The flow of Anakin's character from TPM to AOTC

"I am humble enough to know that he knows better than I do what is best for the SW saga."



My jaw dropped when I saw this sentence on my computer screen. How often do we see THIS kind of statement around here?
It should be enshrined in some archive of the force.net as a rare example of modesty and respect on these boards. It shows CLASS. If only more people around here had this attitude, this would be a much more civil environment.

I salute you!!!!

 

Originally Posted by Stardude

I think there was supposed to be a big contrast in the character between the movies. It'll be more explained in Episode III. The fact is that Anakin is being crestrained by the Jedi. They've basically made him rebellious.

Oh so that means people are "allowed" to make "half complete movies". Yes really great marketing plan.

Ok....forgive me for being snooty. Afterall we do have other movies that are half complete such as Matrix Reloaded (and some degree Kill Bill, but it was *directed so well* that it could be a stand alone movie) but you do have to realize that GL had 3 hours to tell a story. In fact, he has 3 movies to tell Anakin's entire story. To me he basically struck out, twice. And worse yet, he has to rely on a "Animatrix" format of side stories to explain Anakin's heroics in the clone wars.

I don't like assuming. It's like making up a fanfic in your head. I'm not saying that I can't accept the supposed big contrast in characters. But you have to rationalize *why* Anakin became such a hothead. Not just write a paragraph of script which "summarizes" 7-10 years of Anakin's life. The way GL presented it, it seems more to me a quick fix for a hole that he dug himself. Granted it's a movie series; if what you say is true, then it has cross the line over "incomplete" as a movie. I shouldn't have to wait a few years *just* to find out about someone's past....a past that should have been shown to me in the first place, and especially having to watch a movie to make a movie I saw "before it" in order to actually like it.

Originally posted by rpeugh

The more I watch AOTC, I find the less of a jerk he seems. I think if you try to forget that you know he will one day become the 2nd biggest bad guy in cinema history, you really dont view him as much as a jerk.

I agree with your latter points on how Anakin is an exaggerated version of Luke...that's prolly why Luke is watered down version because of Padme's genes.

Anyways I have to disagree once again. I do keep Vader in mind but so far once again they are not "showing" if he's deserving of it. Maybe in ep 3. But still it's going again with a "huge contrast". Instead we see this like 2nd huge contrast over a span of 3 movies. What is with that? I don't want to see "3 different Anakins" not if they are going to be shown so differently. Like I said before, there should at least be some common thread binding the progression of a character, not just the same name and face. If someone can't do that...at least show us legitmately why each "drastic contrast" is needed.

 

So what did you want Ep 2 to be? Jedi Junior High? I don't see that much contrast between Anakin at 9 and Anakin at 19. He's a cocky kid--c'mon, taking off in a starfighter he's never flown before in the middle of a battle?--he's a cocky teenager.
He's got a temper as a kid--the dirty look he shoots Mace in the Council Chamber, pounding Greedo in the deleted scene--and he has the hell of a temper at 19.
He has a crush on Padmé at nine, nothing changes at nineteen. He's afraid of losing his mother at nine, and look what happens when he does. [face_shocked]

And I think he's meant to be childlike in a way, because his emotional development was all screwed up when he was taken from his mother

 

I don't like assuming. It's like making up a fanfic in your head. I'm not saying that I can't accept the supposed big contrast in characters. But you have to rationalize *why* Anakin became such a hothead. Not just write a paragraph of script which "summarizes" 7-10 years of Anakin's life. The way GL presented it, it seems more to me a quick fix for a hole that he dug himself. Granted it's a movie series; if what you say is true, then it has cross the line over "incomplete" as a movie. I shouldn't have to wait a few years *just* to find out about someone's past....a past that should have been shown to me in the first place, and especially having to watch a movie to make a movie I saw "before it" in order to actually like it.

Well if you don't like assuming then Star Wars really isn't for you.
In the OT we are left alot to assume about what happened between the movies. I mean look at Han Solo in ESB and why he didn't pay off Jabba when he had 3 years to do so.

