ST The flaws and negative sides of TFA

Hello everyone,

Long-time TheForce.net visitor here, but I just joined the forums. Glad to be part of the community!
As many threads here already discussed spoiler-filled topics, I suppose it is okay to write freely about the movie’s content in this subforum. But just in case: SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!

Plus, it’s a very long wall-of-text. So if you’re allergic to long posts, ignore this one


0.) Introduction

Like many - if not all - of you, I eagerly waited for Star Wars TFA and went in yesterday with very high expectations (I know, bad idea). And then went out pretty disappointed. Don’t get me wrong, it was entertaining, it was fun, it was great to see the Star Wars universe on the big screen again. But still… I didn’t went out with a “WOW!”, but rather with an “It was OK…”.

There are tons of positive reviews and comments about the film, saying it’s the best Star Wars ever made. And it’s totally understandable. We just watched a new episode after 10 years (or 30+ years if you are the kind, who ignores the PT ). We’re all glad, that we get another episode at all and that the original cast is involved again.

But with this thread I want to do the exact opposite. All the positive aspects were already discussed on the whole Internet. Now I want to point out and analyze the flaws and lacks the movie had (at least in my opinion) and talk about them. And I hope that people are ready yet to look at these flaws and discuss them, rather than answering with a mindless “This movie was perfect!!! There are no flaws!!!” while crushing the prequel trilogy (or perhaps me? ) with all their hatred. Of course it will be unavoidable to make comparisons to the older movies, but don’t misunderstand this as a VS. thread (which is forbidden anyway).

And that’s one thing I admire about this forum: It treats PT and OT equally and you shouldn’t start a PT vs. OT thing. I’m really tired of people bashing the PT and GL “just because”. Yes, we can all agree they had cringe worthy dialogues and unnecessary cheesy scenes, but all in all I like the prequels (well, let’s say Episode 2 and 3) as much as I like the OT for different other reasons. As we all learned from Obi-Wan: “Only a Sith deals in absolutes”.

…What? You’re still here after reading the last passage? Well, thanks for your understanding I guess. But enough of me, let’s start! I’d be glad if you join and add some points here and there!

P.S.: I will also add links to other interesting topics I found/read from time to time, which also deals with some of the aspects I’m going to talk about.


!!! SPOILERS FROM NOW ON !!!
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Content:
1.) Episode 7 = Episode 4 (with a bit of 5 and 6)
2.) Lack of creativity
3.) J.J. Abrams’ hectic style / predictable style
4.) Force Ex Machina
5.) Overhyped characters, who are extremely underused or underwhelming
6.) John Williams? Where are you?


1.) Episode 7 = Episode 4 (with a bit of 5 and 6)

Ok first of all the most obvious criticism, which I suppose was already discussed and mentioned in dozens of other forums, threads and comments: Episode 7 is kind of a rehash of Episode 4, with minor changes here and there. This was maybe the biggest letdown for me personally.

An unexpected hero(ine) on a desert planet finds a droid with secret plans, which leads him/her to the rebellion/resistance. There’s a cantina scene. Roughly the same planets, we’ve already seen in the OT before. The bad guys build a superweapon, capable of destroying planets (seriously, again?). A few fighter squadrons attacking this superweapon, by flying through a trench. Han Solo disabling the shield generator, located on the planet (which interestingly in this case is the weapon itself). And so on.

Of course it’s ok to borrow old elements, but unfortunately the whole structure is too similar. For me it felt like one of those remake/reboot movies, where they throw in cameos of actors from the original movies, rather than a true new sequel. So it really surprises me that many people are very protective of it - Because if someone had pitched the idea of rebooting the OT, I imagine there would’ve been a large outcry and protest against it. But basically this is what Abrams did with Episode 7, “disguising” it as a sequel He took the gist of Episode 4, threw in some elements of Episode 5 and 6 and some little ideas from the EU and presented it in a modern style.

