A/V THE FORCE AWAKENS - The Official Movie Discussion Thread

I still think they should have somewhat taken advantage of Leia's position in the novel regarding her political place in the galaxy and forged an actual arc from that in the film. It was a huge missed opportunity in the movie and made the New Republic seem like a nonentity.

 

Double post.

 

Thread relevant:

 

Coming soon - Arousal of the Dark Side....

 

Oh...my...no.

 

I almost posted it in the Reylo thread but couldn't bring myself to do so.

EDIT: Wait, someone already did that. At least I didn't stir the pot!

 

Why? Just why?

 

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

 

Rey's outfit is pretty great, it can look like scavenger rags but with the right flick of the wind she looks like an epic Jedi.

 

hay folks, Force Awakens is now on Netflix Canada. I kind of love the description on here (from the prosaic / vaguely haikau mention of the "the orphan" and how Fisher and Ford are listed in the secondary description but not Hamill so it's a surprise for total noobs). And it's 5 gold stars because goddamn straight I rated it 5 outta 5

 

from http://daztibbles.deviantart.com/

 

Seeing that once again makes me wish that the main Star Wars comic was an arc to arc trilogy era anthology series. To be fair, we kind of get it with one-shots of Old Obi-Wan every six issues or so. But I want more!

 

Ackbar arc, Wedge arc, Mon Mothma arc, Hoth arc, and so much more.

 

I was thinking more it jumps between trilogies each arc so we get respective Big Three stories in each era, a fall of the republic era with Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme, civil war era with Luke, Leia and Han and a Poe, Finn and Rey in the First Order era. But it's been pretty much confirmed, due to where episode VIII starts, that we won't see any Poe, Finn and Rey content until probably after episode VIII is released.

 

Well, I read Hulk's review. I agreed with many of the points but disagreed heavily with most of his critiques on characterization.

To me, this part of the review sums up a lot of my negative feelings for The Force Awakens:
TO HULK, IT JUST MAKES YOU REALIZE A KEY DIFFERENCE: THE PREQUELS WERE TERRIBLY DIRECTED MOVIES, FLAT AND LIFELESS, CLUNKY BEYOND BELIEF... BUT THEY AT LEAST HAD SOME KIND OF WEIRD FUNCTIONAL FOUNDATION THAT MADE SENSE. MEANWHILE, THE FORCE AWAKENS IS "GOOD DIRECTION," BUT ON A STORY FUNCTION LEVEL, IT'S AS TONE DEAF TO HULK AS "NOW, THIS IS POD RACING!"

I have never given my complete opinion of The Force Awakens. I shall do so now.

So, I watched TFA wanting to enjoy the movie. Small plot inconsistences or failures to explain every single thing were not going to deter me from enjoying that movie. I’m not the type of person who ever complained about the fact that Tarkin in ANH doesn’t send a a crap load of TIEs to blast the 36 Rebel X wings sent against the Death Star out of space; I was content with the EU’s explanation that he was too arrogant to because it fit his characterization as presented in the movie. I never complained never complained about Vader’s logic in executing Ozzel in ESB or why AT ATs are needed. Various Expanded Universe technical reasons were sufficient for me and they were minor enough that I didn’t mind that they weren’t presented within the movies themselves. I say all this to establish that though I’m aware that there are inconsistencies within the original six films I do not usually hold Star Wars movies to such a high standard that it ruins my enjoyment when I see them.

The Force Awakens has more than just easily overlooked inconsistencies though. As Hulk points out, it has moments that just make you say, “What? Where was that even foreshadowed, and where did it come from?” Additionally, the film relies on incredible coincidences in a way that the original films never had to, it lacks sufficient world building, it fosters political ideas that under any under circumstances would be unpalatable, and it relied way too much on being a complete and total derivative of A New Hope mixed with a little Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi while not understanding what any of those films did right. Let’s start this review/analysis by focusing coincidence; specifically we’ll focus on plots with goal obtained by coincidence and plots with goals obtained by a mixture of intent and coincidence but wherein coincidence is mostly used as plot “spice” and not as the primary method of obtaining a goal.

We all experience coincidences in our everyday life. Most coincidences are mundane and we never notice them. Some our quirky and entertain us, and some coincidences are profound and change our lives. Sometimes a series of coincidences that appear to contain a theme we were never even looking for makes the hair on the back of our necks stand up, gets us to consider the more spiritual and mystical aspects of life and…well. The point is that coincidence makes up a good portion of our daily lives. A story teller can almost be forgiven if he or she comes to believe that it is acceptable to have coincidences drive a plot but he or she would be wrong; it is only acceptable if coincidence itself is the prime subject material or an important secondary subject of the story. A good example of this would be a movie like Signs or Pulp Fiction in which the coincidences of life plays large part of the story. For most stories, reliance on coincidence shows a weakness of plot.

Star Wars is a movie where coincidence plays a role but it definitely is not a focused upon primary role nor is it a close important secondary role. It is used mostly as spice and at least once as an important element that makes you consider spirituality if you’re inclined to think about such things. The following important coincidences can be found in the first six Star Wars films and are listed in chronological order:

Qui Gon and Obi Wan meeting Jar Jar on Naboo

Qui Gon and Obi Wan running into Anakin on Tatooine

Dexter knowing what a Kamino sabre dart looks like

Cody finding Obi Wan’s lightsabre just before Order 66 is given

The droids getting picked up by Jawa’s and taken to the Lar’s homestead

Running in to Han and Chewie in Mos Eisley

Han coming back to Yavin IV when he did

The Empire finding Hoth

Han and Leia ending up in the Anoat sector near Lando

Han defeating Boba Fett

Leia running into Wicket on Endor

As mentioned, there is a difference between coincidence which drives the obtaining of a goal within a plot and coincidence which is used for flavor while obtaining a goal. Obi Wan and Qui Gon meeting Anakin on Tatooine during the Naboo crisis is the central coincidence of the entire Star Wars saga and can almost be said to drive its entire plot. It cannot be avoided because almost all later character motivation is driven by decisions that Anakin has made. I say almost because, when we start in Episode I, the Republic and the Jedi Order have been crumbling for years and Palpatine has been manipulating events for his own gain for years. Those two elements are the remaining plot drivers and Palpatine’s manipulations are not coincidence and the Republic and Jedi Order crumbling are background/situational plot drivers.

