Saga The Force, Dark Side, The Light, and "The Light Side"

Those are certainly aspects of the "good" side. I guess my point is, Luke and Anakin did what any person could have done in such a situation, even a non-Force user in AGFFA or in our world (which, actually, was kinda the point of the film.)

It was strength of character, rather than Force abilities, that saved the day.

 

I feel that the DarkSide could be Death. Only a sith lord deals in absolutes. Death is the ultimate absolute.
The light side in this sense is not a used term because it would refer to being alive or living things. The force
perhaps has a darkside and not a lightside because because death is always, or something weird like that. Think of the millenium falcon it is not a time machine yet it travels faster than the speed of light? Where are the time machines? Travel to a different star would require the ability to become smaller than an atom and then back to how you were before. I love Star Wars but it does not touch upon time travel at all. That is why there is no lightside.

 

Death is a natural part of life. That said, killing people unnecessarily, selfishly, or in fear or anger is the Dark Side.

 

In SW the Force, in and of itself , is simply a law of nature. Think of gravity, it is simply a fundamental part of out reality.
We can use our understanding of gravity to benefit orhers, tension bridges flight, etc that take gravity into acount , or to calculate rhe glide path of bombs etc.
Gravity really does not care how it is used, it is our own concept of good or bad that we place on its use.
The curveball that SW tosses us are Force created beings such as Anakin and possibly Rey.
Is the Force itself alive or is the Living Force that aspect of the Force that is manipulated by rhe Whills or MCs ?

 

Doesn't Snoke say something about "The light" ? Paraphrasing here : "There has been an awakening, have you felt it? Between the dark side and the light" ...? I realise that is from a trailer and may not be exactly what is said in the film.

 

Avnar wrote

Doesn't Snoke say something about "The light" ? Paraphrasing here : "There has been an awakening, have you felt it? Between the dark side and the light" ...? I realise that is from a trailer and may not be exactly what is said in the film.

I think it's fair to say that just because a character claims something (and especially an antagonistic one) "in-universe" doesn't automatically imply it's correct, but then again I don't know what the scriptwriter had in mind when Snoke said this thing.

Assuming that the Force needs balance (again, sic) in the ST, it makes sense from a certain point of view that the balance is somewhere between the dark and a "light" side.

 

Following the light/dark side is not necessarily or exclusively about using Force powers. The Force is in everyone, not only on those who can "use" it. For example, being selfish, acting on anger, fear, hate, is following the dark side. Being selfless, compassionate is following the light side.

Luke 'saved the day' by following the "light" side. It was his compassion and selflessness that made Anakin return to the "good" side and in turn fulfill the prophecy and save the galaxy.

 

I never said it was exclusively about using Force powers. The point of these films isn't the Force....the point of these films is about doing the right thing. "The Force", "Light" and "Dark" are just metaphors in these films that these behaviors fall under. The lesson for the audience is that one can, and should, act as the protagonists do, whether or not they wield powers.

 

I never argued that.

 

plus wheres the time travel right

 

Am I the only one who remembers the Father, the Son, and the Daughter? I know they are not THE Force, but the Daughter represents the Light side of the Force, the Son represents the Dark side of the Force, and the Father represents the Balance between them, always keeping both of them in check. Granted, in the episodes pertaining to them the Daughter doesn't seem like she needs to be kept in check, but she seems to want to destroy the Son because "he is evil and must be stopped" but the Father still loves the Son, and seeks to keep the two from tearing each other apart.

My point being... If the Light and the Balance are one and the same, why are there two separate entities to represent these aspects?

 

Rogue of Time wrote

Granted, in the episodes pertaining to them the Daughter doesn't seem like she needs to be kept in check, but she seems to want to destroy the Son because "he is evil and must be stopped" but the Father still loves the Son, and seeks to keep the two from tearing each other apart.

