obviously the saber techniques alluded to earlier in the film aren't limited to the use of a single blade. And even though we have on screen evidence that duel-wielding is the less popular choice, it's easy to surmise from Anakin's "bad boy" status that at one time or another he at the least experimented with two blades. And I concur with PiettsHat in that Dooku's more gentlemanly dueling style was putting to shame both Anakin and Obi-Wan's ablities, so a last ditch effort to alter the "rules" of the engagement is certainly understandable.

    And beyond all that, all good pulp heroes find a way to freestyle every now and then.
    minnishe and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    That never bothered me. I just assumed that Obi-Wan, who couldn't get up, was trying to think quickly of ways to increase Anakin's odds.
  11. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    lets keep the snide remarks about other posters off the discourse -mod edit of course, it completely ignores the fact that if 2 blades is better than 1, then why didn't he bring 2 blades to his next duel with Tyranus, or the duel with Obi-Wan?

    I don't mind doing something for the sake of eye candy. For example, giving Grievous 4 blades was eye candy, but at least that made logical sense.
    But if carryign 2 blades increases a duelist's odds, then why not carry 2 blades all the time? There's certainly no shortage of lightsabers around.
    Experimented with 2 blades? Sure, ok, I'll give you that. But when it comes times to fight for your very life, you go with what you know, you don't go with what you've "experimented" with.
    This is weak. If technique A works best against style B, but you don't know technique A, then you aren't going to try to apply it.

    Giving Anakin a 2nd blade for his first major duel was simply silly. It could have been much more well done.

    Oh, and yes I know they filmed scenes where Tyranus took 2 blades, I have the old WOTC trading cards to prove it, but those got cut from the film so AFAIC it never happened.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Jul 8, 2013
  12. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6

    Dooku is foreshadowing his own fate :p
  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    For there to be apologists, there needs to be something to apologize for. I don't see any.

    Nobody said two blades was necessarily better than one. It merely was something that didn't hurt to try and could catch Dooku off guard.

    It can increase, it doesn't necessarily increase.

    And how do you know which technique works best against another? And who said he doesn't know it?

    He had it for 5 seconds, and it proved to be inefficient against Dooku. Again, where is the problem?
  14. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    That's how it played out to me onscreen: poo to the wall and see if it sticks.

    It didn't.:p
  15. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, they seemed hopelessly outclassed by The Count on that occasion. Reckon the two sabres was a bit of a last ditch, desperate measure. Bit like sending your goalkeeper up into the forwards in the last minute when you're losing one nil.
  16. SlashMan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    I've had nitpicks about this duel, but never had an issue with the dual wielding. It was Obi-Wan's way of giving a slight lead to Anakin, despite being injured. We can see by the way that Anakin handles two blades that he has experience on the subject (otherwise, why would Obi-Wan even throw the saber).

    Most importantly, we see that this does give Anakin an advantage over Dooku; the Count immediately aims for one of the sabers to even the odds and fight on his own terms.
  17. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Exactly.

    And if we change pitches: that's like going for it on fourth down & goal from your own twenty yard line.
    Show Spoiler
    UR.Not.Going.To.Score.
    DarthDuckie likes this.
  18. MOC Yak Face Old Films' Curator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    Now the simile is trans-Atlantic. :)
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  19. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Again, the problem is that Anakin adopted a whole brand new fighting style just at the spur of the moment when entering what is essentially his first duel where his very life is at stake. It makes no sense. It was just some poorly thought out and poorly designed eye candy which hurts what-is-otherwise a good scene.

    It would be like Mariano Rivera entering the 9th inning in the World Series and saying "you know what? I'm going to throw some knuckleballs!" Sure, that would fool the batter.... and then it would be an absolute disaster for Rivera who has no experience throwing knuckleballs whatsoever.
  20. Beezer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 5, 2013
    star 4
    Sure seems like it to me that they made an error there. I don't see what you're seeing that you think it was ok.
  21. Jedi General Gelderd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2004
    star 5
    For a move that lasted 3 seconds on film, it was built up to be nothing pretty much. I remember the trailer showing the sequence, pretty much the WHOLE 2-saber sequence teasing us there would be more....but no.

    Just a showy display of fancy footwork and saber technique.
  22. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I think that the point of it was to show that Obi-Wan knows that Anakin is outclassed. That, one on one, he might be able to hold off Dooku for a while, but he'll never be able to win. Giving Anakin another lightsaber was an attempt to alter the parameters of the duel -- perhaps in Anakin's favor

    Let me put it this way. One on one, let's say Dooku's a level 8. Obi-Wan is a level 7 and Obi-Wan knows that Anakin is a level 7.1 (I'm giving Anakin a slightly higher level here to indicate that he generally has less trouble with Dooku -- not as an overall score compared to Obi-Wan). Now, Anakin's plenty good with a lighsaber, but Obi-Wan's just fought and lost to Dooku and he's also trained Anakin, so he knows his padawn's limitations. Now, Anakin might not be as good with two lightsabers -- maybe a 6.7 -- but Dooku's ability to combat two lightsabers rather than one might be only 6.5. This would give Anakin the advantage. It's worth a shot at least. Also, it's worth noting that if Anakin finds himself completely unable to use the two lightsabers effectively, he can just let go of one.

    Or he may have been hoping to catch Dooku off guard so Anakin could get in a lucky hit.
    ILNP, DarthBoba and Alexrd like this.
  23. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    All of the Dooku duels in AOTC were all way too short. Won't get into the Yoda one here which was problematic to me.
    The first two duels didn't even last a minute each. That is bad imo. Sure they might have been tired but please make them a bit longer.
  24. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    I actually found the ending of AOTC really action heavy as is. I've always felt it would have benefited from cutting the droid factory sequence and then inserting the deleted scenes of Padmé visiting her family. Maybe the duels could be extended in place of adding the family scenes, though. I'd prefer the former, personally -- I love those deleted scenes.
    Last edited by PiettsHat, Jul 9, 2013
  25. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The Droid factory scenes were a bit over the top imo. Shorten that, add Padme's family, lengthen each duel by a bit and viola. The first two duels are way too short as is. Ruins the momentum for me.
    mes520 likes this.
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