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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit A/V The Force Awakens and the EU [TAGGED spoilers.]

Discussion in 'Literature' started by TypoCelchu, Oct 30, 2012.

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  1. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    No, but I might now.
     
  2. FatSmel

    FatSmel Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 2012
    lol now you're thinking too deeply
    who knows why George Lucas does anything?
    Like Jeff mentioned, that he said ok to Chewies death in NJO means absolutely nothing when it comes to whether or not he will appear in the new movie. And that is also assuming that GL has any say in such a decision anymore.
     
  3. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Like I said, however, if they throw out EU 1.0 for the specific purpose of liberating future film writers to be able to tell the best story they can, without having their hands tied by books that -- again, for the very same reason as they'd be throwing the current ones out: because the books don't sell remotely in as high numbers as the audiovisual market -- then they aren't then going to go and start letting books tie future spin-off scriptwriters hands again.

    As I said, back in the end of the 1980s, nobody ever thought there'd be another Star Wars film, video games didn't exist the way they do now, the funding wasn't there for an animated television show, and kids were still reading books in a proportionally much higher market share for its time. That situation does not compare to today when Disney plan to release spin-offs after Episode 9, which may have their own spin-off merchandise like direct tie-novels, but the TCW or TOR novels are hardly representative of the same form of EU world building that happened historically, and are much more localised in setting, and have been written so that they don't get in the way of anything TCW or TOR has been planning for future arcs.

    Like Lucas not letting anyone write about Yoda, there's a reason they won't do any novels about Satele or Vitiate all the while BioWare still want to leave their options open for future TOR additions. So Wrath of Darth Maul, Lock Down, Annihilation, etc, are pretty much as creative as you're likely to get in a future primarily ongoing film-driven franchise where the ongoing adventures of Owen Skywalker aren't told in books or other EU modes of storytelling but in future spin-offs.
    I actually feel that diagram suggests the video game market is the one to watch out for.

    When you consider that the toy and book markets are the only ones that have been around from Day 1, they certainly show that the Marvels and Splinters of the Minds Eyes are insignificant next to the power of Luke Skywalker action figures, but the fact the video game market has only been around a fraction of that same time, having only blossomed late 1990s, then it has exploded very quickly, in a very short period of time.

    Throw in how quickly children today are playing on their parents' Xboxes rather than playing with action figures, and it'll actually be interesting to see quite what happens when Episode 7 does come out, as aside from the preschooler market, there aren't that many older kids who actually play with toys anymore, with a lot of the sales just coming from adults who collect them these days.

    LucasArts just need to get their act together and remember how to make decent games.
     
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    [​IMG]

    Seriously, there's no shortage of reason for pessimism or optimism, but terming either view or part of as "silly" isn't likely to make for a productive discussion.

    In corporate terms, I expect the EU to get scrapped or, best case scenario, blasted a la DC's new 52 - it'll be something I have little to zero interest. Corporate strategy is based around quarterly returns, so primarily short-term. In creative respect this will likely render whatever passes for the SW EU as akin to superheroes, bigger and badder shocks piled upon another with little regard to overall cohesion or coherence. Since the majority of fans, despite internet declarations to the contrary, will not stop buying, the stuff will still sell and make a profit.

    The outside bet is that, in corporate terms, Disney do not wish to throw away any income stream, no matter how small, so will seek to take money from the old, existing EU products while pushing it forward. It's certainly possible and, if they did it, would probably give them greater revenue over time but the corporate structure suggests this is unlikely.

    My own inclination is to suspect Abrams has a killer curveball up his sleeve, as he did on Trek, that does enable Disney and us to have our cake and eat it! What that is, I have no idea. What I do know is, if so, it will be subject to massive security so as to not be leaked and when we watch Ep 7, we'll get our heads kicked in by it!
     
  5. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Hey guys, well at least we're better than 'Other'.
     
  6. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Anything is better than Other and its 3PO underwear.
     
  7. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Don't forget the crotch tape.
     
    Dawud786 likes this.
  8. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    This conversation has taken a weird turn.
     
  9. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Ding ding ding! Give the man a cigar! Or at least a high-quality death stick.
     
  10. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    I had already erased that image from my mind.

    Thank you for reminding me again. That was most kind of you.
     
  11. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I enjoy watching an internet punch-up as much as anyone but I think a fair bit of both Jeff and Quest so don't really want them to keep taking chunks out of each other!
     
  12. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2009
    This thread is a little too serious and a little too "Can't unsee". Time for something a little different.





    Thrawn: The Musical!

    [​IMG]
     
  13. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Don't they all?
     
  14. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    I feel i should clarify that I wasn't calling anyone's specific view here "silly"- Jeff will most likely be right about some of the things he's arguing.

    That "silly" comment was more directed to the implicit notion in general from many that the people behind the films will make arbitrary decisions, see the EU as a burden (not an asset) and that somehow these storytellers are more incompetent than a five year old with a head injury when confronted with the apparently-soul-terror-inducing sight of existing story content.

    "There's a book that might help me tell the story?"
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    If a cutoff wouldn't be compatible with the story, then the discussion over the merits of a cutoff vs full reboot are irrelevant. Your comments are dependent on the premise of a cutoff being an actuality. I was merely following up on your suggestion.


    Do you really think there's not a likely possibility that Lucas mined at least some EU when coming up with his outline?

    He's outright referenced the EU as material to mine in the announcement interviews. He's integrated multiple EU content into TCW (obviously the level of success in term of continuity can be argued) including an outright adaptation of a Republic comic book. Lucas's MO has pretty much been "I'll take this character/element and put my spin on it".


