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Lit THE FORCE AWAKENS - The Official Movie Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by AdmiralNick22 , Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Ord Sorrell

    Ord Sorrell Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2016
    I sure hope they arent thinking about expading this story line into a 6 part, two trilogy saga....God that would be horrible
     
  2. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Well it's already a 9-part, three trilogy saga. :p

    Next trilogy it's the survivors of this young generation (Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo) who are the aged mentors.

    I wouldn't be surprised if, in the future, instead of "PT" "OT" "ST" we say the "Anakin trilogy" "Luke trilogy" "Rey trilogy", but 10-12 probably won't come until there's at least a 10 year break after 9... filled with more spinoff anthology movies like Rogue One of course.


    I don't know about this idea... even if it's likely, it's not as satisfactory... but 10-12 are pretty much inevitable in the next 30 years.
     
    Gamiel likes this.
  3. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Episode 10-12 are probably about 3-5 years, max, after Episode 9. this is Disney we're talking about. They're gonna maybe ride the "A Star Wars Story" for a bit and then into another Episode trilogy. Because money!

    Although, personally, I would be happy if 5 years after Episode 9, they go to Episode 13. Do 13-15. Then a few years after that do the ST-PT of Episode 10-12 with the Big Three of TFA aged up a few years more. I ain't even kidding. Do we really wanna recast Rey in Episode 10 if it happens right after or wait a solid decade in between? (there should be a sorta generational gap in between trilogies, that's kind of the point of separating the whole thing into eras)
     
  4. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    I don't get it.



    I want to see where Episode 9 ends before having an opinion of the future. I do want to see the sequel trilogy characters in further adventures (whether that be in movies or tie-ins), though.
     
  5. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Look into your heart WebLurker. There's been an awakening. Do you feel it? The real Snoke was with us the whole time. He never left. You just had to believe.
     
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  6. fett 4

    fett 4 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    It's going to involve The Empire First Order Second Imperial Order looking for a droid with secret information, who runs into someone on Tatoonie Jakku Desert planet and a group of Rebels Resistance Insurgents trying to destroy a Death Star Planet destroying super weapon :p
     
  7. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016

    Hmmm.

    Nope, still don't get it.
     
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  8. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    "Maybe the real treasure is the friends we made along the way" is a common trope in TV and movies that the internet mocks with image macros.

    +

    Snoke is a guy whose real identity people keep obsessing over


    =

    "Maybe the real Snoke is the friends we made along the way"

    Good joke, everyone laugh, drumroll, curtains.
     
  9. Gamiel

    Gamiel Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    I just hope the desert planet in Episode X is something else then a warm, beige/brown coloured, sand desert.

    They could film in the Gobi desert if they needed to film in a real desert and/or use a coloured filter to give the appearance of a blue/red/green/other star.

    Something that could be fun is a desert (stone or sand) mostly made out of rocks/sand of an unusual colour, like green, pink or blue. Having the heroes dress up in camouflage clothing for a pink desert would be a sight.
     
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  10. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Oh. Seems more cringeworthy, IMHO, but to each their own.
     
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  11. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    You don't lurk the web enough. You need more MLP in your life.
     
  12. Grey1

    Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Thing is, Kylo Ren doesn't need to be redeemed because he's so likeable (which is really a POV thing); if he were redeemed, it would be mostly because of a universal message of forgiveness (see Vader) and because of the expectation that SW goes for that ending. SW without forgiveness/redemption sucks, mostly because Troy Denning wrote it.

    I personally like the idea of Kylo having been more or less brainwashed by Snoke. Not like "he's not responsible!", but rather "he'd be a good person if someone hadn't gone all-in when seducing him to the dark side". Not because I like that emo guy, but because it would be a satisfying explanation why the child of one of movie history's greatest couples would fall this far from the tree. Han and Leia do not say "our son was born evil and Luke sucks at teaching good", they say "Snoke took him away from us". Which is the single greatest bit the movie does with Weird CGI Guy.

    Could Kylo simply be a bad person who wants to be evil because evil is so, like, cool and he himself is, like, so, like, dumb? Yes, but I'd find that immensely unsatisfying. Compare it to Anakin/Vader in "I'm doing this for Padmé/WHAT AM I DOING" mode from Mace's death up to Obi-Wan sneaking out of Padmé's ship. There's a reason why he's turning evil, and there's an awareness that something is very wrong, but there's a few factors that essentially leave him no choice but to embrace his new path if he is to keep functioning. With Kylo, I don't see this kind of lever yet. So either there's a pathetic villain or a tragic character. And the latter doesn't mean that he has to become a knight in shining armour; it's a bit late for that. But realizing that Snoke set him on a destructive path and that he's, like, really really devastated that he did all the stuff he did, that is something that would give us just a tiny wee little scrap of peace regarding Solo family history.