Just because there is a bigger gap there between Anakin in TPM & Anakin in AOTC doesn't mean that its a hole or anything. I can naturally assume that after 10 years of training, of constrictions from the Jedi code, a lack of help with his emotional development and a strict master like Obi-Wan, Anakin is basically a rebellious, immature young man.

And what do you want? To see all his past or the relevant parts to his fall?

Lucas can't show you everything Anakin did, as well as he can't show you everything Luke did, most importantly because they are irrelevant to the story at hand.

Each episode shows the key events of Anakin & Luke's lives, what they did between has little to no relevance because they aren't key to the important stages of their life.

Anakin has changed but its clear some of it is not for the better, hell most of it is.

 

So what did you want Ep 2 to be? Jedi Junior High?

Are you assuming that's a bad thing? Plus you missed some parts of my post. I said:

I don't like assuming. It's like making up a fanfic in your head. I'm not saying that I can't accept the supposed big contrast in characters. But you have to rationalize *why* Anakin became such a hothead. Not just write a paragraph of script which "summarizes" 7-10 years of Anakin's life.

The point being it's "best" to "show" what happened, if you can't or whatever...then at least "tell" us in a "rational way"

I don't see that much contrast between Anakin at 9 and Anakin at 19. He's a cocky kid--c'mon, taking off in a starfighter he's never flown before in the middle of a battle?--he's a cocky teenager.
He's got a temper as a kid--the dirty look he shoots Mace in the Council Chamber, pounding Greedo in the deleted scene--and he has the hell of a temper at 19.
He has a crush on Padmé at nine, nothing changes at nineteen. He's afraid of losing his mother at nine, and look what happens when he does.

Like I said before:

Not to mention that the transition between Anakin from TPM to AOTC was like:

TPM: Anakin was a mature child, almost adult like.

AOTC: Anakin was a young adult, definatly child-like.

Besides, there's been plenty more Jedi who were taken at an even "younger age" and possibly even "stricter" Jedi Masters and yet they turned out fine. Don't use that "strict Jedi" arguement against me.

Ok I don't expect you to see it my way, nor should you expect me to see it yours. I notice this "difference" more than you notice his "similarities" and let's leave it at that.

And I think he's meant to be childlike in a way, because his emotional development was all screwed up when he was taken from his mother

Now do you mean he's emotionally screwed up because he left his mother, or at the time he left his mother? Is this officially canon or just implied by your thoughts?

Well if you don't like assuming then Star Wars really isn't for you.

Ok, is this an official quote from GL? Or is it the decree of fans? Or just your opinion? Because if such a bold statement such as that is so true, then by all means fans should have the power to dictate what is exactly wanted in Star Wars. GL would listening to you, not just to himself.

In the OT we are left alot to assume about what happened between the movies. I mean look at Han Solo in ESB and why he didn't pay off Jabba when he had 3 years to do so.

You know, that's an unfair comparison. If anything a more fair comparison would be Han Solo to Jar Jar. The point being this "assumption of time" is being attributed to Anakin Skywalker....THE MAIN CHARACTER OF THE SERIES. If his story isn't really explained (in a movie which "story" is most important) then how can you enjoy the character? A character who would prolly take up at least 1/2 of the screen time. Especially when you have a small reference to him in a past episode, yet just got tossed loosey goosey character flaws in the next one?

Han Solo is a supporting character. Granted a supporting character who does have great bearing on the story, but still a supporting character. His story does weave into having Luke and Leia save him. His past is insignificant mainly because it was so easily explained and also because he's a supporting character.

Much like Jar Jar in the senate. Sure his part in the story has merit, but his past doesn't. It makes no difference if it's explained or not because he's a supporting character.

Just because there is a bigger gap there between Anakin in TPM & Anakin in AOTC doesn't mean that its a hole or anything.

Oh really? So please. Next time abandon your 6 year old child, never talk to them in 15 years and then come back and *try* to act like their parent. Then tell me if there isn't a "hole" there.

 

But you have to rationalize *why* Anakin became such a hothead.

I don't think he became a hothead, he always was a hothead. It was just more strongly expressed in AotC.