    Now, as I stated earlier- I don't expect the ST to be fully EU compatible. LOTF, FOTJ and beyond are goners for certain. The NJO is on unstable ground and while Legacy might initially survive, it'll be dodging continuity bullets for the next decade.

    What I am saying, however, is that it is a mistake to assume it'll be fully incompatible as much as it would be to assume it will be fully compatible. At least at this juncture. We don't know what approach Lucas and the filmmakers are going to take.

    Lucas's outline might be broad enough to allow for many possibilities, it might not be. The filmmakers may want to include EU elements in there (it's a safe bet some of them will have read at least some post-ROTJ content, and will almost certainly have gone over whatever prep reference Pablo provided them, in addition to the stack of Essential Guides we know Lucas and co used on TCW), they might not.

    And JJ is no stranger to dealing with juggling both primary canon backstory and secondary media canon (see the multimedia (and even non-media) approaches to Lost, Cloverfield and to a lesser degree) Star Trek).
     
  15. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Abrams and Arndt have to juggle with the biggest soul-terror-inducing problem of them all anyway: the ever-changing vision of George Han-Didn't-Shoot-First Lucas. :p

    As for LOTF and beyond? Although I fully agree that, if the EU was to be preserved, that they'd be the stories directly in the firing line, I actually also feel they'd be more likely to be massively retconned than jettisoned outright, as Denning's obsession with killing people off is helpful when it comes to staging a story with new characters and a more centred cast.

    Three Solo kids? Too many for a film. Jaina alone? Much easier.

    However, I wouldn't be majorly shocked if they decided to throw out LOTF and make Ben be born earlier, which obviously bulldozes through a lot of the NJO and Mara's pregnancy timeline, but *shrug* Not like the prequels didn't do the same thing by making Obi-Wan twenty years younger than everyone had previously thought. You can still enjoy the stories even if you have to apply a bit more suspension of disbelief about how quickly someone grew up or whatever.

    Heck, look at Ahsoka. That girl does not look nor act remotely close to her stated age, and has aged more equivalent to the 5 years that the show us been running than the 2-and-whatever years that have passed on screen.
    If Disney wish to adapt TTT, that is how they must do it.
    Look on the bright side, nobody's connected Disney to Duros yet.
     
  16. MillionthVoice

    MillionthVoice Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 28, 2013
    We know that GL attends the story conferences and definitely has a say there. The question is, does Leland Chee attend (or Hidalgo), and how heavy weighs his opinion against the rest of the folks there. We know that JJ took the job because he liked the story that Ardnt wrote from GL's outline. It's not going to stray infinitely far away from that.
     
  17. GunganSlayer

    GunganSlayer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2013
    As both a writer and filmmaker, and I'd be thrilled to have the opportunity that Arndt has to write the screenplay for the next Star Wars film. I'd also be thrilled to have at my disposal such a rich history of this universe, with countless characters, planets, vehicles, creatures and more. I'd be honored to contribute to the ongoing history of the galaxy, while at the same time respecting and learning what has come before, and that includes materials that many writers and comic book artists have contributed to the Star Wars canon for decades. I for one would hate for another writer to come in 20 years and make an Episode VXI that basically invalidates my own contribution. Even if I didn't know much at all about the EU, Lucasfilm has employees whose specific job is inform and advise others about the EU. One could also spend a few hours on wikipedia and catch up; it's not that hard.

    I do see both sides of the argument, and I'm already sadly expecting that the EU will be destroyed, but I again insist it is very easy to strike a balance for everyone involved. I still fail to see how the Expanded Universe limits creativity or keeps the ST writers "hands tied down." All you have to do is keep a few key characters (Jaina, Ben, etc ---and they don't even necessarily have to be the main stars of the film, either) and maybe drop a line of dialogue or two if some explanation is needed for something (passing mention of Luke's wife's death, Han still sad that Chewie is dead, etc). That's it, that's almost all you need. A few of you are making it out that if the EU is to be intact that Episode VII will spend the entire time in exposition and retelling the audience what happen after ROTJ, and that's obviously absurd and unneeded. Even if Disney ignores the EU, they're still not to going to take the entire film explaining what happen in their "new" decades after ROTJ. If anything, it will again be a few simple lines of dialogue and that's it. Which is exactly what they can do using the already per-established canon.


    Anyways, Rinzler just tweeted earlier today:

    https://twitter.com/jwrinzler/status/312204190942367744


    This could be some big news.
     
  18. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2009
    If it's the same big news Randy has been hyping, it could mean very good for Dark Horse.

    ...not raising any hopes or anything.
     
  19. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Note that Rinzler's projects typically have nothing to do with the EU.
     
  20. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Looks like First Assault has been put on the chopping block as well. Admittedly, I totally forgot about this game, but looking at the footage makes me feel... i dunno... like there was another whole Battlefront III that just came and went.:(

    (I'm including this in this thread because... y'know... Disney.)
     
  21. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    So First Assault is out now too? o_O

    Maybe I shouldn't have started speculating about the prospect of Disney slowing things down for the next two years so that the public forget about how bad franchise merchandise normally is.
     
  22. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 22, 2010
    This is the first I'm even hearing of First Assault. Needless to say, I won't miss it, but am still annoyed so many things are being cancelled. Guess there's not much hope for that Obsidian Dark Times game after all, at least until 2017 or so.
     
  23. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Given the money and resources LucasArts have already invested in both this and 1313, I'm now starting to suspect they might be planning to just take the engines they've now built and reuse them for EP7 tie-ins.

    Not like it'd be hard to take something like 1313 and change the story, as all the basic Coruscant architecture and physics will be exactly the same, so all it takes is some new dialogue and cutscenes.
     
  24. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I remember when they registered a bunch of First Assault domain names, and zip since then. No big loss.
     
  25. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    What was "First Assault?"
     
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