The flow of Anakin's character from TPM to AOTC

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SLR, Oct 22, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SLR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    This is one of my biggest problems w/ AOTC. There doesn't seem to be any continuity in character. Now I know that in TPM Anakin was a little boy and in AOTC he is a young adult/teenager and that we all change drastically in those 9-10 years. But there doesn't seem to be any common traits or characteristics between the two. He went from a nice, selfless, caring boy into an arrogant, self-centered, unappreciative jerk. I just felt the change in character was too drastic. It leaves the audience wondering why such a dramatic shift in character w/o any real explanation for it.

    I may be nitpicking here, but I just really disliked the character of Anakin as portrayed in AOTC. He displayed none of the redeeming qualities that Obi-Wan described to LUke.
  2. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    Luke was no different in the original trilogy. But I find no problems in the drastic changes in their characters.
  3. SLR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    When was Luke an arrogant jerk in the OT? He displayed rude treatment to Yoda when he first met but that was just because of frustration. He never displayed the arrogance or the attitude that Anakin displayed.
  4. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I was more referring to the huge change in character style between the movies as opposed to what the actual character style was.

    But in what ways was Anakin a jerk in Attack of the Clones? Yes, he's arrogant, but so was Luke. I don't recall any specific events in which Anakin was a jerk to Padme, Obi-Wan, or anyone else. Can you give me an example?
  5. Ekenobi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I saw some of those traits in TPM. Concern for his mom, saying a statemnt ending with "I think". But he has grown in 10 years. Of course there is going to be a drastic change. He is rebellious teenager. Can't expect him to be the same exact person. 10 years has gone by and he has grown. I just think it is nitpicking on your part. Are you the same person you were 10 years ago? Do not think so. If someone saw you at age 10 then did not see you again for another 10 years they would see a drastic change in you. I totally believe his character's change.
  6. JediMasterGuff Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 5
    When did Anakin say "I think" in AOTC?

    I'm gonna hit myself when someone tells me.
  7. DanakinSkywalker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2003
    star 4
    I believe he means in TPM.
  8. JediMasterGuff Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 5
    Sorry, I misread what he said.
  9. SLR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    EKenobi, I agree with you in that people change over the years. I even stated such in my first post. But even though we change over the years, there seems to be core aspects of us that tend to remain constant. I just don't see any types of commonalities b/w TPM Anakin and AOTC Anakin tying them together. There is also no explanation for why such a dramatic shift occurred. WHy is he so angry and resentful? WHy is he so arrogant? WHy is he so self-centered? We as the audience have no reason to know why he is like this now, other than maybe just affiliating it with teenage angst. But Anakin's particular degree of these characteristics seems to me like it is more than just ordinary teenage angst and something more.
  10. SLR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    As to your comments ST-TPM..., I never found Luke to be arrogant at all in the OT, whiny yes but he was always rather humble and modest (IMHO).
    I guess my problem is that I find Anakin to be a rather unsympathetic character in AOTC, who I have trouble relating to. It is one of the main reasons that I did not enjoy AOTC.
  11. Obi_Frans Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    did you see/hear Anakin in the Jedi Council scenes ??(TPM)

    the only people he really seems to enjoy being with are Padme, Gui-Gon & Shmi. with the rest he was...different

    & funny thing

    in TPM he loses Gui-Gon
    AOTC he loses Shmi
    Revenge of the Sith...???
  12. MobartZmuda Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 4
    Anakin said "... I think" in AOTC during the speeder chase. After Zam goes one way, and Obi-wan points it out to him, Anakin says, "This is a short cut, I think".

    I thought the transition was pretty good between films actually. Anakin's been told he's the chosen one and the most gifted jedi ever for tens years, that's going to affect him and make him arrogant. At the beginning of the film I think Anakin showed that he still had childish characteristics.

    And the transition from TPM Anakin to AOTC Anakin is a heck of alot better than the transition from ESB Luke to ROTJ Luke. At least you can write off Anakin's change to 10 years between films, while Luke is a wholly new character almost in a vastly shorter time span, 6 months to a year. Most importantly Luke just thinks Vader still has good in him right from the start of ROTJ, what the heck? Totally different from the way he felt at the end of ESB.

    I have to disagree about Luke not being arrogant in the OT. In ANH, Luke talks about how blowing up the DS would be no big deal, he bullzeyed Wamp rats smaller than that. In ROTJ, he was one arrogant SOB the whole time he was at Jabba's. I mean with lines like, "that will be the last mistake you'll ever make" while he's handcuffed being led to the his death, or when he tells Jabba "you can either profit from this or be destroyed". Luke was very arrogant in ROTJ.
  13. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    That is where I disagree SLR. Most of the time Luke in the original trilogy is very likable, but in The Empire Strikes Back, during the Dagobah sequence, I found him to be no worse than Anakin is in Attack of the Clones. He did not apologize to Yoda for pulling his weapon on him, he was rude to Yoda at first, and practically ignored everything Yoda said to him (at least the very importaint stuff).