I don't see that much contrast between Anakin at 9 and Anakin at 19. He's a cocky kid--c'mon, taking off in a starfighter he's never flown before in the middle of a battle?--he's a cocky teenager.
He's got a temper as a kid--the dirty look he shoots Mace in the Council Chamber, pounding Greedo in the deleted scene--and he has the hell of a temper at 19.
He has a crush on Padmé at nine, nothing changes at nineteen. He's afraid of losing his mother at nine, and look what happens when he does.


Like I said before:

Not to mention that the transition between Anakin from TPM to AOTC was like:

TPM: Anakin was a mature child, almost adult like.

AOTC: Anakin was a young adult, definatly child-like.

Besides, there's been plenty more Jedi who were taken at an even "younger age" and possibly even "stricter" Jedi Masters and yet they turned out fine. Don't use that "strict Jedi" arguement against me.


I don't see how your point follows on from mine. I was pointing out the similarities between nine-yo!Anakin and nineteen-yo!Anakin, not saying that Anakin was a brilliant example of a mature 19-yo.

The point about Anakin is that he was taken at an age when he has known a normal family life, has already formed a strong attachment to his mother. A baby will not have known anything other than the Jedi Order, and so will have no conflicting loyalties. The Jedi will be its family. Anakin never quite manages this; he retains his love for his mother and Padmé, outside and intese attachments.

And I meant that being taken from his mother at that age did arrest his emotional development to some degree. George Lucas has stated in an interview that he changed Anakin's age from 12 to 9 in TPM precisely so this separation would have more impact on Anakin's psyche. So he's a mature kid and an immature 19-yo. His actual age is probably 15
Anakin in a way doesn't make an adult choice until RotJ, when he sacrifices himself to save Luke.

I don't see anything in Anakin's AotC character that cannot be extrapolated from his TPM character, taking into account he's passed through adolescence since then. Unless Lucas made Ep 1.1-1.9, we cannot see every bit of growth Anakin does during his teenage years. That's what I meant by 'Jedi Junior High'. We see enough complaining about Lucas making a film about 9yo Anakin, what would they say about films featuring a 10, 11, 12, 13...etc Jake Lloyd?
Luke changes between films as well. Do you have a problem with that too? We simply cannot follow ever minute of a character's life. It would be tedious.

The three PT films are all about big 'turning points' in Anakin's life. In TPM, he left his mother, he met Padmé, he became a Jedi Padawan. AotC, he loses his mother and takes his first step to the Dark Side in the Tusken camp, and marries Padmé.
Ep3, he's going to fall. In between episodes, it's pretty much the status quo, no life-changing moments, nothing to make a film out of.

And I don't like your tone. It's certainly bashing and it's verging on being rude to other posters.

 

I don't think he became a hothead, he always was a hothead. It was just more strongly expressed in AotC.

In other words he's "different" in AOTC. Don't mix messages here. I could just as easily say I'm defending my point justly whereas you say that I'm bordering on rude and bashing. Don't equate the imputence of TPM Anakin with the clearly different Anakin of AOTC.

Listen. Let's leave this point once again. Let's agree to disagree because obviously you're happy with your blanket statement with what "hot-headeness" entails and I'm happy with my "seemingly two seperate Anakins accredited to bad plot-building".

I don't see how your point follows on from mine. I was pointing out the similarities between nine-yo!Anakin and nineteen-yo!Anakin, not saying that Anakin was a brilliant example of a mature 19-yo.

Yes wonderful similarities. Three similarity of his rebellious actions, one of which was a deleted scene and which cannot be considered canon. The deleted scene could be cut because it's fat, GL wanted to show a gentler non-hotheaded side of Anakin or...*gasp* it's IRREVELANT.

For a person who seems to take a stance on "irrevelence" I truly wonder why you decided to refer to a "deleted" scene which obviously make it irrevelent.

Besides, I could possibly scrummage up points where it contradicts what Anakin's behaviour should be. The point is you are referring to Anakin from an childhood stage. If I were to find other childhood attributes of Young Anakin this by your reasoning....those attributes should be present in his 19 yo form as well? Even if the attributes wholly contradict the actions of 19 yo Anakin?

