Saga The Force and its plans for the Chosen One, Skywalkers (and offspring!) n' Rey

So let's go with the Force has a will (which it does!). Or maybe sentience? (Ehhhh... okay). Or at least a plan. Okay, let's do that. The Force has a plan.

But plans change! Always in motion is the future and all that.

So there's a Great Imbalance in the Force. Them Priestesses said of Yoda "He is to teach one that will save the universe from a great imbalance. For this, the great gift will be his." Now, could be a quibble if they are referencing Luke or Anakin but things are out of balance.

So the Force balances it. Chosen One Anakin Skywalker. But he sorta messes up along the way. Sith are destroyed and that's the power of love but yikes!

So things go along their way, Luke returns the Jedi, things are looking up. But Luke is like his father and has a moment of weakness and things go sideways. Force back out of balance. Like the Lor San Tekka sez "Without the Jedi, there can be no balance in the Force." Ben is corrupted by darkness, Snoke, becomes Kylo Ren.

But like the Snoke said "Darkness rises and light to meet it." So there's Rey. And her awakening.

Now it's an "Awakening" but as Rey herself says "Something inside me, has always been there. And now it's awake and I'm afraid. I don't know what it is or what to do with it and I need help." So it has always been there and she has felt it, it just kicked into overdirve. Now the ways I sees it, always been there is right in her first scene whens she's pulling off incredible feats inside the abandoned Star Destroyer, it's like Luke bullseye womp rats or Anakin being the only human who can race pods. Awakening gets real when she escapes in the Falcon so Snoke and Kylo can sense it. Kylo trying to get into her mind basically pulls the door wide open.

So the Force has a plan. But she isn't a Skywalker, not related to the line. Kylo even straight up tells her that she's not a part of this story. She's nothing and comes from nothing but not to him. Different ways to read that line but let's go with he sees that she could be a part of the story, the Force's grand design, the balance. He sees it in a twisted, dark way but she's meant to be in it.

So she's The Force's backup. Plan B. Them Skywalkers be wobbly, they do the right thing, mostly, eventually, but wobbly. For her, the Force has always been there, she's always felt it, but the escape from Jakku is the awakening, Kylo pushes her full bore. So the Skywalker line, created by the Force, did give her the nudge to get her to the level where they are.

So the Force has a will, a plan, a sentience, and it has actions. But it has different ways to tackle it to bring balance. It keeps it's options open. Always in motion is the future and all that.

 

Oh, yah, also Skywalker's saber calling to Rey, there's another one there that could be the Force going she isn't a Skywalker but she can help the galaxy / be an heir to that line.

 

They are referencing Anakin. Anakin is able to retain his spirit in the Force because Yoda taught him how in the netherworld. Yoda taught him the "great gift" he was there to learn.

 

That's interesting, although I personally was never quite into the, I believe Legends-sourced, implication that Obi-Wan/Yoda taught Anakin at his moment of death how to become a Force Ghost, I just go with Anakin did it because he was the Chosen One. And also Yoda is still teaching Luke as a Force Ghost on Ach-To. And Rey also heard Yoda's voice when she touched the saber. Yoda definitely needed the "great gift" to keep teaching, though, that's a definite.

 

"This little scene where he burns his father's body, it wasn't originally in the script. But I decided it gave more closure in terms of Luke's relationship to his father, letting go of his father. Even though later on, as we get to the end of the movie, as he joins the Force, he was able to retain his original identity, it's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda, who learned how to do that: how to join the Force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his identity as he was when he died as Anakin Skywalker."
- Return of the Jedi DVD commentary



In the rough draft… Ben explains that… if "Vader becomes one with the dark side of the Force, he will lose all identity. If he turns to the good side, he will pass through the Netherworld" and in the revised rough draft, Yoda "will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force."

- Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays

 

As cited above by @Ancient Whills, the concept didn't come from Legends, but from Lucas himself.

Yoda taught Luke all he needed to learn before his death in ROTJ. And unlike TCW and ROTJ, TFA and TLJ didn't come from Lucas, so those examples were never what the priestesses were referring to. Anakin is the Chosen One, and the one who saved the universe from the great imbalance. It's all consistent with Lucas' vision of how Anakin was able to retain his spirit in the Force when he never learned how in his life.

Yes, including and more specifically, teaching the Chosen One how to retain his spirit in the netherworld of the Force when he died.

 

Tru dat. One can still apply notions of balance in the Force to the events that happen with Rey and Kylo and Luke on Ach-To. The light and dark conflict is still ongoing, it doesn't quite end at the death of Sidious. Yoda still has to tell Luke what do do and tell him how to deal with being a teacher and failure when Luke is in his 50s. Heck, even Ezra was hearing events from people who hadn't even been born yet when he entered the World Between Worlds.