    Anakin I see as the same kind of character. Most of the time I see him as a very likable character, but there are times when he gets arrogant and rude and cocky.
  14. Latorski Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    Anakin's been told he's the chosen one and the most gifted jedi ever for tens years, that's going to affect him and make him arrogant. At the beginning of the film I think Anakin showed that he still had childish characteristics.

    I agree. I think the flow of the character has been good. Anakin has had 10 years to realize his powers and talents. He knows that things come easier to him than other padawans. In TPM, Anakin is nice but he's also a slave. After being freed, he's a grateful, bright-eyed kid who's just happy to be there. He's friendly and generous but also precocious and very self-confident. He's not quite cocky yet, but talented, confident children often become arrogant teenagers.
  15. darthgrendel2003 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2003
    star 1
    -one of my big problems with AOTC was that i felt no real sympathy for anakin, he does pretty much come off as being an arrogant jerk. while many would disagree with this, it is my opinion. padme comes off as being pretty stiff, but i think that she has become cold and distant during her years as a politician. she can never lose her cool, it is seen as a weakness. if i was yoda i'd put anakin over my knee (impossible i know that is) and straighten him out. obi-wan seems to be the only one who really sees the problem with anakin, that being his unbridled arrogance. anakin isn't just confident, he's dangerously confident. we see that when he charges dooku who makes an utter fool out of him. you get the feeling in TPM that anakin is really just a sweet kid, yet in AOTC he's your run of the mill know it all teenager. maybe it all makes sense after all. but i would still have liked to have seen anakin be a little bit more humble.
  16. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2002
    star 6
    Well, it was 10 years, but i see no real difference.
  17. ValinFett21 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2003
    star 1
    I just didn't see any consistence in Anakin's character. Sometimes he had that boyish charm with Padme, and others he seemed like a desparate young man. In truth, he takes us for a roller coaster ride, which could work, but the writing and acting just didn't really pull it off.

    And I agree with the original post. We completely lose touch with Anakin over ten years. From "Yipee!" to "I'm taking him now!"
  18. SLR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    I agree DarthGrendel. I think this is why the PT isn't working for me. I liked TPM and thought the trilogy was on the right track. I always thought the purpose of the trilogy was to make you sympathetic to Anakin, so that his fall to the darkside would be tragic. Anakin's character, IMHO, was so bad and unsympathetic in AOTC that I never cared about him. He lacks, IMHO, redeemable qualities that would make me feel a sense of tragedy when he falls in EP III. He just doesn't seem like the good person that Obi-Wan referred to in the OT in AOTC.
  19. MobartZmuda Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 4
    I think I'm one of the few that actually likes Anakin's character in AOTC. Reminds me of myself when I was younger. I know if I was the chosen one I'd act the same way, probably be even more arrogant, and if I was around NP I'd probably drop all my Jedi responsibilities to get a piece of that too.
  20. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    Anakin reminds me of myself right now(I'm young)

    -Jedi Master Zax Starwalker
  21. ValinFett21 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2003
    star 1
    I like Hayden when he's arrogant. He's pretty flat but he pulls it off. However, it becomes confusing when he starts to beg Padme to express her feelings. It throws the character 'off track'
  22. The_Porridge_Boy Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2001
    star 1
    Personally I have a big problem with the transition between TPM and AOTC. The thing is, Lucas hardly "showed" Anakin's growth, instead he just "told us" through the script which is a big no-no in any form of writing.

    The thing is, granted the idea that hey...Anakin grew up 10 something odd years, spending a majority of it in a Jedi Nazi camp where "no emotion here" and "no anger there" where he harboured the only girl of his life with the equilvalent of an obssessive high school crush...who wouldn't be grumpy?

    But the point being, there was still too much darn time spent and no "related theme" between TPM Anakin and AOTC Anakin. What do I mean by "related theme"? Well just check out "Indiana Jones: The Last Crusade" where there are clear similarities between Young Indy and Old Indy. However they are presented in such a way where it's believable they are the same person.

    Now like I said before, Yes Anakin went through Jedi training, trying to make him the emotional equivalent of a robot, but in order to present a legitimate sequel, you at least have to present the related theme through-out the movie. It was "hinted" at when we had Anakin "wanting a vehicle that was fast" as shown in the Zam chase. But then it just goes....into Anakin whine overdrive.

    But just to make this post a bit longer, I just have to state, I think I know why I don't like the PT as much as OT. I kept on using the "excuse" that the acting was better in OT than PT but in reality, it was just as cheesy for the lines and content. But then I realized....it's how those characters are acted out.