And most likely you're going to attribute any "contradicting" ideas that I bring up to the Jedi Training and 10 years being away from his mom. By whose authority? Yours? GL?

The point about Anakin is that he was taken at an age when he has known a normal family life, has already formed a strong attachment to his mother. A baby will not have known anything other than the Jedi Order, and so will have no conflicting loyalties. The Jedi will be its family. Anakin never quite manages this; he retains his love for his mother and Padmé, outside and intese attachments.

Once again is this your idea? Assuming once again?

And I meant that being taken from his mother at that age did arrest his emotional development to some degree. George Lucas has stated in an interview that he changed Anakin's age from 12 to 9 in TPM precisely so this separation would have more impact on Anakin's psyche.

In an interview. Well Ackbar. Bravo GL just saved AOTC from being an actors wasteland yet again. He *changed* Anakin's age. How wonderful that instead of *showing us* the impact on Anakin's psyche in the movie, he just *told us* in an interview outside the movie. That suddenly makes AOTC much more believable and better. Might as well just say "Yeah...he loved his mom. A lot. So he'll be mad when she dies. Yeah." Utterly brilliant.

So he's a mature kid and an immature 19-yo. His actual age is probably 15 Anakin in a way doesn't make an adult choice until RotJ, when he sacrifices himself to save Luke.

Once again, is this your idea? It seems to me a pretty adult choice when he decided to choke that Imperial commander. I think what you mean to say, he didn't make a "Light side of the force" choice until RotJ, not an "Adult choice". But that's just my idea and assumption so it has to be true.

I don't see anything in Anakin's AotC character that cannot be extrapolated from his TPM character, taking into account he's passed through adolescence since then. Unless Lucas made Ep 1.1-1.9, we cannot see every bit of growth Anakin does during his teenage years. That's what I meant by 'Jedi Junior High'. We see enough complaining about Lucas making a film about 9yo Anakin, what would they say about films featuring a 10, 11, 12, 13...etc Jake Ll

 

I don't think he became a hothead, he always was a hothead. It was just more strongly expressed in AotC.


In other words he's "different" in AOTC. Don't mix messages here. I could just as easily say I'm defending my point justly whereas you say that I'm bordering on rude and bashing. Don't equate the imputence of TPM Anakin with the clearly different Anakin of AOTC.

There's a difference between a logical extrapolation and a 180 degree flip. If you can't or don't want to extrapolate, maybe you should go and watch a film where everything is spelled out twice. Which are you complaining about? I'm pointing out how Anakin's AotC character follows on from his TPM character without being self-contradictory. Different, yes, because he's ten years older, but not unreasonably so. I never said he wasn't different, my point is he's consistent. Did you expect him to stay Jake Lloyd forever?




I don't see how your point follows on from mine. I was pointing out the similarities between nine-yo!Anakin and nineteen-yo!Anakin, not saying that Anakin was a brilliant example of a mature 19-yo.


Yes wonderful similarities. Three similarity of his rebellious actions, one of which was a deleted scene and which cannot be considered canon. The deleted scene could be cut because it's fat, GL wanted to show a gentler non-hotheaded side of Anakin or...*gasp* it's IRREVELANT.

For a person who seems to take a stance on "irrevelence" I truly wonder why you decided to refer to a "deleted" scene which obviously make it irrevelent.

I never mentioned 'irrelevance'. That was another poster, not me. And even without the deleted scene, it can be seen that Anakin has a temper.

Besides, I could possibly scrummage up points where it contradicts what Anakin's behaviour should be. The point is you are referring to Anakin from an childhood stage. If I were to find other childhood attributes of Young Anakin this by your reasoning....those attributes should be present in his 19 yo form as well? Even if the attributes wholly contradict the actions of 19 yo Anakin?

And most likely you're going to attribute any "contradicting" ideas that I bring up to the Jedi Training and 10 years being away from his mom. By whose authority? Yours? GL?

I don't undestand what you're trying to say. Where what contradictions 'what Anakin's behaviour should be'? Who says what his behaviour should be? What contradictory attributes?


