ST The Fisher King, Excalibur, Avalon - Arthurian and other myths in TFA and the ST

Mungo Baobab

That is, indeed, a blast from the past.

I came into possession of a copy of that book, and Out of the Silent Planet, when I was a kid. I can remember reading the first book (though I the story evades my memory), but I didn't have the second and so never finished the series.

It was long before the internet, kids, and we used actual bookshops - never found a copy and remember trying markets and second hand bookshops even when on holidays.

I must see if I still have still have them somewhere - I surely do They were old though - an early printing I say.

 

Hoggsquattle Yeah, I've been mulling over Arthurian linked stuff for the past few weeks, and that book came to mind. It's a long time since I read it, but it did seem to have a few elements in common with TFA. Not sure if it might have had any influence on it, but it's been a slow week so I thought I might as well post it!

 

Mungo Baobab


Never mind the influences on Star Wars - it is a trip down memory lane for me.

 

Wow! This is an incredible thread. Outstanding work from everyone!

 

Man, I know I read the entire trilogy, but I don't really remember any of this, lol. I feel like I remember the first two books in the series pretty well, but apparently this one fell out of the back of my head

 

Wow, this thread makes me feel like I'm back in college! Love me some in-depth myth analysis! However, all this talk about Luke seeking wisdom yet being in exile confuses me: Wouldn't the Jedi Temple be the place to go for that kind of thing? And there are still plenty of people who would know about it's existence, so Luke wouldn't need any sort of far off place to get the knowledge and wisdom he seeks. Even if he didn't follow any of their teachings, the first thing you do to learn is find out what others have done before you. So what's with the walkabout?

I love the First Order/Thule concept. It's very Raiders of the Lost Ark/MCU Hydra. Maybe they believe Vader was the true Chosen One who brought balance by killing the Jedi and see Luke as an abomination/heretic that must be destroyed? Maybe instead of a grail-like object it's simply immortality they seek? I'd love to see some kind of callback to the whole "Darth Plagueis the Wise" story. Kylo tracking clues to Plagueis' teachings to find immortality for the Sith would be a great angle to explore.

 

Jedi with a TARDIS

For me, the idea of Luke going on a journey of discovery, knowledge, etc. stemmed from the idea that he couldn't go back to the 'old ways'. Even Yoda, and Obi-Wan came to accept that the Jedi Order that we see in the PT was ensnared in dogma, a bureaucratic institution. So we'd speculated that he might wish to trace the roots of the Jedi, back to a time before they became bureaucrats: a simpler and more streamlined Order. In this sense, the Jedi Temple would probably be the last place he'd go to find his way to a 'new Jedi Order'.Although, I guess he may wish to use the archives in order to find the right place to look for such knowledge.

 

How about...going to a library in big city doesn't make for a very compelling story.

 

The thing is though, Luke doesn't know any of this backstory, so would exploring the Jedi Temple be the first logical step? Maybe he did in the last thirty years and now is striking out on his own, I guess?

 

This is something that I was going to post in the Snoke thread, but it probably best fits here. Whilst I think that this is unlikely to be the inspiration for Snoke, it is an example of the link between the snake god / demon myth, and vampirism. This can also be found in the Lamia, the Brazillian Jararaca, and the Chilean Piuchen.


The Thlen ( also known as U-Thlen, or Chlen ) is a Khasi demon. A snake vampire, that demands human sacrifice, and which has inspired a cult amongst people of that region which still persists today.

http://www.urbanmyths.ca/Myths/U-Thlen-The-Snake-vampire.html


U Thlen is one of the legendary Khasi gods, whose worship is limited to
a few clans and families. From participation in it all right-thinking
Khasis recoil with loathing and horror, inasmuch as it involves
the perpetration of crimes, for this god can only be propitiated by
offerings of human sacrifices, with many revolting and barbaric rites.

The clans who are reputed to be the devotees and worshippers of the
Thlen are regarded with aversion and fear throughout the country, and
to them are attributed many kinds of atrocities, such as the kidnapping


of children, murders and attempted murders, and many are the tales of
hair-breadth escapes from the clutches of these miscreants, who are
known as Nongshohnohs. Within quite recent times murders have been
committed which are still shrouded in mystery, but which are said
to have indications that the victims were killed for the purpose of
Thlen sacrifice.