The other coincidences are goal obtaining spice but ironically enough, as I think about the importance of each one, running into Jar Jar is probably the next important coincidence in the saga. Without his connection to the Gungans, there would be no Gungan army to distract the Trade Federation forces in order to sneak in the Naboo insertion team and therefore the Viceroy would not be captured and Maul may not have been killed making Naboo safe for Anakin. However, I keeping it under spice because it must be recognized that George Lucas likes the image of underdog primitives defeating a superior mechanized force. Conceivably, Lucas could have accomplished the Naboo victory in any number of ways: he could have had the Republic be somehow convinced that the Trade Federation was a legitimate threat and have it send an army of Jedi in Star Destroyer fighters or he could have had the Republic have a a non Jedi military which it would use to quell the TF. Jar Jar just allowed a particular image to be presented on screen.

Dexter in AotC knowing what a sabre dart is also coincidence spice. Obi Wan could have found Kamino in the archives but only at the expense of the shadowy conspiracy atmosphere not being established by the deletion of Kamino. Obi Wan getting his lightsabre back from Cody so that he could battle Anakin with it is spice. Lucas only had him lose it in the first place so that we could have the image of Obi Wan and Grevious fighting a fisticuff and later on, the image of Obi Wan using a gun. Han and Chewie meeting Luke and Obi Wan in the cantina is meaningless because anyone could have filled their role. It could have been BoShek and Brainiac that gave a ride to Obi Wan and Luke and later they would become the unforgettable rogues that we all know and love.

Han coming back to Yavin IV to save Luke is shrouded within the drama of the trench run battle and is thematically foreshadowed and intellectually justified in Luke and Han’s last scene together right before Han was about to leave the Rebel base. We at least get a reason as to why Han might have returned: Luke made him feel guilty and touched his conscience. It is coincidental that Han comes back when he does but not to the extent that it seems out of place that Han Solo just shows up out of nowhere.

The Empire finding Hoth is forgivable: it moves the plot along but does not help the protagonists within the movie solve their dilemmas and in fact, causes them. It also is not as nearly random as some of coincidences in the Force Awakens: at least the Empire is actively searching for the hidden primary Rebel base. The same is true about Leia and Han eventually ending up in the Anoat sector where Han’s old friend Lando happens to be; the coincidence, while solving the lightspeed problem, mostly worsens the plight of the heroes. Han is frozen in carbonite, Luke loses a hand.

Han defeating Fett. Well, what can I say? Lucas is pretty guilty of using a coincidence to get our heroes out of trouble here. Let’s just say Fett’s defeat isn’t a truly essential part of RotJ or the overall saga story. We could have easily have gotten an epic battle between Fett and Luke to accomplish the goal of defeating Fett so I will stick it under the coincidence spice. It can be admitted however, that said coincidence was used in a fairly weak fashion.

Like running into Jar Jar, there is Leia running into Wicket who uses his connection with his fellow Ewoks to enlist them in the battle with the Empire. Again, this is used to put an image on screen. The plot has the goal of taking down shield generator and the pathway taken using a native to provide an army. The goal is short term and clearly established: take out the shield generator. The path used was Wicket and his Ewoks but the Rebels had already set into motion a plan of their own to accomplish the destruction the shield generator. The coincidence was not the plan or the initial path but was incorporated into the Rebel‘s plan.

You may have noticed that I did not address the coincidence or the Jawas finding the droids and taking them to the Lars homestead. This one is important because it is often used to justify BB8 coincidentally running into Rey on Jakku. After all, R2 runs into Luke and Obi Wan and off they flew into adventure! Except, this is a very shallow understanding of what happened in Episodes I-III and finally A New Hope.

In Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan is tasked with looking over baby Luke. He tells Yoda and Bail Organa that he will give the infant to the Lars family on Tatooine. Too start off, Yoda and Bail Organa already know that Obi Wan will can be found on Tatooine in the future. Considering that Obi Wan is going to take Luke to live with family, it can be assumed that either Anakin or Artoo informed him about the Lars and (remember, Artoo saw part of the area where the Lars lived in Attack of the Clones) and that Obi Wan also probably knows the general area on Tatooine where the Lars lived. It may even be the case that he leaves Bail and Yoda with coordinates for the region where Obi Wan may be found. Even if he did not know the precise location of Obi Wan, he knew where the Lars homestead was since he had been there before and is the one who likely programmed the life pod to land in a region close to their homestead. The landing of the droids’ lifepod near the Lars homestead is not a coincidental, convenient landing!

There is also some evidence that Artoo did did not just know Obi Wan was on Tatooine but also knew where exactly Obi Wan was on Tatooine. First, we have to realize that Artoo knew that Obi Wan was watching over the Lars, and having been to the Lars homestead once before, knew that Obi Wan was in that general area. However, Episode IV indicates that he knows more than just Obi Wan’s general location, it indicates that he knew specifically where Obi Wan was. As soon as the life pod lands, he sets off for the canyon area where he is captured by the Jawas. He specifically goes the opposite direction from Threepio. It is true that Luke later tells the droids that old Obi Wan lives out beyond the Dune Sea, but the canyon area where Luke subsequently finds the runaway Artoo is presumably the same area where the Jawas found Artoo earlier. Artoo was not proceeding toward the Dune Sea because of what Luke said but already had an idea of where Obi Wan was.