I find this rather odd, as the concept of yin and yang - which I thought had been the essential idea behind this TCW episode - doesn't even remotely suggest such hegemonic aspirations:

In Chinese philosophy, yin and yang (陰陽 yīnyáng, lit. "dark-bright", "negative-positive") describe how seemingly opposite or contrary forces may actually be complementary, interconnected, and interdependent in the natural world, and how they may give rise to each other as they interrelate to one another.

In Taoist metaphysics, distinctions between good and bad, along with other dichotomous moral judgments, are perceptual, not real; so, the duality of yin and yang is an indivisible whole. In the ethics of Confucianism on the other hand, most notably in the philosophy of Dong Zhongshu (c. 2nd century BC), a moral dimension is attached to the idea of yin and yang.[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang

 

The light side is not balance nor are they one and the same. The light side doesn't seek dominance. The dark side does. By keeping the dark side in check, there's balance.

 

I generally find the moral ambiguity of the EU and TCW appealing. The Force is used in both good and bad ways by Jedi and sometimes even Sith. In the films, I appreciate how Qui-Gon is focused on the moment more than the past and future. He's a wonderful Grey Jedi in more ways than one.

 

That's the thing that struck me as odd about these episodes. The Daughter is constantly fighting with the Son, stops Obi-Wan Kenobi from attacking the Son because "it's in (the Son's) nature (to act the way he is acting)", but then gives Obi-Wan the one weapon that is actually fatal to the Son, the Daughter, and the Father. In the end the Daughter ends up being killed with that same weapon, but only because she's throwing herself in front of the Father to prevent the Son from killing him (and thus escape into the Galaxy).

Point being that the Father seems to be trying to end the strife between the two so that they can all exist in peace, but the Son (the Dark Side) wants to exert his power and dominate things, which makes the Daughter feel like she needs to stop him. So the Light Side, represented by the Daughter, is trying to oppose the Son, the Dark Side, and prevent him from doing as he pleases. The Father, representing "the Balance" between the two, tries to calm and keep the Son's darker urges under control while not directly opposing him. So if "the Father" is merely trying to CALM the Son, and when the Son and Daughter start fighting he also similarly tries to STOP the fighting between the two, why does the "Daughter" represent "the Balance / Light" if she has Obi-Wan Kenobi get the Dagger of Mortis? The Dagger is obviously not to stop the Son fighting - it's to kill him. In this way the Light IS trying to squash the Darkness to stop it "once and for all", so to speak.

This is why I mentioned this in response to the TC. The Daughter's mere existence points to a "Light Side" of the Force that directly opposes the "Dark Side". The Jedi were heavily influenced by the "Light Side" and had many qualities similar to the Daughter's behaviors. The Daughter was kind, calm, patient, and understanding, but when it came to the "Dark Side" she would stand and fight against it. The Father, on the other hand, didn't see his Son (the Dark Side) as evil, and, as earlier commenters have pointed out, it was more of a "primal" aspect of the Force. The Father, Balance, sought to have both the Light Side and Dark Side (Daughter and Son) under control, not to have the Son (or Daughter) destroyed.

The Yin-Yang example someone pointed out points to what I mean as well: If the Daughter represents the "Light" and the Son represents the "Darkness" and the Father represents the two of them balanced with one another (Yin-Yang combined, as it were) then that means that the existence of a "Light Side" is confirmed through the existence of the Daughter. If there was no canonical "Light Side" then it would have just been the Father and the Son on Mortis and the Daughter would've been unnecessary.

 

There's no such thing as a 'grey Jedi'. It's an oxymoron.

The Daughter defends herself and others because the Son attacks.

The dagger's purpose is to control, not kill. It's stated in the dialogue. Also, balance is not an entity, it's a state. Keeping the dark side at bay, in control, not acting on it, is balance. That can only be achieved by following the light. The light doesn't create imbalance because, as I've previously said, it's not about nor strives for dominance.