In common with mankind, U Mawlong Siem is described as having a
family, who, also in common with mankind, took pleasure in dancing
and festivity. It is said that people sometimes hear the sound of
revelry and the beating of drums within the mountain, supposed to
be the drums of U Mawlong Siem beaten to the accompaniment of the
dancing of his children, the sound of which invariably portends the
death of a Siem or some great personage.

The only one of his family whose name and history have been
transmitted was a daughter called Ka Kma Kharai, which signifies one
that roams about in trenches or hidden nooks. She was well known in
the Blei-world, and she possessed the power of assuming whatever form
she pleased. She often assumed the form of a woman and mingled with
mankind without anybody suspecting her identity. Many of the Bleis
sought her in marriage, but U Mawlong Siem, her father, would never
give his consent, lest his prestige be lowered among the Bleis.

There was one suitor whom Ka Kma Kharai specially favoured. He was
the god of Umwai, but her father forbade the union so sternly as
to dispel all the hopes of the lovers. This so angered the young
goddess that henceforth she rebelled openly against her father, and
by way of retaliation she encouraged the attentions of strange and
undesirable lovers.

When it was discovered that she was with child, she fled from her home,
fearing the wrath of her father, and put herself under the protection
of her maternal uncle, who lived in the Pomdoloi cave, and was one
of the famous dragons, or Yak Jakors of the country. In this cave a
son was born to her, who proved to be a monster of hideous aspect,
having the form of a snake and the characteristics of a vampire,
who could be appeased only when fed with human blood. This monster
they called U Thlen.


The Thlen is the centre of a ritual sacrifice cult which still continues today:

Newspaper reports had flashed the killing of youth and also others who had strayed at Maraikaphon which lies just a few kilometres from Sohra (Cherrapunjee) in Meghalaya, arguably the region which receives the most rainfall in the world. These killed were questioned about their antecedents and were accused of being blood hunters (Nongshohnoh) especially since an airlines pilot had just disappeared in the Sohra region and was later found dead, lying at the bottom of a gorge.
The agitated locals of Maraikaphon and Mawkisyiem were in no mood to respond or listen to the explanations of the victims who had strayed into the localities and they had become suspects of being the cause of the mysterious disappearance of the pilot, believed to have been killed by the dreaded blood hunters also known as ‘Nongshohnoh’, in order to appease the snake like monster known as the ‘Thlen’ which thrives on human blood and which, when satisfied, brings about material wealth to the family that keeps or rears it in their homes.

The ‘Thlen’ cult is synonymous to the present day situation of the greed for easy and ill – gotten wealth even when a person has to soil one’s hands with blood and commit heinous acts such as cold blooded murder. Behind the ‘Thlen’ cult is a fable which speaks of stark realities of a continuous struggle going on within a person’s conscience and the society and humankind at large.
The ‘Thlen’ in the Khasi context, is a snake – like demon which had sworn that it would earn wealth and riches by devouring the essence of humankind. Along these lines of haughty pronouncement, a story is woven around this philosophy of the evil of greed, the lust for easy and ill – gotten wealth represented by this obnoxious creature called the ‘Thlen’.
http://www.easternpanorama.in/index...-the-chlen-still-stalks-in-murders-mysterious

 

Good find. Even if none of this stuff is even close to what we get, it's always an interesting read!

 

Right - resurrecting this old beast to touch on the Force Trees from Shattered Empire.

Spoiler

Will add to this post as I find links, but the first tree myth that springs to mind (by which I mean Mungo Baobab posted it first ) is :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil



It's interesting that in SE we have two trees - do these symbolise the twins? Or new siblings? Or light and dark? Interesting also that Luke seems to take one (I'm going to assume this is to be planted and give strength to the new temple at Devaron where Luke will attempt to restart his order) and the Damerons take the other.

 

you know this reminds me of TCW episode where Yoda sees false visions of everyone together and they were centered around a tree. So maybe it was the Tree of Life.


also as I had posted in the Rey thread what if The Knights of Ren are after the trees which is why they Attack. Either Maz takes it-the object or maybe Luke himself took it either before or after the massacre. Could it be a vision made him take the tree to safety which is why he's not there when the Knights Attack.

maybe the trees being separated also represents Luke separating from Rey, or her and Kylo separating.
If they represent Light and darkness could be interesting if the happy Damerons get the light and Luke takes the darkside tree. Could it be the darkside tree could have clouded Luke's connection to the force like the Sith Temple did with the Old Jedi.