Now, about coincidental picking up of Artoo and Threepio by the Jawas and their delivery to the Lars. First, it is not an unlikely coincidence. Artoo and Threepio droids near the Lar’s homestead and the Jawa Sandcrawler is looking for junk. Threepio and Artoo eventually get picked up and the fact that they are taken to the Lars’ homestead is not that amazing since they seem to be one of theirs’ seems to be one of the few settlements in the area. The Lars get Artoo and Threepio and Artoo subsequently escapes to go find Obi Wan. In the time span of a single night he makes it back to the canyon area where he was first captured. So, had he not been intercepted by the Jawas he would have like made it to Obi Wan earlier and Obi Wan would have figured out how to get Luke to go to Alderaan. What is important to realize about all of this is that Artoo and Threepio touching down near the Lars and Obi Wan is not an example of coincidence being the primary way that a goal is accomplished within the story and that the story itself is moved along by. Or, using the imagery that Hercules provided, it is not an example of a random guy with a gun showing up. Rather, it is goal obtaining “spice” and if it served anything, it served to save time in the movie by not having Obi Wan have to come back to the Lar’s homestead and convince the Lars to allow Luke to leave for Alderaan.


We have just established that Episode IV depicts Artoo accomplishing a a short term goal that he is handed, a goal in which he has some solid parameters in which to set about accomplishing it. We have also seen that coincidence in Episode IV merely serves as mostly “spice” and at most serves to save some story telling time and does not serve as the primary means by which Artoo accomplishes his goal. Let’s contrast Artoo’s mission with BB 8’s mission.

First, Poe Dameron realizes he is about to be caught and just tells BB 8 to get back to the Resistance. Wow! This is a pretty open ended mission for the little guy! I guess Poe has reason to trust this droid but we as the audience were never given any reason to trust him! Instead, the movie seems to rely on a nudge, nudge, wink, wink, “We as Star Wars fans know what little droids can do, don’t we?” method of selling us on this idea. If this had been Artoo, I would not have an issue with accepting that he could get half way across the galaxy without issue but Artoo has had six previous chapters to establish his character. I’ve never met BB 8. Fine, let’s see what he can do.

So, BB 8 rolls and rolls and finally gets picked up by a scavenger. Then Rey coincidentally runs in BB 8 and frees him from scavenger. Let’s be clear what this is. It’s pure, total coincidence. BB 8 did not knowingly land on a planet looking for some named Rey who could help him get back to the Resistance. He just ran into someone who could help him. I do not hold this coincidence against the movie. A lot of movies need at least one of these types of coincidences. This, being a kick starter for a new chapter of the entire Star Wars saga, is allowed a Qui Gon and Obi Wan meet Anakin Skywalker coincidence, for that is what this scene is. Rey is to be the central character for the final three chapters of the saga, and a fateful scene is needed to introduce her.

Meanwhile, above the planet Finn and Poe get shot down in their TIE Fighter. They crash on Jakku and both survive the crash. I see fans complain about the coincidence of them crashing near a settlement and that they both survive the crash. I don’t mind them both surviving though I admit it might be unlikely considering the state the TIE was in. I do admit it might be too much that the TIE just happened near a settlement but we have to keep in mind a couple of things. First, Poe had been on Jakku for a while. It’s not a stretch of the imagination to believe that he maneuvered them as close as he could to a settlement he knew about. Someone might argue that the TIE was heavily damaged and I would say, “True.” However, we cannot know if that damage entirely took out the TIE’s maneuvering thrusters or not. Considering that Poe crashed the TIE near a settlement, we have to assume it did not. However, I do concede that the TIE looks heavily damaged and so I can understand that fans think it quite a stretch to believe that Poe and Finn’s TIE just happened to crash near a settlement on Jakku. If you don’t buy that the TIE was still maneuverable enough for Poe to point it at a settlement, well it does not get any better.

Finn and Poe crash. Finn walks until he gets to the Jakku settlement nearby and literally just runs into Rey and BB 8. This was the point at which my suspension of disbelief was began to stretch, however it was not ready to snap yet! I am a good indoctrinated old skool EU fan and am willing to explain away quite a bit! Well, I was soon going to find out how well my indoctrination would hold.

Pretty soon, Rey, Finn, and BB 8 are running while TIE fighters chase them and are unable to blast them. Pretty incredible. Then they run into the Falcon. Lucky for them, I guess.

Well, they manage to get off Jakku with Rey piloting (more on that later) and who do they run into? Han Solo and Chewbacca! Both will later be instrumental in getting BB 8 to the Resistance.Now, keep in mind, this is no longer hired pilots and guns Han Solo and Chewbacca, whose roles could have been filled by two characters named BoShek and Brainiac or any other chracters in that Tatooine cantina. No, they are now famous war heroes Han Solo and Chewbacca who both have links to Resistance leader Leia Organa, and Rey, Finn, and BB 8 have just coincidentally run into these two. When asked what brought him and Chewie to Jakku, Han merely replies that they were scanning the galaxy for the Falcon’s signature. What does that even mean? Were they really just sitting there with their Freighter’s scanners, looking for the Falcon or were they surfing the New Republic’s navigational databases for signs of her? Han never says. In any event, him “scanning the galaxy” for the Falcon’s signature does not change the fact of the coincidence of Han And Chewie arriving just when Rey and Fin would need them or the fact that the Falcon was conveniently on Jakku in the first place.