Further reading:
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...ddressing-the-criticisms-one-by-one.50035660/


2.) Lack of creativity

As I already mentioned in my introduction, I’m probably one of the few people who doesn’t hate and loathe the PT to the point, where they are called “abominations“ or where everything is George Lucas’ fault. Yes, they are anything but perfect, but take away the bad dialogue and cheesy scenes and we get a wonderful universe, exploring the backstory and the past of our beloved OT. The bizarre but beautiful planets, the philosophy of the Jedi, the weird technology and the diverse species. Heck, you won’t take me seriously anymore or will even hate me for this, but in my eyes even the politics were interesting. I always loved it, when even the tiniest details are filling out “holes” in the Star Wars universe and large new details are expanding it. Be it (pseudo-)scientifically, politically, character wise or whatever. George may not be good in writing scripts or directing characters, but say what you will, he is a mastermind in creating and crafting worlds beyond our imagination.

This is what J.J. Abrams definitely lacks. Vision. Creativity.

Tatooine, Yavin IV, Hoth, Death Star. These are the sceneries we get in Episode 7, just with new names (with the latter two combined though). X-Wings and TIE-Fighters again. I love X-Wings since I was a child, they were awesome then and they still are. But the TIEs… well the TIEs have shields now (well according to the cross-section book) and a gunner position. But 30 years later and they still use the old TIE/Ln design with the hexagon panels? Come on, they had TIE Interceptors in Ep 6 which were way more efficient and sleek. At least show us the shield capabilities, but not even that was displayed. It was just like the old TIE/Ln. A new superweapon in the shape of a moon/planet – Well this time it IS (was?) a planet. But still… again?

I understand, this is the first of a new trilogy, so hopefully, we’ll see new weird worlds, ships and fresh ideas in Ep 8 and 9. But unfortunately in Ep 7 there was nothing remarkably new, it was just the old stuff rehashed for nostalgia’s sake.
It was nice though to see some parallels to the EU, unintended or not. Kylo Ren = Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus, Finn = Kyle Katarn, Rey = Jaina Solo/Ben Skywalker(?).

Further reading:
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...ceably-absent-and-not-in-a-good-way.50035772/


3.) J.J. Abrams’ hectic style / predictable style

This is definitely a matter of taste, but I always disliked Abram hectic style of narration. His pacing is way too fast, he doesn’t take time to develop the characters, relationships or in general the whole situation. No explanations whatsoever, one scene after the next. Someone is always huffing and puffing. I know it’s Star Wars, I don’t expect a Christopher-Nolan-style pacing (which for me sometimes is too slow, but again – matter of taste). Nonetheless it would’ve been great, if the characters or story had more time to develop. E.g. Finn’s (kinda) defection. He was raised and brainwashed from childhood on to become a stormtrooper, to kill people without asking questions. The next scene, he panically breaks out one of the most wanted enemy pilots, because suddenly he doesn’t want to kill people anymore? Or Kylo Ren’s reveal of his face and identity. Way, way too early, takes all the mystery and tension.

Not only do I dislike the pace, but sometimes also his camerawork. The space battles and lightsaber duels, which Lucas directed in the PT were really fluent and beautifully shot. They were clear and had a certain aesthetics. Marquand’s Battle of Endor remains my personal favourite though, regarding space battles. Abrams on the other hand tends more to the modern, hectic, camerawork, where you can’t really enjoy the action scenes. Because it’s too blurry, shaky, too close or too far, constantly zooming in, zooming out and changing to other perspectives too quickly. Like someone posted in another thread: It felt like some flashy shots with no direction. Often you don’t know where to look at. The scenery shots were beautiful though.

As of predictability: Han Solo’s death. I don’t criticize his death per se (it IS sad though, but that’s another thing ), but rather the execution of this scene. Han and Kyle standing toe-to-toe on a bridge over a death pit without railing. Yeah, figure out the outcome. Seriously I would’ve been extremely surprised, if Kylo indeed returned with his father (without knowing his true intentions of course). But what we got was a rather a cliché-like “meh” moment, not really a shocking moment.

Further reading:
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/han-solos-death.50035712/
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/rip-asty.50035827/#post-52988050


4.) Force Ex Machina

The Jedi and the Force are a myth by now (or should I say “still”?). But for unknown reasons Rey suddenly knows how to use the Jedi Mind Trick without proper training and knowledge of the Force. Ok we had something similar with Luke intuitively using Force pull on his lightsaber in the Wampa cave without Jedi training (or was he trained by Ben according to new canon?). But in comparison the Jedi Mind Trick is a pretty specific Jedi power. Would’ve been a funnier scene, if it didn’t work out at all. But it was way too much of a deus ex machina, when she succeeded.