 

No they aren't, they are referencing Luke. He does save the universe from a great imbalance - by saving Anakin (they don't mean he's the Chosen One). Yoda helping Anakin after death doesn't save the universe from imbalance - he already did that. Why would Yoda need to be given the gift for the sole reason he's to rescue Anakin after death? He's given the gift because he trains Luke.

 

That's a good point, if we really want to dissect the Priestesses line, let's go with they mean that he is teaching Luke. Luke saved the universe from a great imbalance by having the Chosen One destroy the Sith. It was a two-hander. But they need Yoda to learn the "great gift" so he can continue to teach Luke, and others, after he's already joined the Force. Yoda did tell Luke "No more training do you require, already know that which you need to." but he still had to show up on Ach-To anyway decades later to give Luke another lesson as a Force ghost.

Like being able to return from the Netherworld of the Force it is a gift for Yoda but it's not just a reward, which is an important distinction. It's not "Well, you taught Luke/Anakin so now you get eternal life" The Force still has plans for Yoda to help from beyond.

 

No, Luke didn't save the galaxy from an imbalance. Anakin did. He's the Chosen One, the one destined to bring balance (thus, saving the galaxy from the imbalance).

No, Anakin is the one who saves the universe from a great imbalance. He's the one who does it, not Luke. Anakin was destined to do it, it was foretold he would do it, and he did it. Luke was the catalyst, not the one responsible. Anymore than Han was just because he saved Luke's life.

Who said it did? Pay attention to what was stated: The priestesses are discussing why should he learn the "great gift" to which they say that he should learn it because he's to teach one that will save the universe from a great imbalance. Teach what? The "great gift". It's why he's there in the first place. This is why Anakin is able to appear at the end of ROTJ. Because Yoda helped him and taught him after Anakin died and went to the netherworld of the Force.

As seen in the OT, he doesn't need to learn the great gift to teach Luke. He managed to do so while he was alive. But he needed to learn the great gift so that he could teach Anakin how to retain his identity after death. Which is what happened. Again, this is corroborated by the movies, and Lucas himself.

 

Luke saving Anakin, saves the universe form imbalance. They both do.

So the Priestesses goal was to have Anakin saved as a force ghost after he already accomplished the goal? Just so he can chill?

It's an insurance policy so he could teach Luke even if he died.

 

Han saving Luke saves the universe from imbalance. See where that fallacious logic goes? Only one brings balance. Anakin. As it was foretold he would. Seriously, this shouldn't be up to debate.

What does the timing of the goal got to do with anything? They only said that he should learn the gift to teach someone. Who? The one who saved the galaxy from imbalance. Anakin. Wether it happens before or after he does it is not and never was relevant to the argument.

What insurance policy? These are being that are beyond time and space. What they say is what will happen and they know it will happen. They are not talking about Luke, they are talking about Anakin. It's only because Yoda learns the "great gift" that Anakin is able to appear in ROTJ, otherwise he wouldn't. That reference is the explanation for why and how it happened. It's that simple.

 

I'm pretty sure you could argue that Han saves the universe from imbalance. The difference is Luke is one removed, and, naturally, the further removed you get, the sillier the statement gets. It doesn't mean one person removed ins't saving the universe.

So their reasoning is essentially pointless? There is no rhyme or reason they would want Anakin saved after he already accomplished his goal.

Umm, no, the future is always in motion. They know what will probably happen, but there is still free will involved.

 

Removed from what/whom? The one who actually does it: Anakin. Again, it all comes down to him. Pretending it to be someone else is, again, ignoring what it's about for no reason whatsoever.

Not sure how you've reached that conclusion. And they never stated what they want and don't want. What they said is that Yoda is to learn X because he would teach someone who would do Y. We later discover that Anakin does Y. Therefore Yoda is to learn X to teach Anakin that. What we come to learn is that Anakin dies not knowing how to retain his identity and it's because Yoda learned how and was in the netherworld that he was able to help Anakin do it too. Hence his appearance at the end of ROTJ.

Nobody said free will is not involved. Again, they are beyond time and space. Everyone else isn't. So the future is always in motion to virtually everyone but them (and Qui-Gon, who also retained his identity, as he explains in the previous episode). They are in the future, in the present and in the past all at the same time. Just like Qui-Gon.

 

The person who essentially pushes him over the line can be seem to have partaken in 'saving the universe'.