 

Good catch about TCW tree. Is that the one?

Lol, we may never even see these trees in TFA - but it definitely seems to be something they are setting up.

If the trees are strong with the force and things like Vader's mask and saber are strong in the dark side, with maybe the Bespin saber strong in both perhaps they would be something the Knights of Ren may wish to seek out (after all, why was Palpatine guarding these roots) -either to destroy, or to use. And equally, Luke and Rey may need to protect or get to these things first.

 

@Satipo
looking it up
in the comic Luke says :"the tree that grew at the heart of the Jedi Temple."

according to wookiepedia

so it seems to be this ancient tree, does ancient also=force based given where it is I would think it is.
I'm starting to doubt it's dark and light, the trees in the comic and the significance make me think they are pure living force not corrupted. So the Knights might want to destroy them, as for Palps he liked to collect artifacts to his collection. Maybe you are right and the saber is something in the middle between the 2 a mix of both light and dark.

 

Meh. Rey is born from the tree.

 

ever since I saw that 'cross' lighsabre I've been thinking of the Christian/Arthurian myths . I tend to think that we're heading into Mordred territory .

but who knows , they could just be mixing and matching from myths to just get certain feelings across .

 

This is the info from the tree I bought. Maybe they took the idea from the Celts as well.

 

We do seem to be heading into an era of Force relics, and items of power. I'd agree that trees seem to be more likely to be associated with the Light side, or at least the Living Force, and so are probably unlikely to be linked to the Dark Side. There's an outside chance that it could be a tree burning in the Luke's hand / R2 shot from the 2nd teaser, though I tend to think it's probably a funeral pyre.

 

interesting it mentions Otherworld just like the Force Netherworld, so the tree could be connected to the Netherworld.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Otherworld
vs
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Netherworld_of_the_Force/Canon

 

Skellig?

 

see now we're getting somewhere.
I recall me and you and others made plenty of speculation about Luke connecting to the Netherworld on Skellig.

 

Force trees with crystal root systems? Glowing.

Would be similar to the Arkenstone being the heart of the mountain in The Hobbit.

 

Guys, whilst posting something about awakening in another thread, I was reminded of something that connects to the Bodhi trees, the Buddhist trees that are planted at Buddhist temples. Bodhi means 'awakening'. Specifically a spiritual awakening.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_in_Buddhism
The English term enlightenment is the western translation of the term bodhi, "awakening", which has entered the Western world via the 19th century translations of Max Müller. It has the western connotation of a sudden insight into a transcendental truth.
The term is also being used to translate several other Buddhist terms and concepts used to denote insight (prajna, kensho and satori);[1][dead link] knowledge (vidhya); the "blowing out" (Nirvana) of disturbing emotions and desires and the subsequent freedom or release (vimutti); and the attainment of Buddhahood, as exemplified by Gautama Buddha.
What exactly constituted the Buddha's awakening is unknown. It may probably have involved the knowledge that liberation was attained by the combination of mindfulness anddhyāna, applied to the understanding of the arising and ceasing of craving. The relation between dhyana and insight is a core problem in the study of Buddhism, and is one of the fundamentals of Buddhist practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_Tree
The Bodhi Tree, also known as Bo (from Sinhalese: Bo) and "peepal tree" in Nepal and Bhutan, was a large and very old sacred fig tree (Ficus religiosa[1])[2] located in Bodh Gaya, India, under which Siddhartha Gautama, the spiritual teacher later known as Gautama Buddha, is said to have attained enlightenment, or Bodhi. In religious iconography, the Bodhi tree is recognizable by its heart-shaped leaves, which are usually prominently displayed. Bodhi trees are planted in close proximity to every Buddhist monastery.

 

I don't know much about mythology, but a tree reminds me of the fate the Jedi Order might have in this trilogy. If you go up a tree, it starts with the stem and from this stem grow many branches. The stem would be Luke Skywalker and the branches would be all the new Jedi. First you might have two big branches, Finn and Rey, and they in turn will train other Jedi in the future, who stand for all the little branches. The tree grows bigger and stronger with each new cycle, each new generation.