Saga The Force and its plans for the Chosen One, Skywalkers (and offspring!) n' Rey

These are comments I made elsewhere but I think they're worth repeating here, and elaborating on, regarding the prophecy.

The prophecy referred to "the one who would bring balance to the Force." The prophecy was never really about the Jedi and the Sith. Although both were used to facilitate it. Nor was it about one single person bringing balance to the Force. It was about everybody, the individual, the "one," FINDING the balance of the force within themselves. The Jedi and the Sith were more concerned with the larger, Cosmic Force, and often ignored the "here and now" of the Living Force. They couldn't see the tree because of the forest. When a Jedi or a Sith brought themselves to the Force because they only focused on the Light or the Dark the Force would become unbalanced. It's only when "one" brings themselves to the Force balanced and focused on all aspects can they unify with the force without making it become unbalanced. It's like a scale, if you want to tap into The Force you have to add a rock to both sides, or everything becomes unbalanced.

When one connects to the Force they "bring" themselves to it and join it. So the prophecy "the ONE (everyONE, the individual) who would BRING (connects, taps in, joins) BALANCE to the Force." We are now seeing that come true with Luke passing on this lesson to Rey. It will be the foundation of the new Jedi Order.

So the prophecy was true, from a certain point of view.

 

The future is only the future to you. It's also someone's present. You being limited to your place in time while others are not doesn't mean free will doesn't exist. Time is relative. Think of all the stars you are able to see in real time. You can only see their past state. You are never able to even see their present state. But they are in the present, which to you is the future.

Not correct. Balance is not about Jedi and Sith, yes, but it requires the destruction of the Sith because they are the cause of imbalance.

According to the prophecy, as introduced and established in the movies, the Chosen One is someone (not anyone or everyone) conceived by the midi-chlorians, destined to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force. Anakin is the Chosen One of the prophecy and he did fulfill it in ROTJ.

 

Also established in the film is that the prophecy may have been misread. If the Saga had stopped at 6 films then it would be a fairly open an shut case that Anakin was the chosen one, the prophecy was fulfilled and everybody lived happily ever after but with the sequel trilogy now in progress I think one could maybe see a larger interpretation of the prophecy that's bigger than just Anakin.

I probably should have added "not JUST" about the Jedi vs Sith, because they are certainly a part of it, heck the Sith could be the ones who started it. However one could easily say that the Jedi were also part of the imbalance because of how far the order had fallen. I just think the prophecy could work on a number of levels. It can refer specifically to Anakin and his actions but could be broader encompassing other aspects. Anakin as the chosen one brings balance but it falls to others like Luke, and now Rey to maintain it.

I like looking at things from a different direction, or a certain view. Makes for a lot of interesting discussion.

 

I mean, Disney themselves confirmed that the prophacy is true in one of their guide books which is why Snoke and Kylo aren't Sith .

And that not to mention how they refer to Anakin as the chosen one in their books (the first arc in the current Vader's comic was called "the chosen one").

The chosen one has completed his mission and fulfilled the prophacy and it was up to the livings to keep the peace which they failed in doing so.

 

Some characters at a certain point in time consider that possiblity, in regards to wether Anakin is the one or not, but obviously it is later established that there was no misreading whatsoever. The prophecy, per its contents, was fulfilled.

One doesn't exclude the other. The fact that the prophecy was fulfilled doesn't mean that time stopped and nothing happened after ROTJ. Still, if there is any contradiction made in post-ROTJ content, that's on them. Not on the actual content and meaning of the prophecy, which has been established from the beginning.

But the Order hasn't fallen in that sense. They aren't part of the imbalance, they are one of the few groups that actually try to fight all that contributes to it, until it's near extinction.

I don't argue that last point regarding Luke. At least originally, but now the whole story has been corrupted to no end.

My point is that what was established in the movies regarding the prophecy limits a lot of speculation that people make. Midi-Chlorian conception, for starters, a point that some people at Lucasfilm itself seem to have forgotten. This is not something subjective. It's the premiss that brings up the issue of the prophecy in the first place. The destruction of the Sith, too, who were the source of the imbalance. That's not to say others don't create or affect the circumstances that lead to the fulfillment of the prophecy (wether they know it or not). But the prophecy is regarding a single person, the chosen one, who has certain traits and is destined to do something. Anakin does fit the criteria and eventually did what was foretold, which confirms that he was the chosen one.

