Lit A/V The Force Awakens and the EU [TAGGED spoilers.]

While you could certainly argue (I argue it myself) that TCW has been disgustingly disrespectful to the work that came before it, and has caused some discrepancies along the way, to say that TCW destroyed the old CW continuity, or is the catalyst for the destruction of canon as a whole, is more than a little dramatic.

The CW project did a much better job at providing a chronological overview of the war, but at the same time it's not like it ever claimed that's all that happened in the war. It doesn't have to entirely be one way or the other.

 

I follow Chee's stance, as he is the keeper of continuity and has more influence over the fate of the canon than generally anyone in the company. Your opinion certainly has some validity given Lucas' statements from time to time, but it is not the official stance, it is only just that, an opinion. If Chee says most post ROTJ stories didn't happen, or none of the old TCW material happened, or if he's fired and someone else is put in charge of publishing continuity and says that, then that's what we'll have to live with, and what publishers will largely push for from this point onward.

Until then, any statement that all old TCW material is non-canon is pure conjecture and opinion just as much as any statement that the new TCW series or the Prequels never happened. An opinion with some backing, yes, but still not the final statement, and it is unlikely to be so in the end. There will be divided opinions among those that write source book material (timeline inconsistencies, attempts to merge new and old planet stories, lack of knowledge about EU in some material), but that's how it will generally be managed in most sourcebooks.

I also admit that the ST could be an entirely new game and quickly change everything forever, but no one truly knows yet. Wait and see.

 

Those are not the only inconsistencies. There are numerous things that are blatant contradictions.

 

What is the difference between being disgustingly disrespectful to canon and destroying it?

Certain things can be retconned with a logical explanation. Others cannot. A character can't die twice, like Even Piell and Adi Gallia.

 

Easy, you get better.

 

Again, I understand what the official stance. However, if the official stance defies logic, I don't have to accept it. Leland Chee can say old material is canon all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that ANY part of any EU can be overridden by the movies or TV show. If can be overridden freely, in what sense is it canon?

No one truly knows is the ST will change this, as you say, but all logic evidence point towards this being the case. If the EU is acknowledged in the ST, I will be shocked.

 

Plus, Leland Chee isn't gonna come out and say that a large group of novels and comics aren't canon, that would hurt Lucasfilm's bottom line.

 

I could make continuous arguments about what constitutes for a logical and believable story, a coherent narrative, ect. ect. ect. But I think at heart we both agree that many of the contradictions have been careless, needless, and avoidable. And unfortunately more may be inevitable.

I simply ask that those who wish to segregate so many events from their personal canon at least try to respect those of us who do not wish to do so, and realize that even if it seems like the writing is on the wall, we don't know for sure yet. I actually do believe that we'll have a pretty clear answer eventually as well, whether from Chee, or from someone of equal authority. And darn it, I'll get that statement from whoever is in charge personally if I must.

 

Let me put this way. Say they publish a book all about Ahsoka fighting in the NJO and then the TCW kills her off. Leland Chee says the book is still canon somehow. Would you say, oh I guess the book is still canon, even though the two fictional universes described are mutually incompatible?

 

I hope so. I really hope all the Clone Wars EU is kept intact.

Personally, I'm not trying to segregate anything. I just can't do the mental gymnastics required to make it all make sense. If there's a way, I'd love to hear it.

EDIT: My original point for bringing it up was that Lucasfilm did not consider themselves beholden to previous canon. Obviously, they don't even check to see if what they write contradicts canon.

And if we have to do some insane retconning to keep the NJO in continuity, personally I'd rather consider them separate. That's just my preference, though.

 

A very large difference. If a canon discrepancy, even one as large as a character dying twice was all it took to fundamentally destroy Star Wars canon, it would have been dead in the water over a decade ago. The large body of Star Wars fiction is simply too vast to let small elements destroy the entire thing.