It was at that point, The Force Awakens started to lose me in its narrative, or rather it started to lose me because of its lack of one. It was clear that coincidence was going to be the primary method of accomplishing things in the film. The coincidences I just illustrate are what the reviewer, Hercules, means by the imagery of someone just walking in with a gun. Extreme coincidence is how our main characters are thrown together and the film is unashamed of this. Fine, this did not yet turn me off of the film.

So, next we tackle issue of Episode VII’s world building. As mentioned, Han and Chewie found the Falcon by scanning for her signature. Again, there was no mention of what this means. At least the Empire had put a tracking device on the Falcon in Episode IV. I suppose that nowadays in the Episode VII era, a single ship’s scanners are so good it can eventually pinpoint the location of a ship within the galaxy. It could be that they’re just looking for ships by checking the navigational beacons of various worlds and sectors but since that’s not implied in anyway, let’s just assume single ships can scan a whole galaxy with sensiors and find any ship’s unique signal. Cool. Glad to know the GFFA has such incredible technology. Anyway, they need to switch to a clean ship so they head to Maz Kanata’s planet to get a “clean” ship. Well, they get there and…it’s pretty boring visually. Maz lives in a castle in a region on a planet that looks like it came straight out of Lord of the Rings. Everything is just…rather bland. It’s not that it’s done badly, it’s just that these kind of worlds have already been seen in the saga and so seems rather bland and uninteresting visually because you’ve been there done that. Then we get to see the inside of the castle and it’s…a less energetic rehash of the Cantina scene from A New Hope with none of the intrigue because you knew what to expect having been there and done that before. They didn’t even bother showing us any truly unique features about Maz’s castle which truly really disappointed me. I felt like I was expected to know what to expect just because I was a Star Wars fan. Anyway, then Maz herself comes out, and, visually speaking, she’s pretty bland. She kind of reminds me of an orange Donatello from the 2014 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie.

On it and on it goes throughout the whole movie: uninteresting and bland visuals. I think part of the reason I felt this way, is first, as I’ve previously mentioned, many of the visuals were derivatives of what we had seen in the original trilogy: monoclimate planets with a few structures that stand starkly against the backdrop of those planets. I think though, where George Lucas succeeded in those original films, was throwing vivid and living color against those backdrops. Dark browns of sandcrawlers, smoke and grime against lighter colors, and bright oranges of Stomtrooper shoulder pauldrons on the bright desert. There were long, focused shots on the denizens of those planets living and having fun: jazz in the cantina, various interactions of the characters there in the cantina, Ugnaughts getting mad at Chewbacca in ESB, droids randomly cussing out C 3PO, Malakili crying over his dead Rancor. That’s a brief list of what’s in the original trilogy and not even considering the little bits of life shown to us in the prequels. The worlds felt alive in Lucas’ produced movies. In The Force Awakens, the worlds of the first six chapters are referenced visually but the references feel like obligatory tokens thrown in to make us think Star Wars. Compared to the previous six films, it feels like there was little thought in making the planets in The Force Awaken seem alive. “Dear viewer, you have a Resistance base on a random planet and a smuggler den. You know how to feel. ”

Essentially, how I feel about The Force Awakens’ visuals can be summed by what James Cameron said about the film recently(read about the interview here: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/06/28/james-cameron-throws-shade-at-star-wars-the-force-awakens)\

“I have to say that I felt that George’s group of six films had more innovative visual imagination. This film was more of a retrenchment to things you had seen before and characters you had seen before and it took a few baby steps forward with new characters.”

His comment about the visual innovation of the first six films is spot on for me. Yeah, he does not lend my opinion any authority because he’s not god but James is one man who knows visuals. James’ visuals, even when I dislike his movies, have never failed to inspire emotion me, sometimes deeply. I give his opinion on the matter a lot of weight.

There’s more to Star Wars world building then interesting visuals and quirky displays of behavior by the characters that inhabit the universe. In the original trilogy, there wasn’t too much of a need to explain the relationship between the Empire and the Rebellion. The Empire ruled and the rebellion was rebelling. Surprisingly though, we got a lot. By A New Hope, we knew there had been an Old Republic, the Jedi Order had supported it, one of its number had been seduced and helped the Emperor destroy the Order, the Empire stilled used the Senate to maintain control, and that was about to change as the Empire initiated a “Rule through Fear” doctrine with the Death Star at the center of it. What do we know about the First Order? Well, we know it rose from the ashes of the Empire. No other particulars are given beyond that except that it apparently values order and that it’s supported by the mysterious Knights of Ren and some guy called Snoke. Well, one might say we didn’t know anything about the Emperor in Episode IV. I would say, we didn’t have to know much and what we did know was far more than e know about Snoke. We know that Empires are usually ruled by Emperors, so there was no mystery about why the Emperor ruled the Empire. We know that he destroyed the Jedi and eliminated the Senate. Why did he do this? Because he’s a power hungry Emperor but that makes sense because he’s an Emperor. See, Episode IV could get away with being light on details because there was nothing before it, and later, Lucas wrote three chapters filling in the details.

The First Order comes with baggage. Forget what is the First Order, what is a First Order? It’s not a name that is self-explanatory. What kind of government does it have? How did it arise from the ashes of the Empire? What’s its relationship to the New Republic? What does a Supreme Leader do? Besides believing in Order, what has it been doing all this time in the galaxy?