The point about Anakin is that he was taken at an age when he has known a normal family life, has already formed a strong attachment to his mother. A baby will not have known anything other than the Jedi Order, and so will have no conflicting loyalties. The Jedi will be its family. Anakin never quite manages this; he retains his love for his mother and Padmé, outside and intese attachments.


Once again is this your idea? Assuming once again?

It's obvious that Anakin is attached to his mother.


And I meant that being taken from his mother at that age did arrest his emotional development to some degree. George Lucas has stated in an interview that he changed Anakin's age from 12 to 9 in TPM precisely so this separation would have more impact on Anakin's psyche.


In an interview. Well Ackbar. Bravo GL just saved AOTC from being an actors wasteland yet again. He *changed* Anakin's age. How wonderful that instead of *showing us* the impact on Anakin's psyche in the movie, he just *told us* in an interview outside the movie. That suddenly makes AOTC much more believable and better. Might as well just say "Yeah...he loved his mom. A lot. So he'll be mad when she dies. Yeah." Utterly brilliant.

I think it's pretty clear that Anakin is traumatised by leaving Shmi. Look at him on the spaceship with Padmé. He's not the bright bubbly kid he was on Tatooine, he's hurting badly. Yoda flat-out says he fears to lose her.

So he's a mature kid and an immature 19-yo. His actual age is probably 15 Anakin in a way doesn't make an adult choice until RotJ, when h

 

There's a difference between a logical extrapolation and a 180 degree flip. If you can't or don't want to extrapolate, maybe you should go and watch a film where everything is spelled out twice. Which are you complaining about? I'm pointing out how Anakin's AotC character follows on from his TPM character without being self-contradictory. Different, yes, because he's ten years older, but not unreasonably so. I never said he wasn't different, my point is he's consistent. Did you expect him to stay Jake Lloyd forever?

If you have to read it twice then I think you have a problem. You point out one aspect, an aspect of his character that debatable whether or not is consistent between his two ages. Like I said before, leave it as with agree to disagree ok? Since that consistency can be debatable.

I didn't say it has to be a 180 degree flip, when I meant different I didn't say 180 degree difference, because this is what a lot of debates get into..EXTREMES. I didn't want to say this because it's you opinion, but since you implied that I somehow see a 180 turn it does have to be.

To explain it in terms you might understand, it's like a 90 or even 65 degree turn. There's a clear difference between assualt and murder. But if you want to make a blanket statement that it's "just anger" then fine because in a general sense you are right. I'm just more discerning about what I see.

I never mentioned 'irrelevance'. That was another poster, not me. And even without the deleted scene, it can be seen that Anakin has a temper.

Sorry my bad. I appologize for that miscommunication. So he has a temper, is that you only defense? How about this. He didn't use a lightsaber in TPM. And he can use one in AOTC. What is with this? Clearly it's contradictory because he didn't use one in TPM yet he can in AOTC. Why is that?

Because it was explained. It can easily be explained because he attened Jedi Academy. Now if it was that easy and done well enough to explain why Anakin can use a lightsaber in AOTC, then I don't know why his growth wasn't handled just as well from TPM to AOTC.

Perhaps it was just too complex for GL to explain "in movie" because he doesn't have the ability to show it. Perhaps he treated his explainations of characters too much like his explainations of how to weild a lightsaber.

I don't undestand what you're trying to say. Where what contradictions 'what Anakin's behaviour should be'? Who says what his behaviour should be? What contradictory attributes?

Ok let me explain it again:

1. You give 3 attributes (one which is moot since it's a deleted scene) on what Anakin's behavious should be. Which in your mind is what his behavious is. The difference being you accept what you concept is instead of seeing it as probability.

2. In giving those 3 attributes in support of your arguement, you are saying that Attributes found in TPM = Attributes found in AOTC. Which is also true of your thinking since you decided that Young Anakin's hotheadness is the same as AOTC Anakin's, but only more expressed. Unless you want to say it's different.

3. Using your logic, then I can say "other" attributes that I find in TPM Anakin that should be his his true behaviour in AOTC because using your logic, Attributes found in TPM = Attributes found in AOTC, EVEN if the attributes contradict what AOTC Anakin exhibits.