I have to refer back to my previous point: It was way too early, too fast. Perhaps it would’ve also worked out better, if she somehow unintentionally managed to use the mind trick (or unintentionally found out about it), and then being confused of what she just did.

Also Finn and Rey’s sudden proficient use of the lightsaber and being able to withstand a trained Dark Jedi. Why wasn’t Kylo using his alter powers during the fight anyway? Dun Möch anyone?

Further reading:
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/why-dont-jedi-need-any-training-in-tfa.50035516/


5.) Overhyped characters, who are extremely underused or underwhelming

OK, what was that? Captain Phasma - She looked badass, she was expected to be badass, she was presented as a strong badass female character. But then we got like 2 or 3 scenes with her. Where she is literally doing nothing badass. Is she like Boba Fett 2.0? Well, it’s likely that like Boba she gets a cool backstory in the novels, but in the movie she didn’t really contribute to anything, rather than deactivating the shields. Oh, wow. But Han wouldn’t really throw her into a trash compactor, right? RIGHT? So I hope we’ll see more of her in the future... doing more things.

Also where were the (other) Knights of Ren, besides showing up in the flashback/dream/vision sequence of Rey? Same problem as Captain Phasma here.

Well, Poe Dameron’s screen time was ok I guess. Still wouldn’t have hurt, if they showed how he escaped Jakku. He was away the whole middle part of the film and just reappeared out of nowhere in his X-Wing.

On the other site Lupita’s character Maz Kanata was quite underwhelming. Is she supposed to be kind of a “replacement Yoda”? I don’t know, she’s supposed to be mysterious, but it never really clicked. Still she holds a great mystery of how she was able to find Anakin’s/Luke’s lightsaber on Bespin (or if she got it from someone), which could be very interesting. And of course she is 1000 years old, 100 years older than Yoda... if he would still live of course. Abrams has to outdo everything, doesn’t he? (With the “new old” Enterprise in his Star Trek movie being much larger than the Enterprise-E, or the Starkiller Base being significantly larger than the Death Star). Bigger is not always better.

Oh, and RIP Ello Asty. You died too soon.


6.) John Williams? Where are you?

Last but not least (well for now ): The score/soundtrack by Master John Williams himself. Or was it? No really, every Star Wars movie – heck, every movie – scored by John Williams had a magical soundtrack with remarkable themes which keep stuck in your head for like centuries. But this time everything was so forgettable. What happened? Some old themes here and there which was neat, but the new themes were pretty expendable. I just re-listened to some tracks on YouTube, but already forgot them again. The old epic themes on the contrary I could hum anytime by heart.

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Well that’s all for now. I plan to watch it a second time though, with a different group of people. It will be an interesting discussion for sure and interesting to look out for certain and further details the second time. Maybe I find more things to criticize, maybe I take some criticisms back, we’ll see. For now feel free to add your own and discuss! And thanks for reading!


Best Regards
RogueDee

 

Redundant. Repetitive.

Tick tock and Lockity lock.

 

Starkiller X wing attack has no suspense because: VIII, IX .. ad infinitum. No question that they would defeat the superweapon ...

 

Complaints thread???

 

The first act is kind of messy due to the pace. We needed to spend about 5-10 more minutes on Jakku to establish character and relationships.

Agree that Abrams steps on too many of the early reveals. The final one (Luke) is damn near perfect.

While the exposition wasn't as bad as, like, Guardians of the Galaxy, it was getting there at times. The worst was when the X-wings are coming and Solo points and says. "It's The Resistance." Like, duh. Painful moment.

 

Also, my main thought on Supreme Leader Snodd: He looks just like Azog from The Hobbit trilogy. Certainly not the best use of CGI.

 

Most of the complains I have heard or read were about:

1.-It's plot being too much of a repetition of both ANH and TESB. I don't really mind this one. They clearly were trying to bring back the OT feels, letting originality for later, and the Starkiller stuff was just the stage for the main character personal plights, anyways.

2.-Rey being able to use Force Powers like Mind Trick and Force Pull without any previous training. I can live with it, but I really hope they explain this in the next movies...

3.-The scene were Starkiller destroys the Republic. It really didn't make an ounce of sense, I mean it SUCKED. It was below pre-school level. I know this is just a movie, but it was just too dumb, and it could have been easily avoided with a few slight changes. I just try to pretend that scene never happened, in order to enjoy the rest of the movie.

 

Threadmerge imminent.