What’s the Resistance? What’s its relationship to the First Order and New Republic? Before the attack on Hosnian Prime, why was it “resisting” the First Order? What did the First Order do to make Leia want to resist it? How is the New Republic supporting the Resistance? Why isn’t the New Republic openly defying the First Order? Whoops, scratch that last question. You only even know that the New Republic is not openly defying the First Order from the books.

What’s the New Republic? The crawl mentions it but never says exactly what it is. Why is its capital now on Hosnian Prime when the capital of the galaxy has been Coruscant for a thousand years and possibly more?

The movie does not any of those questions. Instead, you have to read the books and novels to get a good appreciation for what is going on in the movie. General Hux’s line about the new Republic “…secretly supporting the treachery of the loathsome Resistance…” only makes sense when you read the sourcebooks which confirm that most support for the Resistance is done in secret and denied by the New Republic. Good luck figuring that out from the movie. I have more on this particular idea later.

Finally, we get to Starkiller Base. For half of the movie, we are told that getting BB 8 to the Resistance Base and accessing his map leading to Luke Skywalker is the primary goal of the story. A little over half way through the movie, we are essentially told, “Oops. There’s a Starkiller Base.” Wow. Great way of weaving the threads of dread and anticipation over Starkiller Base throughout the story. Though I would not file this under the previously mentioned list of coincidences, it’s definitely another, “And then a man entered the room with a gun!” incident. I am still not quite clear how the Resistance got detailed plans to Starkiller Base. Did BB 8 have those as well as the map or did Finn provide those details? Or were they just obtained from a recon flight? The moving implies it came solely from a recon flight. Well, it does not really matter, since the guy who goes over the weakness in the Starkiller Base design indicates he does not really use the schematics to plan the assault when he says, “ In order for that amount of power to be contained, that base would need some kind of thermal oscillator...” Then they proceed to look for it on the hologram until they find one. What?! When I heard Han joke that there’s always weakness, I assumed it was just cocky yet optimistic Han who would soon be proven tragically wrong. Nope. He’s right. Who needs plans to the damn thing? I gues the energy management on the scale of Starkiller Base is common enough that people just know you need a thermal oscillator for such a feat. Maybe the first and second Death Stars were not assumed to have or need a thermal oscillator because they did not actively absorb suns for power. Starkiller Base does and perhaps other structures in the Star Wars universe do and perhaps they have thermal oscillators. See? I’m a good Star Wars fan.

However, you have to ask: what the heck is a thermal oscillator!? I can assume from the words that it somehow keeps energy contained by making temperatures stay within a certain range. However, that’s an assumption and, I’m sorry to say this, but unless you’ve taken a remedial science course, you couldn’t even come up with that explanation. I am sure that for most of the audience, it was just Star Trek type techno babble. Cool . Audiences can deal with that but the point is, it should not have had to come down to Star Trekian names for something that important. Take the description in A New Hope of how to destroy the Death Star: shoot some torpedoes down an exhaust pipe that leads to the main reactor of the damn thing. The audience isn’t left in the dark as to the significance of this statement. Everyone knows, even in real life, that if something explodes near a primary reactor, that ain’t good. Things go kaboom. In A New Hope, we would know this intuitively even if Dodonna hadn’t explained the chain reaction scenario. In The Force Awakens, we only know that Starkiller Base will explode when its thermal oscillator is destroyed because the one guy says so. “Destroy the thermal oscillator!” is not an intuitive notion and its Star Trek like clunkiness is alien to Star Wars. It’s not just an example of not engaging in sufficient world building, it’s an example of doing it badly.

So, now Finn and the gang are on their way to Starkiller Base. Finn reviews you dealt with trash disposal and has no idea how to disable the base. Captain Phasma, whom they just coincidentally run into a space station the size of a planet, does! To be fair, maybe Finn took them near a known hang out of Phasma, a place where she was likely to be. Enough! This is not about coincidences! This is about world building! So, Phasma can, on her own just shut down the entire shield system of Starkiller Base. Also, it apparently takes a while to bring those shields back up. At this point, if you’ve accepted all the coincidences and inadequate world building leading up to this moment, then your reaction is, “What the heck, why not?”


So, the Resistance X wings come out of hyperspace and attack the planet. Essentially, it’s A New Hope all over again complete with not explaining why the First Order does not just launch a bunch of TIEs to deal with the attacking X wings. To be fair, A New Hope never explained why this did not happen either and it is a plot hiccup in the movie later explained away by the EU by saying Tarkin was so overconfident he did not want to launch TIEs. For the current canon, this may one be given as the reason why Hux does not launch enough TIEs to wipe out the X Wings, though I thought the point of the First Order was not to repeat the mistakes of the Empire? Anyway, in a tribute to ANH, complete with a version of the trench run, our X wings finally get to the thermal oscillator and blow up Starkiller Base.

Finally, I just want to touch a bit on the characters. My comments on the characters, in comparison to everything else is brief, at least when it concerns the negatives for this movie. First, General Hux. He was a boring Tarkin wannabe. He got one kinda cool speech scene and that was it. Second, Phasma. She was wasted. Other things are just personal tastes. For instance, I do not know why Han and Leia had to have such horrible lives after RotJ. That’s one of the things I hated about the EU right before the Great Canon Purge. Ah well. Finally, the last character I had trouble with was Rey.

Rey. Who is she? Where does she come from? Hopefully we find out because as I mentioned before she has some flight skills that would make Han and Lando blush, and she’s only hever flown on a simulator according to the sourcebooks. Cool, she can outfly pilots who should have more skill than her. I guess she may be a chosen one or an avatar of the Force but Anakin was a Chosen One too and he needed the Starfighter AI to get him to space battle above Naboo. Then he managed to spin and fall into the gaping Trade Federation hangar. The Force was with him but not the spaceflight skill that Rey displays in TFA, and did I mention he was the Chosen One?