You are saying what Anakin's behaviour should be, in fact your going so far as saying what Anakin's behaviour is.

I think it's pretty clear that Anakin is traumatised by leaving Shmi. Look at him on the spaceship with Padmé. He's not the bright bubbly kid he was on Tatooine, he's hurting badly. Yoda flat-out says he fears to lose her.

If it's pretty clear, then why on earth did you use GL's quote? To convince me? If I don't buy into the horse hockey in the movie then why on earth did you decide to go back to th

 

No... It's Great to me.

Remember the scene between Obi-Wan and Anakin in the elevator? That was good... But I think he started getting Arrogant really bad to Impress Padme?

 

He went from a nice, selfless, caring boy into an arrogant, self-centered, unappreciative jerk.

Hey, so did I.



In all seriousness, I can understand the shift in characterization from the two films, but it is rather jarring (and, IMHO, the reason why Anakin could have been older in TPM, but I digress...). There are definitely parallels between Anakin and Luke (when AOTC first came out, I constantly referred (off the boards) to Anakin as Darth-Petulant) - the cocky attitude, the whininess, the desire to see the universe, the whininess, the underlying rage, the whininess, etc., etc.

 

In all seriousness, I can understand the shift in characterization from the two films, but it is rather jarring (and, IMHO, the reason why Anakin could have been older in TPM, but I digress...). There are definitely parallels between Anakin and Luke (when AOTC first came out, I constantly referred (off the boards) to Anakin as Darth-Petulant) - the cocky attitude, the whininess, the desire to see the universe, the whininess, the underlying rage, the whininess, etc., etc.

That's pretty funny. If Darth Vader is the poster boy for the Dark Side (Generally speaking) Then I think the new path of the darkside should be fear leads to anger, anger leads to whining and whining leads to the dark side.

 

To explain it in terms you might understand, it's like a 90 or even 65 degree turn. There's a clear difference between assualt and murder. But if you want to make a blanket statement that it's "just anger" then fine because in a general sense you are right.

Assualt and murder both stem from anger. Assualt can easily lead to murder. Anakin's character is progressing from the cute kid in TPM to Darth Vader. Of course his anger is going increase. I'm saying that it was there in a small degree when he was a small boy, and developed as he grew.

I'm just more discerning about what I see.

Well, maybe I can 'discern' a natural sequence of character where you cannot, hmm?


Ok let me explain it again:

1. You give 3 attributes (one which is moot since it's a deleted scene) on what Anakin's behavious should be. Which in your mind is what his behavious is. The difference being you accept what you concept is instead of seeing it as probability.

No, I gave three examples of what Anakin does, and used them to generalise a personality trait.

2. In giving those 3 attributes in support of your arguement, you are saying that Attributes found in TPM = Attributes found in AOTC. Which is also true of your thinking since you decided that Young Anakin's hotheadness is the same as AOTC Anakin's, but only more expressed. Unless you want to say it's different.

I said traits found in AotC may be logically deduced from traits and actions in TPM.

3. Using your logic, then I can say "other" attributes that I find in TPM Anakin that should be his his true behaviour in AOTC because using your logic, Attributes found in TPM = Attributes found in AOTC, EVEN if the attributes contradict what AOTC Anakin exhibits.

What other attributes? I cannot understand your grammar.

You are saying what Anakin's behaviour should be, in fact your going so far as saying what Anakin's behaviour is.

No, I pointed out things he actually does. Is English your first language, BTW?

My word, are you listening to yourself? That's like saying:

If you can accept ANH as canon then what's wrong with accepting a deleted scene as canon?

The cartoon is supposed to be there. The deleted scene *wasn't there nor was is supposed to be there*. Even if it was meant to be there, it exited stage right because there was a choice to be made on it's merit whether or not it was supposed to be there. If that's the case, then my Jar Jar coloring book is canon.

It's in the novelisation. That's a higher level of canon than general EU.

 

What flow? Heh.

I think there'd be a flow if GL had kept stuff in such as the scripted Sand People scene from the TPM novel and the beating up Greedo scene. Both would have been excellent ways to tie 9 year old Anakin to AoTC Anakin.

