The flow of Anakin's character from TPM to AOTC

You ever notice how these arguments always go on for longer than they should?

It's because everybody's too busy getting louder and louder with their arguments without actually listening to what others are saying.

At the risk of sounding annoyingly repetitive, I'd like to AGAIN bring attention to the fact that, whilst perfectly sound, all these explanations of Anakin's character are inherently flawed because they are ASSUMPTIONS.

NOWHERE in the MOVIE is it said that Anakin is forbidden to contact his mother or Padme. NOWHERE in the MOVIE, is there any indication of what has happened in the 10 years since we last saw him.

You can make assumptions all you want, you can use all the logic you can muster. But that doesn't change the fact that the 10 year gap seriously jars the consistency of Anakin's character.

 

The only thing Anakin did wrong was to disobey his main assignment of staying with Padmé on Naboo.

 

Re: Anakin not contacting his mother.

The Jedi separate children from their parents at a young age so as to not allow them to get too close and attached to their parents. With attachment comes the need to protect. If the Jedi heard that one of their parents is in danger, the instinct to help their parents would kick in, just as it did with Anakin.

This could prove dangerous for both the Jedi in question and those around him. When Anakin went ot rescue his mother, it proved very dangerous for Anakin personally. He got his first real taste of dark power, and I'm sure he liked it at the time. Sure, he felt bad afterwords.

But obviously he got more tastes of that dark power along the way and finally gave into it, as is obvious based on that he turns into Vader.

When he found his mother in the position she was in, he abanded all Jedi training and let anger take complete control of him. It was because she was his mother and because he had been very attached to her that he felt this way. I am willing to bet that had it not been his mother (or Padme, or possibly even another Jedi) in that situation, and just a regular person that he had to save on one of his missions, he wouldn't have gone crazy like that.

It was because he had an attachment that he took his first major step towards the dark side, and I am guessing that since the Jedi don't allow attachment, they wouldn't allow him to go try and save his mother (who he was attached to).

Re: Not contacting Padme.

Think about it, after TPM, Anakin was 9, Padme was 14. Even if Anakin was somewhat interested, he wasn't old enough to really know what was going on with his feelings, and Padme, being 14, certainly isn't going to want to date a 9 year old. She may have thought he was "cute," but that's as far as it goes when teenage girls view boys that young, and its not "cute" in a sexual way.

Padme remained Queen on Naboo for eight years after TPM, and therefore would have been 22 and Anakin 17 by the time she converted to Senator and would have been on Coruscant a bit more often. This, of course, does not mean that she would be there all the time, or that Anakin even knew she was now a senator. Considering the Jedi involvement with the senate, I'm sure he did know, but it is certainly not garunteed.

Even then, he can't just get up and leave to go look for her. He's a Jedi, he has to be more responsible than that. And the Jedi Council isn't going to let him go looking for her (assuming they have any common sense)...that's basically like Anakin asking if he could go on a date. The Jedi forbid attachment, and they certainly wouldn't want him to get attached.

 

I give up.

 

You can make assumptions all you want, you can use all the logic you can muster. But that doesn't change the fact that the 10 year gap seriously jars the consistency of Anakin's character.

Nothing was done without a purpose. Relax.

 

Let's not forget Palo, who Padme had a liking to when she was twelve and he was a "few years older". Anakin on the other hand, well, you get the picture.

 

"A few" could mean 2-3, while Anakin was 5. Its much more common for a 15 year old (just throwing out a random year) to date a 17-18 year old (it happens all the time at my school) than a 14-15 year old to date a 19-20 year old.

 

Redxavier, I agree completely, but then I always did. You're post is exactly correct. Everyone here has made assumptions and filled in the blanks based on EU, GL interviews (to explain what's missing in the movies), and their own fill in the blank assumptions. The holes are not small missives they are huge blanks where one must make gigantic leaps of faith and dismiss logic.

Is Star Wars PT written for the fanboy who reads the novel's and other fanbased fiction such as StarWars.com just so they can figure it all out and fill in the blanks as George wishes? Or is it for the mass population who doesnt care enough to spend too much time calculating the probabilities and days contemplating the Jedi religious philosophy and tenats?

You have all come to conclusions that make sense to you based on the knowledge you've gleamed through your years of fandom, however for those who just like a great Sci-Fi movie once in a while (every 3-4 years) Anakin's transition from sweet kid to Jedi mass murderer doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He seems to have already become a Sith and it's only the Jedi who don't realize it.