Then there’s all the other stuff she’s able to do: Force trick, lightsaber combat. Dang, she’s got it all down. Anakin doesn’t have anything on her. He actually had to train and hone those skills for years even with his natural aptitude. Rey must be more than a Chosen One; for anything we saw in The Force Awakens to make sense about her, she better end up being a manifestation of the Force itself. That is the only way she’d make sense. Unfortunately, her specialness is foreshadowed and it’s not. That’s because it’s only hinted at in a vague vision. No prophecies are given. No claims of conception without sex. In fact, for the most part, it looks like she just had a crappy dysfunctional family that abandoned her. Other than some vision with what is possibly Obi Wan’s voice, there’s nothing in the movie to make me understand why I have to accept what I see her doing on screen. She’s just that good.

World building is essential. In a movie, plot scenery, music ( did I mention there’s not a lick of memorable music pieces in TFA?) characterization all mix together to create something believable enough that a viewer can escape into it. Star Wars: The Force Awakens fails in all these arenas. I hate to parrot what other reviewers, such as Hercules have said, but I found it true when watching the movie Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ main tool used to get you to accept what you’re seeing on the screen is nostalgia, cynically directed at fans. Not only does it use nostalgia but it uses it badly, as if non fans who had only heard of Star Wars stereotypes and tropes, threw a bunch together and said, “Aha! They’ll eat this slop up with a sloppy grin!”

I cannot get the image of a bunch of media goons at Disney and LFL testing each part of the movie along the way and constructing it like Frito Lays or whoever constructs a Cheeto with the goal of tricking us into believing we’re really eating cheese. It’s an extremely lazy and derivative piece of art. Hercules and Cameron agreed on one thing, and I’ll just paraphrase and translate what they were trying to say: Say what you will about the prequels, but I can tell when watching them that Lucas wasn’t trying to pass off a Cheeto as a real piece of cheese to me. He cooked up something badly and served it to me but he was not trying to be deceptive, he was just being a bad cook. I’m also not trying to say Disney or LFL is trying to be maliciously deceptive. I’m just saying they cooked up a very corporate meal product and tried to serve it to me as a real piece of food. There is nothing especially immoral with what they did just like there’s nothing especially immoral with the Cheeto. They’re trying to make money. I get it. With giant, multimillion dollar movies, you want to play it safe. However, watching The Force Awakens, I feel like there was a kernel of something that was at one time less than corporate, possible even bold. Surprisingly, that kernel is within the relationship between the First Order and the New Republic, and ultimately ties into morality that The Force Awakens is attempting to deliver to us, the audience.

If you had been following the original early spoilers circulating before the release of Episode VII, then you would have been led to believe that the movie was definitely going to get into the relationship between the First Order, the New Republic, and the Resistance. I think many of these spoilers related to earlier drafts of The Force Awakens. The spoilers held the promise that the movie would explore the morality of the New Republic fighting a proxy war with the First Order through the Resistance, and it promised to explore what happened when individuals and groups of individuals began to lose their identity in their fanaticism to fight evil. The Resistance was supposedly going to have its own super weapon called the “Sledgehammer” and Leia would give orders to use it against the First Order. Ultimately, the Sledgehammer would be countered by Starkiller Base and the movie was supposed to end just as it ends in the version ultimately released. The difference is that The Force Awakens that spoilers indicated would come out was to be an entertaining analysis of good and evil and would ask how far should one go to fight evil? As mentioned, members of the Resistance were to lose their identity in the fight against the First Order. Leia was to be almost fanatical, even condoning the use of the “Sledgehammer”.

We see remnants of the fanatical Leia plot line when we see references to New Republic senators seeing her as a warmonger. Except, these references are no longer in the The Force Awakens but are in the sourcebooks and novels. We see references to the New Republic fighting a proxy war in First Order territory using the Resistance when we see references in the sourcebooks about some of the New Republic coming secretly from the government and private citizens, as well to references to the New Republic disavowing knowledge of the group’s activities in First Order space. Finally, we see references to the secret New Republic backing for the group in General Hux’s speech in the movie, when he talks about the New Republic denying involvement with the Resistance.

Most viewers could probably care less about the subject of the morality of proxy wars but this is a subject that I feel would have been worth exploring more in the movie, should have been explored more, and if spoilers are to be believed, was originally going to be explored more. Instead, the movie was reduced to a simply good vs evil, right vs wrong tale like the original trilogy when, by the nature of its background, it is not.

In the original trilogy, the Rebellion is a popular uprising within the borders of the Empire. After Endor, we see that once the Emperor is dead, even Imperials begin to defect, giving much needed manpower to the New Republic. It is an uprising by the a good portion of the people in the name of the people. Eventually, galactic politics stabilize with two territories: The First Order and the New Republic. The Resistance is started by Leia Organa and is backed by the New Republic government and private officials. The New Republic denies operating within First Order space and denies any involvement with the Resistance. So, essentially, unlike the Rebellion, the Resistance is a government backed paramilitary organization within a foreign government’s borders.


We know from the sourcebooks and comics that the Resistance has been harassing the First Order before The Force Awakens. I know that the Resistance recruits from worlds within First Order borders but that hardly means anything other than that the New Republic recruits individuals that share its political outlook, or worse, recruits individuals who possibly desire to topple the government they live under so they can be the next generation’s tyrants. No foreign government can be safely said to have only the interests of the people of another territory in mind when interfering with the politics of that territory. Nation number 1 interferes with the politics of nation number 2 only when it benefits nation number 1. This is fine and dandy but who is to say that what benefits nation number 1 also benefits the majority of people in nation number 2?