 

Assualt and murder both stem from anger. Assualt can easily lead to murder. Anakin's character is progressing from the cute kid in TPM to Darth Vader. Of course his anger is going increase. I'm saying that it was there in a small degree when he was a small boy, and developed as he grew.

Yes assault and murder both stem from anger, but are they exactly the same? See this is what I mean by "blanket statements". And you didn't answer my question, are we going to agree to disagree? Because obviously we are going to budge. Like I said, if you are comfortable with generalizing, that's fine. If the world is just black and white to you that's great go right ahead see it as such.

I'm just more discerning about what I see.

Well, maybe I can 'discern' a natural sequence of character where you cannot, hmm?

You know what? For a person who seems to have the capability to read in between the lines, you are taking this "Natural Anakin Progression" a tad to simply. I can understand the idea of "natural sequence" if I generalize enough. I can entertain the thought, but perhaps you can't discern...period. Nor entertain anyone else's ideas.

No, I gave three examples of what Anakin does, and used them to generalise a personality trait.

Ok my bad. Sorry about that. So you give three "actions" that Anakins does, once again one of them being moot because it's a deleted scene.

2. In giving those 3 attributes in support of your arguement, you are saying that Attributes found in TPM = Attributes found in AOTC. Which is also true of your thinking since you decided that Young Anakin's hotheadness is the same as AOTC Anakin's, but only more expressed. Unless you want to say it's different.

I said traits found in AotC may be logically deduced from traits and actions in TPM.

So it's logically deduced...but take a stand here and now. Are the traits different or aren't they (hotheadness absolutly = more expressed hotneadness)? When you mean Logically deduced are you claiming that logic is on your side?. That logic supports your stance?. Are you basically saying that logic supports your conclusion of human emotion?. That's like saying,

"Oh this guy/girl really digs me, we hang out all the time and he/she's flirting with me. Then I ask her out and then he/she says no! What gives?"

Now if a person seems to be flirting with you, likes your company and hangs out with you all the time, shouldn't it be "logically deduced" that said person should want to date you?

Ok we'll go with "said logic" which basically means you agree with my equations, given bit of tweaking due to the mis-communication on my behalf in point #1.

3. Using your logic, then I can say "other" attributes that I find in TPM Anakin that should be his his true behaviour in AOTC because using your logic, Attributes found in TPM = Attributes found in AOTC, EVEN if the attributes contradict what AOTC Anakin exhibits.

What other attributes? I cannot understand cyour grammar.

Ok not attributes. Since this point does have to be ammended as well. It should read:

3. Using your logic; then I can say "other" actions that I find in TPM Anakin that can logically deduce his traits in AOTC. Because using your logic: Actions/examples of traits found in TPM = traits found in AOTC.

EVEN if the traits "logically deduced" from TPM Anakin actions contradict the traits of AOTC Anakin exhibited in AOTC.

This meaning, I might find actions from TPM Anakin that imply a certain trait in Anakin in AOTC, but Anakin's actions in AOTC might not exhibit the "implied traits".

[blockquuote]No, I pointed out things he actually does. Is English your first language, BTW?[/blockquote]

Once again sorry for the mis-reading of your post. And yes English is my first language. Is English your first langage as well?

It's in the novelisation. That'

 

The TPM Anakin will not flow in comparison to AOTC Anakin because these are two separate stages of Anakin's life. He's grown into an adult and as an adult, he has adult concerns. We all tend to lose our innocence by the time we are 14 or fifteen years old. I had no problem with the flow of the character within those two films.

And to add when you are older, you view things differently than you did when you were a child. I've been a child and in my late teens, and there's a gigantic difference between those two stages of moral and mental development.

 

The TPM Anakin will not flow in comparison to AOTC Anakin because these are two separate stages of Anakin's life. He's grown into an adult and as an adult, he has adult concerns. We all tend to lose our innocence by the time we are 14 or fifteen years old. I had no problem with the flow of the character within those two films.

Thank you. You have no problem with the film. Therefore you solved all of my problems that I have with the film. Completely logical.

And to add when you are older, you view things differently than you did when you were a child. I've been a child and in my late teens, and there's a gigantic difference between those two stages of moral and mental development.