    It's also evident that Kylo has a real problem with his old identity. Not simply "Han is your biggest test" and "the pull of the light side", but because he's turning insecure when he's leaving his mask off. He's weaker when confronting Rey (and who knows why he chose to reveal himself in the first place, except for the plot pushing him to show his face). He's outright embarrassed when Hux interrupts his audience. And he's losing against Rey (and not mopping the floor with Finn right away) in the lightsaber battle. Yeah, there's factors like strength and injuries, but the absence of the mask is symbolic. After kiling Han, he should just become all-mask Kylo, an entirely new identity just like Vader was eventually forged into a monster with a new face. But he's still incomplete. He's only his father's son and his father's murderer, we do not see him apart from his family. Was this supposed to show that he doesn't feel the need to hide anymore, to run away from his old identity anymore? If I'm intrigued by anything the next author will come up with it's whether Kylo still feels the need to hide behind a mask or whether he's eventually comfortable with being the guy who looks like he was, plus some nifty new scar. Or if the scar will be one more reason to hide behind his mask. You could even have sealed him in his mask somehow, maybe fuse it to his face or something by lightsaber. But either way they surely wouldn't want to hire an actor and make his face recognizable on deviantart and instagram, then hide him and his acting for the rest of the trilogy. And I guess neither would they discard the now toybox-iconic mask design.

    Either way, if they intend to quickly jump into ep10-12, having a mostly masked Kylo would help hide the actor's age. Maybe doing just one bad CGI makeup scene when he eventually takes his mask off.

    Well, Vader couldn't kill his father, could he now. And even then he killed Obi-Wan, who was the closest to a father surrogate for him. Well, except for Palpatine, but that's another story.
     
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  13. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Fixed.

    That sounds amazing.
     
  14. Ord Sorrell

    Ord Sorrell Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2016
    Luke, Leia and Han are more like set props...

    What I meant is.. I want Kylo, Finn and Rey's adventures complete by Episode IX...

    if (and when) they make a X... if they want to bring Kylo, Finn or Rey back as supporting characters that would be ok.. (but very small bit roles.. less even than Luke/Han/Leia in this film)... I think the Original Trilogy cast is a nice addition to the new sequel trilogy movies because they skipped the PT films....

    if Kylo or Rey are substantial characters in movies after IX, I think fans would be furious

    and I think episode X will come sooner than a decade's wait (after IX)... 5 years after 9 max...

    Disney bought this franchise to CA$H in... and the execs/producers/writers don't care where the franchise is in 20 years.. they want to make their fortunes.. and retire on some greek island ..
     
  15. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    I'd prefer the character not be redeemed for a couple reasons (not counting the fact that I saw the movie giving him his last chance and him rejecting it). The story has already been done with Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. I'd rather see something new, and the fallen villain staying fallen would fit the bill. Also, it would be perfect irony. Kylo idolizes Vader and wants to be exactly like him, but instead of turning back to the light and being like Vader when it mattered the most, he stays on the dark side to the bitter end, the one thing Vader never did. I'm also not sure how any of the main characters would be able to forgive him after what he did to them in the movie

    (Also, the insights we get into Kylo in the novelizations don't really offer any hints that he could be redeemed. There doesn't seem to be any hooks for that. He's still fanatically loyal to Snoke and the dark side. He scoffs at all the examples of love and care between people that he comes across -- the thing that paved the way for Vader's redemption. I'm not reading anything here, although I will concede that the novelizations maybe somewhat limited in the information they can present.)

    True. I meant more generally. When push came to shove, Vader couldn't kill a blood relative or stand by and let him die. Kylo did it himself with no remorse.
     
  16. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 24, 2005
    The sticking point with Kylo isn't the idea that he might turn away from the dark side. As Grey says, this is Star Wars, so that should always be on the table. The sticking point is the idea that -- as is frequently suggested online -- he'll move forward as one of the good guys, afterwards, helping Rey and Luke rebuild the Jedi Order, or whatever.

    Like . . . no. If they want to distinguish his redemptive arc from Vader's (i.e. no dying at the end), a Ulic ending is basically the best he can hope for.

    And Rey Sunrider does have a nice ring to it.

    As an aside . . . while he's a deplorable wretch, I think Kylo is pretty likeable as villains go. At least before he takes off the mask. "Anything else?" Lawl.

    I hope he still has a sense of humour in E8 and brings it to his (presumably inevitable) rematch with Rey.
     