So do I. But there are things that have a large room for interpretation, others have a small one, and others have none. When we come to a point where we start to ignore content that the movies have specifically established, then the argument/theory/speculation starts losing it's validity and credibility. This is not addressed at you in particular. I'm talking in general.

 

I also go with the prophecy being correct, Anakin was the chosen one and the Sith were the cause of the imbalance, although I don't mind if people want to try to play around with interpretations of it. To be fair, we've never actually seen it specifically worded. Still, I do believe Anakin created balance by destroying the Sith but just cuz it was balanced doesn't mean it can't be unbalanced again but this time there's no Sith-y-ness involved. @Anslyder and @Gobi-1 stated what I agree with, that Luke was supposed to maintain the balance and kept focusing on the Cosmic Force but things got wonky with Ben and Snoke and Luke's moment of crisis. And so the Force is unbalanced 30 years after the fall of the Sith again, it's one of the 1st things that Lor San Tekka says (the most recent Poe Dameron comic also had him putting in some interesting musing on the Force). So Darkness Rises and Light to meet it which we see in Rey. (Luke is of the table, literally cut off from the Force so the Cosmic Force needed someone else)

The Chosen One did do his job, it's up to the next generation to keep it stable, which they are working on now. The Skywalker line has a tendency to fall into darkness so the Cosmic Force awakens Rey to be the outsider from a different POV to help Skywalker's son get it moving again. Inspiring hope in the galaxy is probably going to help the Light grow. Maybe it'll even turn Ben around. But probably not, he's a big jerk.

 

I like the idea that while the Skywalkers are important they have to be kept in check as well which is where Rey comes in. The Skywalkers, like the force itself, can become unbalanced.

 

The Force did create Anakin after all, it would have some safeguards on the Skywalker's implications on the Force. Or if Anakin was made by Darth Plagueis and created the Sith's own destruction, he and his offspring are still a big part of it. Luke joining the Force was, as Rey said, with peace and purpose so he's obviously reconnected to the Force in a big way. So we're seeing the Force fix itself again.

 

It's probably for the best that the Skywalker line returns to The Force, since it was created by it. That's why Kylo needs to die. End the line.

 

It's possible the Skywalker line has danced with the devil too much but on the flipside it's also hard to say that Luke and Anakin are really "dead" and the line is ended. I mean, Yoda's blowing up trees fer crissakes, he doesn't seem all that dead what with the Great Gift.

As Luke said about Kylo "No one's ever really gone." and also his final words "See you around, kid." There's definitely more for the Skywalkers to do.

That's probably why Rey is such a mindbender for Kylo, he literally tells her that she's not a part of this story. But the Force decided differently.

 

We never actually see the prophecy either. But we do know it exists and we know it says X and Y because the characters that are aware of it refer to it. They don't know who the Chosen One is, but they believe it to be Anakin because at least he fits the characteristics/requirements mentioned in it.

How is Rey automatically 'the light' and not 'more darkness'? What makes Rey 'the light' and not someone else? Wasn't Rey strong in the Force from the beginning? If so, what exactly has 'awaken'? And how is there a tendency in the Skywalker line to fall when only 2/5 of them actually fell?

Speaking of von Sydow's character, he's also the one who establishes the need of the Jedi, IIRC. But that was ignored altogether considering that TLJ completely destroyed the very concept of the Jedi and what they are about (in more ways than one).

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This.

 

Rey always has had the Force but there is specifically an "awakening" that Snoke and Kylo sense after she helps Finn and BB-8 leave Jakku. Kylo trying to rip the map from her mind enhanced and opened her connection to the Force more as well. She even says herself "Something inside me has always been there but now it's awake and I'm afraid and I need help." So Rey, like everyone, is with the Force, it has always been there and on her escape from Jakku it took a jump which was sensed by the darksiders.

there could be others but aside from the kid with the broom, we've only seen Rey as the one who has awoken for the light. She helped Luke (he reconnects with the Force and the Rebellion is reborn and the spark of hope returns to the galaxy) and he bestowed her an official Jedi as one his final acts to continue the Jedi.

As for her not being "more darkness", her actions towards people are good and speak for themselves. also Snoke says "Darkness rises and light to meet it", which is pretty explicitly referring towards Rey. She went straight to the dark on Ach-To for answers about her parents but found nothing and when she went to Kylo, it was she saw that he would turn. Her actions weren't borne from the dark side and when Kylo ask her to join him, she rejects him.