Again, why would they wan him to learn that after he's saved the universe? Why would that b Yoda's purpose? He's already saved the universe. It seems completely arbitrary. Like saving Yoda so he could make Mon Mothma coffee after she had already won the war.

No, they aren't in a set future, otherwise there would be no free will and everything would be deterministic. The future can change, which is why they needed Yoda to learn the skill.

 

The guy who actually did it is the one who saves the galaxy from imbalance. Not the guy who helped save the guy who saved the galaxy.

Who said the "great gift" is necessary for balance? Nobody said it was. What was said is that Yoda should learn it because he was to teach the person who would bring balance. That happens to be Anakin and he did teach Anakin the great gift, hence his appearance at the end of ROTJ. Why would one want to preserve his spirit in the Force? Who knows? That question is not irrelevant to what was being discussed, but it's probably to have influence in the future. Had Yoda not learned it, Anakin wouldn't be able do it. Perhaps it was something that was going to be explored in Lucas' sequel trilogy.

You have no evidence to claim that it's arbitrary. It evidently isn't, otherwise Anakin wouldn't appear in ROTJ.

What? No. You being limited to the present (and the physical realm) and not knowing what the future is doesn't mean transcendent being such as the priestesses are not there or don't know it. They are in the future, present and past, all at the same time. Qui-Gon is as well:

"I exist where there is no future or past."

"It is happening right now. It has always been happening."

No. The priestesses said nothing about what the future might or might not be. What they said is what it's going to be. That he's to teach one that will save the universe from a great imbalance. Not the one who might or might not. And because he's going to do that, he needs to learn it. He learns it. And because of that, he teaches Anakin. Hence his spirit's appearance in ROTJ.

Again, simple.

 

So basically the Priestesses says that Yoda will teach (teach what? The gift i.e. to maintain one's consciousness after death. To who? To the one who will "save the universe from a great imbalance" (which character has been mentioned over and over again to fulfill some prophecy to bring "balance" to the Force? The Chosen One i.e. Anakin Skywalker. Therefore, Yoda has to learn how to maintain his consciousness after death so he can teach Anakin how to do it when he dies. They're not talking about him teaching this gift to the one who will save the guy who will save the the universe from great imbalance or one of his friends.

 

Interesting info. I have only watched few episodes of TCW and I wasn't aware about the draft.

And I think the "great gift" make it obvious that they mean Anakin.

Well, Yoda being taught "the great gift" and Anakin being able to learn it after death is because of his status as the chosen one.

 

Again I think this is extremely limited. Luke can be said to have saved the universe through his actions.

So then it is completely arbitary since they want Yoda to save Anakin after he has saved the universe.

Yes I realise this. It however doesn't mesh with the idea that that there is free will in the universe as per Lucas's statements.

 

That can be said about a lot of characters. However, only one character brings balance to the Force: Anakin. And Anakin does learn the "great gift" through Yoda.

Again, what they want is not known nor is it relevant. They only said that he's to learn the great gift because he's to teach Anakin. Anakin learning how to retain his spirit after death is not arbirtary either.

How exactly does it contradict the existence of free will? It doesn't. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Both can exist.

"The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil. The Force itself breaks into two sides: the living Force and a greater, cosmic Force. The living Force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive, and allows you to read other people's minds, etc. But the greater Force has to do with destiny. In working with the Force, you can find your destiny and you can choose to either follow it or not."

--George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

 

Thank you! Cosmic Force, that's what I was going for in the original post. The Cosmic Force's plan can shift depending on if the Skywalkers follow it or not. So Rey's awakening can be a fallback by the Cosmic Force to return balance. She's the In Case of Emergency Break Glass provision.

 

There is a future that is destined but that can be altered by the free will of individuals. The future is always in motion. Ergo there is no definite destination, only an approximation that will happen if the Force's will is followed.

You can't have absolute predestination with free will. It's an oxymoron.

 

Of course you can. Death, for example, is an absolute predestination for everyone.

Yoda doesn't know the future. He can foresee possible futures, but he doesn't know the actual future. The priestesses do, because they are transcendent. They are in the future, with Yoda in the present and in the past at the same time. Just like the Force. That Yoda will teach Anakin is a statement of fact, because it is a fact to them due to their transcendent nature. They know it. Yoda is the one limited by the bubble of his present reality. So to him, whatever the priestesses say is only a possible future. And he'll only realize that it was his future when he reaches that future point where he'll do what they said he would.

 

No, if the future is set completely that means all things are set. Therefore you only have the illusion of free will as pointed out by people such as Einstein and Spinoza. No matter Yoda's choices in the present he'll always make the inevitable decision set by the predestination, ergo no free will.