I will add that certain Star Wars characters died twice before TCW ever did it. Some are explained with clever retcons, others are mind numbingly stupid. Whatever the result, you move on and keep the ship floating, or you let that one thing ruin it all for you. Obviously I can't tell you which one to pick, but I find the former much more productive, and certainly more fun. Granted, perhaps the greatest appeal of the Star Wars universe, one that sets it apart from other shared universes, is the generally concise continuity; I can understand how such a blatant breach in that continuity can make it harder care one way or another about anything that happens in the universe. I prefer to view all Star Wars works as a sort of fictional historical account; the events that take place in them all "happen", but some of the finer details can be changed, or vary based on point of view.

Obviously, I disapprove of TCW disregarding canon. Whether Lucas chooses to admit it or not, the EU is an enormous part of Star Wars. The CW project, in more ways than one, laid the groundwork for everything TCW is doing, and the TCW mindset, that they can contradict whatever they want because it's a higher level of canon, is in my opinion the worst way you can possibly write in a shared universe. Nonetheless, I find the absolutist viewpoint concerning TCW/CW that I see more and more of absolutely ridiculous. There's absolutely no reason why something like Adi Gallia dying early should invalidate the whole of the CW project. The events that you see in both TCW and the CW comics could easily happen alongside each other in a three year period of time. Sure, events in the CW comics are mentioned in the Dark Lord trilogy, but TCW events aren't. That's hardly sufficient proof that one must have happened and the other didn't.

I feel like those who are most loud about the CW multimedia project and TCW being completely incompatible are the ones who haven't seen TCW and only assume a king-size continuity error happens every episode, or the ones who haven't read any of the CW stuff and just assume TCW is here to replace everything (most of the LACW guys). To that, all I can really say is to reiterate that it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Simple. The majority of CW comics take place in the first year and a half of the war or so. From there, Anakin is knighted, and the majority of TCW takes place in the latter half of the war. The very last issues of Republic take place just before Labyrinth of Evil. The major red herring in that sequence of events is Ventress; we're gonna have to wait to see what they do with her to see if her appearance in Obsession can even remotely make sense.

Something could very well change in the last season of TCW that completely puts a Death Star to Labyrinth of Evil. For now, all we can do is hope that doesn't happen.

 

Like I said, I haven't read these books in a long time. I'm far from from an expert and I'm partly just going off people complaining about TCW continuity. I've only seen the most recent 3 seasons myself.

However, as you say TCW "disregards canon". Now, it does this in a way where you can keep the broad strokes of the plot intact, as you say. However, in my opinion, for the ST(which was my original point) , this will be much more unlikely. Hypothetically, If the ST establishes that Luke or Leia have different children, then I don't see how both time lines can fit. They're pretty huge parts of the post ROTJ EU. And I haven't even read anything after the NJO, from what I understand, that would make it even more difficult.

 

There's not a chance that's happening, IMO.

 

You're speaking to a preacher. But that's beside the point. Moving on

 

This isn't the place to discuss such matters, obviously. But an argument from authority is meaningless.

 

I think this was more meant along the lines of "you don't want to get me started, boy"

 

Most likely. I'd love to discuss it, but I don't think the mods would look too kindly on that.

 

There's a thread in the Senate for such purposes. Incidentally, there's also a thread for clone wars continuity discussion

 

Ha, my bad. I just made an offhand comment about TCW and the whole thread got derailed.

 

If something didn't contradict the intent of the original work, then a retcon isn't needed.

We never saw the moon crash on him (I forgot, but do we even know if the moon collided into that part of the planet?). And if it was Sith who kidnapped Chewbacca, they could have stripped him of the Force, so the Jedi would think he's dead.

Like I said, did Bantam destroy the EU when they contradicted the "Glove of Darth Vader" series and ignored the Marvel comics? No.

The EU was preserved and even better integrated with TCW (with some exceptions, as you've pointed). I don't see why they would abandon this approach for ST. It also wouldn't make any business sense either.

 

Because they would have to go out of their way to stay true to the EU. All evidence indicates they won't do that.

I don't see how the EU is preserved and better integrated by TCW. Because it uses EU characters? But if the usage of these characters contradicts the EU, doesn't that have the opposite effect?

 

Am I the only one who finds this conversation exhausting lately?

 

Well, until we get some sort of confirmation one way or the other, what else is there to talk about in this thread?

 

To me, all evidence points to that they will.

We'll see, it's just a matter of time.

*Ahem*