This is positvely great. An application of reality to the medium of a sci-fi epic film. In fact why doesn't GL just solve all my problems, and have Anakin in TPM be called someone else. They are so different, it just doesn't matter anymore that Anakin TPM is the same as Anakin AOTC.

Have you no concept of good filmmaking? Have you been so blinded by the laser show that GL had created to see the blatent disregard to provide a connection between TPM Anakin and AOTC Anakin? Don't answer that you like other films and list them off, because that doesn't cut it. I know that there is a selective expectations that all of us have inside of us when judging films.

All I am saying is that there is no flow between the two Anakins. It's pathetic at best because of the fact that two lines of script describe basically 8-10 years of his life and fans have to fill in the gaps with general blanket assumptions. And novels which IMHO have no place as a replacement for what can been have done better on-screen.

If anything, the current animated AOTC shorts would have been better used towards explaining Anakin's past.

 

I wasn't that difficult to connect the two. Unless you weren't paying attention to the movies. I took a big Star Wars break between the two movies and remained spoiler-free until the very end. I had no trouble believing Anakin had grown into this sort of person. Some people are still stuck on who they thought Anakin should be and paid little attention to what was going on the movies.

 

i have problems with this too. I mean, i see 10 years passed and he changed a lot, but such a huge transition all offscreen just doesn't work for me. Anyway, here's what i managed to see so far:
-his main motivation was his crush on Padme, in both movies.
-the moment when he tells his mom "You've always said that the biggest problem in the Galaxy is that noone helps each other" (well, not exactly, but something like that) is the same as his line "Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is
central to a Jedi's life, so you might say we're encouraged
to love."
-he "can't let things go", in both movies: he wants everything at the same time: his mother, Padme and being a Jedi.
-he isn't very impressed by the Jedi Council and seems to mistrust them already in TPM, he realizes they aren't exactly what he's dreamed about, so it's natural that after spending 10 years in their midst he becomes frustrated and arrogant
-i think his fighting scene with Greedo wasn't in the theatrical cut, but it shows he's capable of fighting out of anger (well, pretty much like an average 9 year old boy)

 

"Show, don't tell" is the first thing you learn in writing. It's just bad writing, that's all it is.

 

Most people change a lot between the ages of 9 and 19...... sheesh. That's quite a gap full of probably some of the biggest changes a person goes through... especally someone who was taken from their mother and put in some wierd cult where your boss is a little green guy with big ears who talks funny and at the same time could tear you a new one...

He had a bit of a temper in TPM... he was pretty sure of himself as a podracer.... he talked some smack to Sebulba, even gave the Jedi council some lip.....

 

"Show, don't tell."




Yes.



Would you rather have a beautiful woman tell you what she looks like naked, or show you?

 

I disagree with the [raising the "I am humble neough to know that he [Lucas] knows more thna I what's best for Star Wars."

That's not necessarily true. It's his right to design SW, and he might know how he wants to tell his story. But once he makes those choices, he, like any storyteller, can celarly be evaluated on how good or bad those choices were.

 

That's not necessarily true. It's his right to design SW, and he might know how he wants to tell his story. But once he makes those choices, he, like any storyteller, can celarly be evaluated on how good or bad those choices were.

Well to you maybe but to people like rpeugh and myself (since I share his sentiment), Lucas' choices for his story are good choices because they work for what he is trying to show.
You can disagree, but I think you're wrong and disrespectful to the storyteller, but you still have the right to your view.

 

Well just because somebody gives an opinion of a movie that doesn't mean they're being disrespectful. None of have talked to Lucas and said "you suck! You don't know how to direct!". You only think it's disrespectful because YOU don't like hearing negative comments, nothing more.

But anyway, let's not get off topic.

I understand why Lucas didn't make Anakin arrogant in TPM, he was trying to establish Anakin as a normal boy. That's a big part of the story, how a good kid can grow up to be an evil person.

But, Lucas should have shown more of the AOTC Anakin in TPM. Or else shown more of an evolution of the Anakin character in AOTC. (Character Development) Instead of having such a major contrast between the two movies.