 

So hanbay people are just making stuff up? I don't buy that one bit.

 

Actually, I know people who aren't big fans or anything, and just like the films a bit, who weren't confused at all. The most I'd hear was a "He's changed a lot in the last 10 years...but being a teen at that age can do that to you...and of course he'll seem different with how long its been...I'd know from experience" type reply (obviously these coming from adults).

It seems its the "long term fans" who happen to be bashers are mainly the only ones not understanding this aspect of the film. Everyone I've seen doesn't seem to have a hard time figuring it out at all.

 

Actually, I know people who aren't big fans or anything, and just like the films a bit, who weren't confused at all. The most I'd hear was a "He's changed a lot in the last 10 years...but being a teen at that age can do that to you...and of course he'll seem different with how long its been...I'd know from experience" type reply (obviously these coming from adults).

I'm not confused, I just think that the 10 years have changed Anakin to a greater extent than could be logically supposed by what we are told or shown in the Movies. My logic tells me that 10 years within a religious order who's whole philosophy is one of "Compassion" and "Serenity" wouldnt produce the Anakin we see in AOTC. Therefore I can conclude that his anger, power-hunger and violent nature must have been there prior to his becoming a Jedi and perhaps his Jedi training only helped cover it up.

It seems its the "long term fans" who happen to be bashers are mainly the only ones not understanding this aspect of the film. Everyone I've seen doesn't seem to have a hard time figuring it out at all.

Why do you label me a basher because I come to a different conclusion than you on Anakin's nature and what I perceive as a flaw within the movie? Again I think I have it figured out, as I'm sure you do as well. Just remember the "All" you refer to is a small group of people within a fandom.

The problem is that when you create a literary or message based art form the author usually goes to great pains to get his central message and characterizations understood by the masses. My point is only that the characterization of Anakin, the main protagonist/antagonist of this piece, is so underdeveloped and unexplained that it has produced a multitude of interpretations of his basic personality. Since he is the main character this flaw weakens the overall plot and effectiveness of the story.

If we all come to different conclusions on where he's coming from at the start of Episode III then our understanding of that episode and the series as whole will be different. Therefore the message is changed as is the story's effectiveness. I have no idea what George had in mind, this all maybe purposful on his part. Perhaps I'm right and Anakin was irrevocably tainted even in TPM, perhaps you are right and the Jedi ruined him. I think that basic question is huge and changes the story greatly and therefore I classify it as plot hole.

 

If we all come to different conclusions on where he's coming from at the start of Episode III then our understanding of that episode and the series as whole will be different.

We who is this we? Ever one will have a different kind of conclusions and come away with different messages after seeing a movie. Same with reading a book, or watching something on TV. If people started having the same opinion about ever thing this woudl be a real boaring world to live in.

 

however for those who just like a great Sci-Fi movie once in a while (every 3-4 years) Anakin's transition from sweet kid to Jedi mass murderer doesn't make a whole lot of sense

I doubt those who just like a great Sci-Fi movie once in a while have a problem seeing how it works. And I doubt those who just like a great Sci-Fi movie once in a while care very much if they don't see how it works.

My logic tells me that 10 years within a religious order who's whole philosophy is one of "Compassion" and "Serenity" wouldnt produce the Anakin we see in AOTC.

Don't overlook the scene between Anakin and Palpatine where we are shown Palpatine building Anakin up, building up his ego. Singling Anakin out as better than all other Jedi. It's a subtle scene, but it makes it obvious that Palpatine has been in Anakin's ear between movies slowly making him more and more selfcentered, slowly seperating him from the Jedi.

 

Tis true, tis true in most cases but since we(royal we) are blessed with a writer who must explain his every idea and creative thought process and has for the most part stated his proposed purpose/mission statement with what he wishes to accomplish with the PT and how he wishes us to perceive Anakin then he does have that burden.

From what I"ve read, We are to feel sorry for Anakin. I believe that is impossible for me at this point and I'm sure I'm not the only one. He wishes to show us how a good boy becomes bad or evil. He missed his chance he never showed us how, only that he did. From the spoilers I've read Episode III isn't going to endear him to me/we anymore. (edited out spoilers, sorry forgot where I was)

However, the main subject in this topic was how Anakin's character/story arc was weak due to the unexplained character change from one episode to the other. In one episode he's happy kid, he's thrilled with becoming a Jedi, everyone is okay with him leaving his MOm and going to Coruscant. The next he's angry, resentful, blames Obi-Wan for everyting, thinks he's being held-back, arrogant etc... Great now tell me or show me why. To sympathize with somebody one must feel empathy for that person (understand them). How can we when we aren't allowed knowledge of the why of things.