Now before anyone accuses me of being a First Order sympathizer and therefore a a sympathizer of authoritarian governments in general, let me clarify my position further. I am no fool. As the First Order has been established, it is a political body that probably would have used Starkiller Base on the New Republic regardless of whether or not the Republic was operating with First Order space. However, the Resistance is essentially a preemptive strike against the First Order and the morality of that is never explored in the movie and it SHOULD BE. After all, we know that preemptive strikes can sometimes be strikes against smoke and mirrors. To make a preemptive strike is a huge step, one that should require much moral debate. None of that is ever discussed in The Force Awakens. The fact that the New Republic is making decisions for the people of the First Order is never discussed. It’s simply glossed over in the movie. It should not be.

A second point, is that the movie never discusses why the New Republic set up a proxy organization in First Order space. Worse, the sourcebooks basically confirm that there was no real hint to the New Republic that a massive threat to the New Republic existed in First Order space. Leia essentially uses her experience in Bloodlines and her own personal pull with New Republic politicians to launch her movement. It’s amazing me to me that we accept this without debate in the story.

Proxy wars happen. In real life wars such as Iraq and Afghanistan, we had to be told there was some immediate threat to our existence to get public support for those wars. Once Iraq was determined to be a lie, there was disapproval of the war amongst the public. However, in recent history, Western nations have launched proxy Wars in countries such as Ukraine, Libya, and Syria with disastrous results. Unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, these wars weren’t done in the name of protection; they were done in the name of the people of some other nation. The Force Awakens almost goes along with the spirit of the times by almost justifying such horrific policies. “See, these secretive violent regimes might be holding a Starkiller Base! Also, in the name of the people!”

I am not saying that the writers intentionally wrote The Force Awakens to get people to accept the notion of preemptive strikes and proxy wars. I am saying they wrote a movie that originally was probably more complex than what we were given and then the corporate goons that I previously mentioned nixed all the complicated stuff. The final product is presented to us as something morally as simple as the original trilogy (I’m not saying the original trilogy is necessarily morally simple, I’m saying it’s simpler when compared to The Force Awakens’ moral situation) when it’s not! The movie does a terrible job at addressing the moral ambiguity of the First Order/Resistance situation and does not care because, hint hint, nudge, nudge, this is a A New Hope all over again, so like it because nostalgia!

I’ve seen posters here ridicule the notion that fiction has an effect on our moral code when we’re older. I understand the ridicule because it seems preposterous, but believe me, when you live in a dysfunctional family, sometimes Optimus Prime and Luke Skywalker are the most moral examples you have in your life until you become an adult. Trust me, I have experience with this. I guess this is why I feel that the movie has a responsibility to at least address the proxy war situation in The Force Awakens in order to get the audience, young and old, to think rather than just being concerned about getting the green paper in my wallet.

Anyway, that’s my review. I wanted to like The Force Awakens. I really did. I was prepared to. I could not like it for all of the above stated reasons and a few more that aren’t worth me mentioning. Over reliance on coincidence, bad world building, over reliance on nostalgia, and shaky morality just killed this movie for me. That’s not to say I hated all of it, though to be sure, what I liked would fill a far smaller post than what I didn't. Hercules mentioned that JJ and crew continually asked themselves: “Is this delightful?” For myself, I can say, no. No, it was not.

 

I said I would discuss the positive aspects of the film. I will post about the positive parts of the movie later.

There were things about it I did enjoy, even if overall, it was a miss for me. I'm not a total curmudgeon. Yet.

 

This month's viewing of The Force Awakens was Netflix Canada enabled because I didn't want to burn precious calories and time by putting in the blu-ray (and I want Netflix to know that I watched the thing fully just cuz). Actually, since Netflix knows my TV output is only 2 channel stereo, and the blu ray defaults to the 6.1 mix, I think this actually sounded better than usual cuz it seemed like it was mixed a little better at stereo. Like I heard Luke's "No, no!" scream from ESB in the shot of Luke clutching Artoo which I hadn't noticed before (or I did and I forgot). One thing that bugs me, and it's just a Netflix thing, is that as soon as the end-credits roll the screen minimizes and Netflix tries to get you to watch their own content (in this case, Sense8 which does actually fit better than the one time I watched Ex Machina and it tired to get me to watch The Do Over with Adam Sandler) but, dangit, I wanna watch the credits roll and listen to John Williams outro suite. And, by watching the credits, I did notice that TFA had a "No animals were harmed in the filming of this movie" credit but, really, where are there actual animals used in TFA? Are the Rathar's real? Is someone not telling me some sort of horrible truth?!

Oh and also on this viewing I found myself wondering if Carrie's Fisher's dog was just down off camera in every shot she's in. She doesn't have many full body shots, that is distinctly possible. Maybe that's what the "no animals were harmed" credit was for.

 

...you just wrote the Declaration of Independence over a star wars movie.

 

Matthew Trias exactly how long did it take you to write that? Probably better to just give a short summary of your opinions on the movie because few will likely read through that entire thing.

In short I would say most would agree that TFA wasn't an extremely deep movie but it didn't set out to be an extremely deep movie either. It's main objective was simply to be a fun film to watch and introduce you to the new characters in Rey, Finn, and Poe and make you care about them. And in that (for most people based on all the positive reactions we see about the film) it did that wonderfully well.

 

Just wait until you see what the chosen one Rian Johnson has in store. Just you wait...

 

from http://breath-art.deviantart.com/

 

Needs more Sad Luke.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

I think that we will see that in the future, to my understanding that is just a premiere picture made before the artist actually saw the movie

 

Clearly, because Phasma needs to be replaced by TR-8R.