The Skywalker line has a tendency towards darkness with Kylo, Anakin and Luke has his moments of darkness as well, the cave, his attack on Vader (which may have been borne of good intentions to save his sister but Anakin did what he did to try to save Padme) and his moment of weakness with Ben (once again, he thinks he can save people for a moment). Not all of them fall and Luke and Anakin come back to the light (Luke has had moments of struggle with the dark side, Anakin was in it for a few decades). But it's there and it has happened and bad things are a result.

 

That's still a tendency.

Which is why the person who developed the theory of relativity was a determinist. If time is always happening, and your future is already happening, your free will in the present is only an illusion. No matter what you do you will always make the same decision in order to reach the same conclusion.

 

That doesn't make much sense. What exactly has awakened? The connection is still the same, it wasn't developed or enhanced in any way.

But light and dark are accessible to everyone. Nobody is automatically immune to the latter by chance.

When did that happen?

Until they don't. Things can change. Unless the argument is that she'll always be good and never be tempted, because no matter what, she's on the Light.

No argument there. I'm arguing against the contrived convenience of their creative choices.

That's not a tendency towards darkness. There's a tendency to struggle, but that applies to literally everyone. So even then there's nothing specific to the Skywalkers.

And Luke never fell. He was tempted once, but recognized his mistake in time and chose the greater path. Well, until TLJ that is, where he was made to completely forget or ignore his past inner journey, story and growth.

It's in everyone, not just the Skywalkers. And it's a struggle, not a tendency to fall.

It's not an illusion. It's a requirement for your decisions and actions that will dictate the future, that will happen no matter what, that you don't have access to due to your reality of being tied to the present. Your future is not already happening to you, yet it still exists. It can be already happening (or have already happened) to someone else. Someone transcendent, which the Priestesses are.

 

I never said or is it implied that Rey is immune to the dark but she is representing the light side, for now. Things could change but right now she's working for the light. She's helping Luke reconnect with the Force and believed she could turn Kylo to the light. She was way wrong on that point but she wasn't going to him to go toward the dark side.

Rey was awakened in the Force, it's said by Snoke and Kylo that they sense it. Her connection has been enhanced and strengthened since it happens. She isn't exactly pulling lightsabers or Jedi mind tricks on Jakku, all stuff that she does after she's been awakened and blocked Kylo's attempt to get the island from her mind.

Luke reconnects with the Force when he calls out to Leia. He then is connected with the Force and his actions on Crait light the spark (the scene with the kids where they relate legends of Luke Skywalker). And he very specifically says "I will not be the last Jedi" and then Rey is shown lifting rocks. He said that he isn't the last Jedi. Rey is now. He graduated her to Jedi on the spot without her there. There is absolutely zero chance he is talking about someone else, he is specifically referencing her. Even Klyo knows he's talking about her because his very next line is "I'll destroy her"

Luke has struggled with the dark but he overcomes it. Probably the only movie where that doesn't happen for him in A New Hope but in Empire, Jedi and Last Jedi, he has moments of darkness which he overcomes. But it is in him and Skywalkers have fallen to the dark side so if he brushes close to the dark side, it's not something that he has never done before.

 

If your future is already set then, by definition, you don't have the free will to change it. You're following your predestination, which is why people like Albert Einstein didn't believe in free will. That's why in SW the future is always in motion, because there is free will.

 

But the whole notion of a "rising light to meet the dark" relies on the assumption that said light is, well, light. And not a possible light.

But the Force was already with her from the beginning. Nothing changed in that regard. She did nothing extraordinary that changed her strength or connection to it. The bad guys just randomly say that there was an "awakening".

How? Why? There was nothing that justifies or explains that enhancement. It's just random.

Which is exactly the problem I referred to when I talked about how the concept of the Jedi and what they are about was destroyed/made meaningless.

The only actual moment of darkness in the OT was in ROTJ, when Vader threatened Leia. But the whole point of that, was that he realized what was happening and chose to do the right thing. To follow the Jedi way.

In Empire, he lets fear affects his decisions (which could have dark consequences) but there were no 'dark' moments.

It's in everyone, Skywalker or not. And it's precisely because he almost fell once and realized what was going on that he stopped, learned from it and should never do it again. Otherwise it's going against what was established and what defined his character and maturity. It means he didn't learn anything.