I don't know why he blames Obi-Wan for everything, why he feels he's being held back, why he hasn't contacted his mother or Padme, why he's so angry? Therefore I don't care. He just seems like an irrational whiney kid who seems to have it pretty good.

Don't overlook the scene between Anakin and Palpatine where we are shown Palpatine building Anakin up, building up his ego. Singling Anakin out as better than all other Jedi. It's a subtle scene, but it makes it obvious that Palpatine has been in Anakin's ear between movies slowly making him more and more selfcentered, slowly seperating him from the Jedi.

Good point and this does explain a little of the arrogance. However, I would think that the kind of anger and immorality that would produce a massacre that includes women and children isn't caused by a few murmurings from Palpatine building his ego. I just can't imagine little Anakin killing anyone in a rage. Even Palpatine should be offset by day and day out brainwashing by the Jedi.

 

hanbaby, edit out the spoiler

 

Hanbaby like the last poster said edit out the spoiler. I don't want to know anything about Ep3 yet.

 

I agree SLR.

It feel s like 95% of Anakins journey to the darkside happened offscreen inbetween the ending of TPM and the beginning of AOTC.

"Good point and this does explain a little of the arrogance. However, I would think that the kind of anger and immorality that would produce a massacre that includes women and children isn't caused by a few murmurings from Palpatine building his ego. I just can't imagine little Anakin killing anyone in a rage. Even Palpatine should be offset by day and day out brainwashing by the Jedi."

Yeah, in a way GL did too good a job of showing Anakin as good in TPM because there is no reconciling him with the character in AOTC.

Even more problematic still is the fact that Anakin seems LESS evil after he slaughters the tuskens then before he did. He doesn't really seem like a good guy until the whole Geonosis adventure.

 

I don't know why he blames Obi-Wan for everything, why he feels he's being held back, why he hasn't contacted his mother or Padme, why he's so angry?

I don't see what's keeping you from seeing these things. It seems as if you're dismissing the reasons/possibilities. As if you do see these things, but you're making it more difficult than it is, more difficult than necessary.

However, I would think that the kind of anger and immorality that would produce a massacre that includes women and children isn't caused by a few murmurings from Palpatine building his ego.

There is a lot more to the Tusken Raider killings than that.

I just can't imagine little Anakin killing anyone in a rage.

Very good. Very good. Young Anakin would not kill anyone in a rage and we are supposed to know this and we do know this. See, there you go making it more difficult for yourself than it has to be.

Even Palpatine should be offset by day and day out brainwashing by the Jedi.

No, no, no. Not the Sith Master. Not the master manipulator.

Even more problematic still is the fact that Anakin seems LESS evil after he slaughters the tuskens then before he did. He doesn't really seem like a good guy until the whole Geonosis adventure.

Do I see a contradiction between those two sentences?

 

Scot,
Your very weak attempt at condescension isn't worth the effort and there isnt any substance anyway so good night.

 

hanbaby, relax. No condescension was intended. I was actually saying you are closer to seeing things than you make it seem and more than you realize.

 

Anakin Skywalker was already tainted by Palpatine's lies by the time AotC begins, although he is still basically a good person still. I do not believe we are meant to think of him as pure evil, at least not at this point. He gets his first taste of the dark side and its addictive power when he takes out the tuskens. And of course he had grown up since we last saw him at the end of the war with the Trade Federation. I know that I certainly have grown and changed from what I was ten years ago. But -as I pointed out to my mother when we were watching the movie today-he was already thinking along the lines of someone being in charge of the Republic and making them do what he felt they should do. I wonder where he got that idea from?.....

 

Good post, Jainalover.

 

Thank you, thank you (takes a bow)....I have had ample time to analyse the Star Wars mythos here lately and have written some articles about Anakin and the other major players in the films. If you like I could pm you the link to where my articles are at on the net. They are at a friend's site. Some of what I post here has been taken from my articles.

 

"Very good. Very good. Young Anakin would not kill anyone in a rage and we are supposed to know this and we do know this. See, there you go making it more difficult for yourself than it has to be."

But we aren't seeing any transition, its like the flick of a switch and Anakin goes from good to bad with no inbetween.

 

Really, because I saw the good and bad extremes of his character in AotC including a whole lot of confused emotion.