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  17. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Trilogy will feel incomplete without Kylo and Hux stuck in an escape pod recreating the Jafar/Iago dynamic

    "Get your blasted mask out of my face!"
    "Oh, shut up, you moron!"
    "Don't tell me to shut up!"

    As much fun as the Megatron/Starscream dynamic is, this is more Disney. It also provides the opportunity for the line "With all due respect, your rottenness" which is basically the most SW line ever to not be in SW and needs to be delivered at Leia's kid.
     
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  18. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Kinda reminds me of the early CGI series Insektors. In the original French version at least, Lord Teknocratus* would always use funny and contextual forms of address when talking to Lord Krabo** ("Your Carelessness", "Your Forgetfulness", "Your Disingenuousness" and so on).

    * Lord Synapse for those in the UK.
    ** Lord Draffsack for those in the UK.
     
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  19. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2005
    I can't even remember what it was in Aus. All I know is there was a guitar.
     
  20. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 3, 2016
    Not being bright-eyed and awed doesn't immediately equate to "that guy who has Hybrid Theory on repeat 24/7 whenever he's wearing his helmet". :p
     
  21. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    I could never really get into Insektors. I don't find insects especially compelling as protagonists.

    Ninja Hero turtles, biker mice, pizza cats and gummy bears, sure. Insects? Nah.
     
  22. LelalMekha

    LelalMekha Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2012
    I used to think the writing in Insektors was kinda good, though. Not really the plots themselves, but the dialogues. Especially the Beurks/Yuks' dialogues.
     
  23. Grey1

    Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Thing is, as much as Abrams may have had his ideas during the production of Ep7, it does look as if Johnson and Treverrov are allowed to make it up as they go along. Early talk around Johnson sounds as if he was simply allowed to do what he wanted, and with Treverrov, you get the guy who told Spielberg that the Jurassic Park 4 script was crap, wrote something "new" and then made one of the biggest blockbusters in town. If Treverrov wants to repeat ROTJ beat by beat but with Gungans instead of Ewoks, I'm not sure if they'd stop him. And stuff that Foster interpreted into Abrams' notes may be very certain-point-of-view all of a sudden. I mean, it's not even the first time Foster wrote a novel and didn't know the whole deal about the villain.

    I'm not advocating a Kylo redemption because I love the little wuss. Which I don't, although I must admit that the character is quite interesting so far. The point of SW redemption is that no matter how evil someone gets, and Vader stands for absolute evil for the course of almost all three movies (I mean come on, he's topping the family reveal with cutting his son's hand off), forgiveness isn't about "oh I guess it wasn't so bad what you did". It's about forgiving. And granting a new start, if only a new start at being accepted and loved before one's death, is a really big gesture. SW doesn't forgive you because you only killed unimportant people, or because you simply blew up stuff that may or may not have contained people. It forgives you for everything and then offers you its neck. Luke doesn't want to continue the endless circle of violence and of blame.

    I seriously hope SW won't sell out and lose this message just to give the audience a Tarantino-approved revenge fantasy in which we learn that Luke's pacifism only led to bad people grow stronger and do a lot of evil stuff, and that Rey or whoever should go the Caedus route and force the universe to behave. Yes, there'll always be characters that will be killed without an attempt at redemption (and I'd be surprised if Hux wasn't going in that direction). But there should also be a story in there, one example where healing is possible. And to break out the pathos, this is a message that the world needs today as much as ever. Stop playing the Emperor's game.

    In the end, does it need to be Kylo? I guess if, for example, Rey turned evil and came back, Kylo might still end up as unimportant for the message, and I'd be okay with that. Or maybe if Luke forgot his initial choice and turned dark over something and is brought back, but that does seem a bit unlikely based on Ep7.

    Not really a fix, since "Troy Denning" and "I don't like it when it's like that" are interchangeable. For a lot of people, actually. But thanks for wanting to help out.
     
  24. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    I was under the impression that the rough outline of the trilogy had been mapped out and locked in place and it was just a question of how the future directors wanted to get from point A to point B. I could be wrong though.

    Maybe. Since the extra information in the novelizations is canonical, I guess my view is to continue treating it as accurate until a movie actually contradicts something (although the new canon scheme is supposed to keep that to a minimum). Or, as Nick Fury said in The Avengers: "Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on."

    So, are you saying that you're hoping that if Kylo isn't redeemed, it's because he himself rejects it, not because the other characters won't offer any kind of forgiveness?

    (I kinda hope we don't do a "good characters turn evil and may or may not repent" story. I'm not really interested in that.
     
  25. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    Rancho Obi-Wan's BB-8 "shrine":

    [​IMG]

    I don't know what's up with that poor deflated-looking one in the bottom center.
     
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