    Sure Luke, Leia and Han were cheesy as hell at points. Stereotypical archetypes. But they actually played them well. They were one sided...sure whatever, but they were played one sided so well. That was the thing that escaped my mind.

    Much like how we "expect" to see Christopher Walken be a weird scary looking person, or "expect" Arnold to be the super buff action hero...it's because they play them so well. Once again it's a one sided character but done well.

    I'm not saying that PT doesn't have it's share of those characters, but just to me...it wasn't played well, but more importantly the two main characters WERE SCHIZOPHRENIC. I blame both GL and the actors/actresses for the bad acting.

    GL wanted to make complex characters, but it almost felt like these "complex characters" were more like "a combination of static/stock characters". Keeping with the topic thread, I'll take Anakin for example.

    Anakin for instance...sure whatever he was the "angst ridden archetype" but also he was the "cocky archetype", and the "loving archetype" with no actual binding thread between them all...except for the actor presenting him.

    There's no leak over of personalities mixing into each other, it's like:

    Doorman: "NEXT UP ANGER...IS ANGER IN HERE?"

    Sad Anakin: "Not yet, he's in the bathroom!"

    Cocky Anakin: "Eyyyy....I can take his place. You know..kill some stuff!"

    Doorman: "Nope...we need Angry Anakin right now!"

    Not to mention that the transition between Anakin from TPM to AOTC was like:

    TPM: Anakin was a mature child, almost adult like.

    AOTC: Anakin was a young adult, definatly child-like.

    I find it hard to believe that somehow the seemingly pretty mature Anakin in TPM suddenly decided to digress into "Whiny Valley Girl Mode"

    So that's basically it. AOTC is alright, I've learned not to totally hate it, but that's a more solid reason on why I dislike the acting.
  23. darthgrendel2003 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2003
    star 1
    -porridge boy good observation abount anakin reversing his maturity in the movies. in TPM you get the idea that he is wise beyond his years, and in AOTC he retrogresses to what he should have been like as a child. It makes no sense! Where did that thoughtful child go? him growing arrogant can only explain so much. my major problem ,once agai, was that anakin is largely an unsympathetic character prone to excessive whining and complaining. he's not very manly. i though his best scene was after he kills the tuskens and he confesses to padme. i had a totally different assumption of anakin's character during the OT. i thought he would be a young man who was mature for his age, thoughful, kind, and humble with his powers. to me, anakin being humble and unassuming would make him a much more likable character, and his fall from grace all the more tragic. he'll probably be a bit more darker and even more aggressive in epIII, but just as arrogant. oh well.
  24. StarDude Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2001
    star 5
    I think there was supposed to be a big contrast in the character between the movies. It'll be more explained in Episode III. The fact is that Anakin is being restrained by the Jedi. They've basically made him rebellious.
  25. rpeugh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    SLR, even though I loved AOTC and TPM, and even though I do identify with Anakin, I understand what you mean. One of the few things that I disliked about AOTC is that I didnt think Anakin's arrogance was subtle enough like Luke's was in TESB. Now if that is what Goerge wanted, that's fine. I would rather him make this story the way he wants it, even though I may not agree with it. I am humble enough to know that he knows better than I do what is best for the SW saga.

    But I just hope he didnt do it because of the whiney, vocal minority that complained about 10 year old Anakin being too nice. I know for a fact that Goerge heard about these complaints. I would be severely disappointed if he made Anakin the way he did because of those complaints.

    However, I dont think Anakin is the jerk that people make him out to be. The only time he acts like a real jerk is in Padme's apartment, when he is arguing with Obiwan about thier mandate and whether or not they should be trying to find the killer. But I think his insecurity in trying to please and impress Padme is what sparked that. The rest of the time, he really isnt that bad of a person. When people make the blanket statement, "Anakin was an arrogant jerk", I think they say it with that scene in mind.

    The more I watch AOTC, I find the less of a jerk he seems. I think if you try to forget that you know he will one day become the 2nd biggest bad guy in cinema history, you really dont view him as much as a jerk.

    Also, in episode 3, he is sure to not be as whiney. And I think he actually will not be as arrogant, atleast not at the beginning. An arrogant person in my opinion is someeone who thinks he is better THAN HE REALLY IS. In episode 3, he will indeed be powerful, he will know it, so he will not have the need to go around trying to show it. I think his loss to Dooku in AOTC will serve to behumble him a little bit.

    Also, Im hoping that Lucas is trying to make Anakin an exagerated version of Luke. ANH Luke was a good person, but TPM Anakin was even nicer. TESB Luke was whiney, and a brat, but ATOC Anakin was even whinier and even more of an arrogant brat. ROTJ Luke was a little wiser and powerful, but still confident in his abilities and was ready to use them agressively if he felt it was needed, and I am hoping that Anakin will be an exagerrated version of that in episode 3.

    An exagerated version of ROTJ Luke Skywalker = OT Vader
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.