 

Well, if you don't read it, the short end of it sounds pretty much like what most others would say. Just take the summary statement from above: Additionally, the film relies on incredible coincidences in a way that the original films never had to, it lacks sufficient world building, it fosters political ideas that under any under circumstances would be unpalatable, and it relied way too much on being a complete and total derivative of A New Hope mixed with a little Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi while not understanding what any of those films did right.



Without everything else though, that;s not really insightful. While my conclusions might be similar to a lot of negative critiques, I think how I arrived at them is worth a spin if you have time, a cup of coffee, and a dough nut or two. I think my reasoninging, beyond the coincidence stuff, is a little less esoteric than Hulk's at least and more to the point.

I wrote that review post on a day off for like minded people who also have a day off and nothing to do. If you finish it, you might enjoy it. You may not. :shrug:

Also, my critique is not that it's not a deep movie. Episode IV is not a very deep movie since it's essentially a simple Knight's tale. My critique of Episode VII is essentially that it's a sloppy and lazy movie plot wise. :cough: And visually,

Anyway, so as to fulfill my promise, here, in a much, much, shorter post, are the things that I liked about Episode VII. No back handedness intended:

So, as promised, here is the stuff in The Force Awakens that I enjoyed:

In his review, Hulk said:
THE WORST PART IS THAT THE FILMMAKERS KNOW SHE NEEDS A MOTIVATION, BUT THE BEST OF THAT TEXTURE THEY CAN GIVE HER IS "SHE WANTS HER FAMILY BACK" AND DOESN'T WANT TO LEAVE BECAUSE OF ABANDONMENT ISSUES. BUT FORGET THE FACT THAT THIS IS SO MUDDLED AND CLOUDED IN MYSTERY THAT IT DOESN'T PLAY AS A CLEAR MOTIVATION AT ALL (THANKS REVEAL-HAPPY-VS-DEMONSTRATIVE FILMMMAKERS!), IT'S THE OBVIOUS TRUTH THAT BEING HOMESICK OR FEELING ABANDONED IS NOT A DAMN WEAKNESS

I disagree with this heavily. Anyone who has ever really struggled with the feeling of abandonment can testify that it can be more than just an incidental character flaw and can actually be severe handicap.
I think the film did an adequate job showing that Rey was being less than rational about her circumstances and that her continuing desire to just sit and wait on Jakku was heading her back from a greater destiny. I mean, Han offers a job and she’s like, “Nah bra, gonna wait on Jakku for my missing family.” Uh yeah Rey, it is officially established that you’re nuts and are being held back by a weakness. The film’s argument is that she gets over it by the love of others and being surrounded with people who sacrificed for her thus encouraging her to adopt them as her new family. It might be cheesy and it might trite, but I thought the film did a good job establishing that.

Likewise, for Finn, I didn’t need too much set up for him. It was easy for me to imagine that someone might have desired another type of life his entire existence. Subsequent shots of him getting starry eyed over Finn and enjoying the friendship with Poe were enough of an emotional argument for me to accept why Finn left the First Order: he desired another life, one that was full of what we might consider the normal stuff.

I felt Kylo came off convincingly enough as the son of a Princess and a well known war hero: smug, arrogant, and spoiled. However, I realized a bit later that the reason I felt he was sufficiently established as a character was because I was taking some of Jacen Solo’s life and applying to in Ren and in essence saying: Yeah, Kylo makes sense as a character. In retrospect, the movie does not do a great job establishing why Kylo is so amped about purging weakness or following in the footsteps of his grandfather. This would be okay if he was introduced like Vader was in ANH, as a character did things just because he was evil for the sake of being evil. The problem is that he’s introduced as a more emotionally complicated ESB Vader without any reason for why we should accept his complications. So, this is a half and half. The actor did very well playing Kylo Ren but point is conceded that Kylo really has no motivation for why he does what he does.

As for all the actors in general, they did a fantastic job. I believed what they were doing. Hercules mentioned this, and it’s true: JJ does a great job at casting actors who emote and make you emote. Not quite as talented as Cameron in casting but JJ does have appreciable talent. (I’d saying the only let down of an actor was the guy playing Hux…boring Tarkin rip off for the most part)

Chewbacca! Besides him stealing the AT ST in RotJ, this is one of the better Chewie moments as he rampages through Starkiller Base taking out stormtroopers after almost killing Kylo Ren. Awesome scene. In fact, plot logic dictates that one of the major reasons that Rey defeats Kylo later is because CHEWIE FRIKKIN SHOT HIM WITH A BOWCASTER BOLT. Nice job Chewie.
I liked that the Storm troopers did useful stuff in the movie: they disabled Poe’s T-70, captured Poe, and captured Rey. I like that their skills were sufficiently upgraded and I can’t understand reviewers who say their baton training makes no sense. These guys have spent the last 3 or so years looking for LUKE SKYWALKER. Training them to combat lightsaber users like Jedi Knights makes perfect sense and shows that the First Order has learned to adapt. Unfortunately, the refreshing show of competence by the First Order only served to highlight its sudden onslaught of total incompetence when it came to defending Starkiller Base at the end of movie.

Finally, I liked the lightsaber fights. I thought the shorter, more brutal, and far more crude nature of the saber fights in TFA were a good evolutionary end point for saber fights as we’ve seen them in the three trilogies. The first trilogy had elegant sweeping dances, the second one had fights that were less elegant and more functional, and now TFA shows us barely functional and crude fights which were really fun to watch.
And…that’s it. I can’t really think of anything else. That concludes my thoughts on The Force Awakens.