 

New canon really make everything look more complicated. Even Supreme Pablo couldnt give the 100% correct definition of the Force, its Balance and sides.
Before the new canon everything looked pretty simply.
The Force never was the Yin/Yang dichotomy because unlike Yin the Dark Side was a material evil, not some abstract force used to Balance the opposite abstract force. Anger, hatred, greed, envy lead to the life corruption, human's soul and mind corruption and physical/mental death ultimately. Corruption wasnt the thing that can balance something. Its just pure destructive force. It destroys.
And since the Force was associated with the Life, the destruction only harms it, doesnt help to bring the Balance to it. This way Jedi teachings were ultimately right and appropriate. They defended the Force, the Life, and that means they tried to prevent the corruption, i.e. the Dark Side growth.
But now, many things somehow imply that Dark Side balances the Light Side but dont explain the mechanism and how it worked in OT and PT. I cant grasp how the Dark Side explained in PT and OT is able to bring the Balance.
The only idea i have is that without destruction the Life will engulf the whole Universe, so the Dark Side works like a population control mechanism.
But thats the matter of physical laws, not the spiritual. On spiritual level i fail to see how Dark Side could be used as the Balance stone.

 

Perhaps not an official label.....but a Jedi can be less of a Jedi at times, and still remain a Jedi.


From the TPM novelization:

He was slumped forward and motionless when the lasers abruptly went off again, and Obi-Wan Kenobi, seething with rage, rushed to his rescue.

Free at last of the laser wall, Obi-Wan Kenobi charged out of the service tunnel and into the chamber that housed the melting pit. Abandoning any pretense of observing even the slightest caution, he barreled into Darth Maul with such fury that he almost knocked both of them off the ledge and into the abyss. He struck at the Sith Lord with his lightsaber as if his own safety meant nothing, lost in a red haze of rage and frustration, consumed by his grief for Qui-Gon and his failure to prevent his friend's fall.

The battle wore on, and for a time it was fought evenly. But Darth Maul was the stronger of the two and was driven by a frenzy that surpassed even the frantic determination that fueled Obi-Wan. Eventually, the Sith Lord began to wear the young Jedi down. Bit by bit, he pressed him back, carrying the attack to him, looking to catch him off guard. Obi-Wan could sense his body weakening, and his fear of what it would mean if he, too, were to fall, began to grow.

Eyes fixed on the Sith Lord, Obi-Wan Kenobi went deep inside himself, connecting with the Force he had worked so hard to understand. Calming himself, stilling the trembling of his heart, and banishing his anger and fear, he called upon the last of his reserves. With clarity of purpose and strength of heart, he launched himself away from the side of the pit and catapulted back toward its lip. Imbued with the power of the Force, he cleared the rim easily, somersaulting behind the Sith Lord in a single smooth, powerful motion. Even as he landed, he was drawing Qui-Gon Jinn's fallen lightsaber to his outstretched hand.

Darth Maul whirled to confront him, shock and rage twisting his red and black face. But before he could act to save himself, Qui-Gon's lightsaber slashed through his chest, burning him with killing fire. The stricken Sith Lord howled in pain and disbelief.

 

In the Old EU
The Dark Side was a way of corrupting the force so was not natural

While The Light Side was the "true" form of the force

 

That's what some sources said. Others said something very different - so it wasn't clear just how accurate that was.

 

I am very sure that this is no longer canon
I think The Clone Wars contradicts everything the old EU told about the Force I mean the subject of the son the father the sister etc.

 

The newcanon certainly seems to be going with "the light side and the dark side are both natural facets of the Force as a whole" so far.

And of course there's the Bendu in Rebels Season 3. As Rebels Recon puts it "For lack of a better term, he is the Force". And in the finale (he's angry at both Rebels and Imperials) he says "I am the light. I am the dark. I am the Bendu".

 

I agree with that
I would not be surprised if there was a "gray side"
So yes
The Gray Jedi will be canon soon