Again, the future is always in motion to normal beings. Beings that are limited to the present reality that they are in. Transcendent beings are not. You, your existence, your decisions, your actions, your life, your free will (that informed your actions and defines your future) have happened, are happening and will be happening to them. They are not an illusion.

You're arguing the rules that limit your reality to beings that are not limited to it. Apples and oranges.

 

They exist in the same spacetime they can just move through time differently. If time were truly set then our future wouldn't be in motion. Visions would be definite.

 

That's my theory that Rey's awakening in the Force is a move by the Force, same way the Force made Anakin. It's a move by the Force to have her help the Skywalker line, with Luke disconnected from the Force and Ben turning dark. Leia is looking for Luke and Rey is the way that they find him.

As for Luke struggling, I find his arc in Last Jedi to be sympathetic, he's trying to live up to the Legend but he's human and he made a mistake so he's doing penace for it. And then he connects with the Force again because Rey shows up. which in turn saves the Rebellion and lights the spark of hope again, and the Jedi continue again.

 

Of course it was. The problem is that the Force doesn't have to stay balanced; the balance isn't permanent. So we effectively end up with a succession of "chosen ones".

No. The balance of the Force as discussed in the prophecy isn't internal to a person. It's a condition of the Force as a whole. You remove the imbalance by dealing with the factor which is causing it. Navel-gazing accomplishes nothing in this regard.

There is absolutely no canonical evidence that Jedi behavior unbalanced the Force. The cause of the imbalance is consistently said to be Sith/darksiders. It is only internet forums that implicate the Jedi in this.

TFA and TLJ are in agreement on this. By the end of TLJ Luke is saying he will not be the last Jedi; he's changed his mind. Both films support the need for the Jedi.

 

What exactly changed Luke's mind? He was the last of them and ended up dying without passing on what he has learned. And if TLJ supports the need for the Jedi, why did it spend the whole time trashing what they were about and stood for through Luke's ramblings? Heck, Luke's argument isn't even consistent in and on itself. He says the Jedi need to end, that they are the source of all the troubles in the galaxy (?!), yet he's guarding some Jedi books? Why? And the books turned out to be pointless too. Then he decides to destroy them and a tree and complains when it actually happens?! The whole thing is a well of contradictions...

 

Quite.

All we can be truly certain what actually makes sense and works is what Lucas says in the movies and TCW. We can even look to his own comments outside the fiction for support.

Trying to tie anything from post-Lucas together into his story is an entirely different matter.

Lucas himself says in the movies and outside the movies that the Rule of Two was around for thousands of years by the time TPM happened. The new canon says that Sidious and Vader were the culmination of the line of Bane and the Rule of Two from one thousand years previously AFTER the Sith had vanished. Darth Bane set it up after the Sith were destroying themselves and lost power.

So when something extremely simply like timing of the Rule of Two doesn't fit Lucas story
then how are they going to handle balance of the Force?

A number of people seem to think evil existing puts the Force out of balance which makes no sense. The Sith's evil alone was around for thousands of years and it never went out of balance and there was no Chosen One brought forth like Anakin to restore the balance.

Past situations in reference to Jedi vs Sith where there were natural shifts in balance could be corrected. My interpretation is along the lines of shifts in balance are one thing but out of balance is another thing.

The ST's darkness rises and light to meet it indicates a more natural and normal balance. What happened with Sidious is that he threw the scales completely out. Anakin's choice was to restore balance which happened to be brought about by darkness not light.

Anakin is not simply a representative of the Light side as Rey seems to be. Darkness holds no sway over Rey. She seems to have no actual choices to make she just does things for the Light while Anakin clearly had the ability to choose between Light and Dark. He could do both and was the balancer.

I don't know if they are thinking this way since the story changes with whoever is in charge of each movie but that at present is how it can be drawn out.

 

Rey did go to the dark in Ach-To to look for her parents, which is a trait that both Luke and Anakin had which was they went to darkness to try to save loved ones. One could quibble that Rey was entirely selfish looking for answers about her parents from the dark but I don't think that, she was trying to get a happy ending for all by reuniting with them.

 

This interesting way of seeing it and I pretty much agree with the whole post.

I don't think the balance in such a bad state in ST like it was in OT and PT that needed it a chosen one. So, you are into something and I don't agree with people who say that ST made the prophacy pointless (the galaxy in new canon enjoyed peace far longer than it did in legends and the sith are still destroyed) because it was never about riding the galaxy of evil forever which is pretty unrealistic.