ST The Force in The Last Jedi and moving forward

What do you all think will be the "Oh My God" (as Daisy put it) discovery about the Force in the movie?

 

Hmm??

 

Luke and Anakin both used the Force before they even knew they were strong in the Force (and a case could be made for Leia using it in ESB, despite telling Luke in ROTJ that the Force was a power she could never have, and could never understand.)

Another explanation for "criminals and ordinary people" not using the Force would be that this is why the Jedi would indoctrinate Force users as babies....to insure that they wouldn't use such powers inappropriately.

The third explanation, of course, is that your scenario was never demonstrated in the OT or PT because it wasn't the focus of the films.

 

Exactly. Luke and Anakin would have lived their lives in slavery or on a farm if it weren't for the intervention of a force user who changed their lives. It has also been suggested that Han's impeccable luck and timing is because he could tap into the force he didn't even believe in at the time.

 

Yoda: Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us.

The force exists in everything in the GFFA.

Obi-wan: It isan energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us, penetrates us, and binds the galaxy together.

I believe many people in the GFFA can actually tap to the Force even when they don't know (aren't trained).

Training makes you be able to better communicate and use the Force to do the things you want as opposed to using the Force subconsciously. Like Anakin, Luke and Leia did before they were trained on how to become calm, at peace and listen to the Force.

The way I interpret midi-chlorians personally, is more as a chicken and egg situation. The mids are high on a person that is highly attuned to the Force. But that could be that the mids are present because the Force is highly present or the Force is present because the mids are present but neither is there without the other.

 

I have to say I fundamentally disagree with this idea that the implication has always been this. Not anyone, even given the right circumstances and strength of will, is able to connect and use the force like a Jedi/sith force sensitive would. You are either born with it the ability or you're not. Why else would Jedi (and Palps at one point) seek out babies and young children who were born and displayed this force sensitivity, if just anyone given the right training and will could achieve the same. I think it's crystal clear that it is a 'genetic' gift and I really can't see any evidence whatsoever in the movies, clone wars, rebels or books to say otherwise.

"The Force is strong in my family, my father had it, I have it, my sister has it..."

 

This. I totally do not understand why more people don't subscribe to this headcanon. It makes so much sense!

 

I could buy that theory, but maybe those people would call it "intuition" or "good timing" or somesuch. Whether they could be trained to focus that energy is an entirely different matter.

 

I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny.

Finding him was the will of the Force

I fear nothing, all is as the Force wills it.

It's not people tapping into the Force, it's the Force tapping into people. That's why someone powerful in the Force can see the future, because the future is already planned out by the Force itself.
Perhaps that's why Luke has taken himself out of it? Puts himself on an island to take himself out of the control of the Force and break the cycle.

 

Well, in the trailer for TFA Luke's lines to Leia from ROTJ about the Force being strong in his family are meant for Rey, I think. But maybe they were meant for Ren. Be interesting if they were meant for Finn.

About the nature of the Force, maybe Luke will tell Rey that while you shouldn't embrace your dark side, you should face it. But that's not really knew. There's the Cave scene in TESB, and Luke facing Vader in TESB and ROTJ. Most people won't have seen Yoda in the finale for TCW, though.

 

Yoda: ...difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.

Obiwan: Even Yoda cannot see their fate.

Okay the Force may have no beginning nor end and everything is as the Force wills it. That can be, but if it is, it means that, to quote Morpheus:

• What happened, happened and could not have happened any other way.

 

there is still free will and the future is always in motion because it's not fixed. it can be changed by will.

both anakin and luke had a larger destiny. one chose to go, one chose to stay. fate made that decision for them but they themselves made their own larger decisions. to kill or not kill. to turn or not to turn. those personal choices of freewill are what forever dominate your destiny.

 

The Force seems to follow something like the Norse view of destiny, as a predetermined course of events that could nevertheless be changed by human agency, rather than say, the Fates of Greek myth, who's pronouncements were inescapable.

"In the Well of Urd live the Norns, three wise women who “carve into the tree the lives and destinies of children.” This is another expression of the influence of the past (the well) upon the present (the tree). All of the beings who live in the Nine Worlds of Yggdrasil, from humans to gods to salamanders, are subject to these carvings. However – and this is the crucial point to be grasped – what the Norns carve into the tree is the earliest form of the destinies of the beings who inhabit the Nine Worlds, but not their only possible form. Unlike the pronouncements of the Greek Fates, the words of the Norns are not necessarily absolute. The present (the tree) also influences the past (the well); having been written, the words carved by the Norns can be rewritten. All beings who are subject to destiny have some degree of power over their own destiny and the destiny of others. Everything and everyone uses this power passively, in some small way, merely by being a stopping-point in the course the water takes as it cycles through the well and the tree, thereby exerting some measure of influence over that course." https://norse-mythology.org/concepts/destiny-wyrd-urd/

Sith fanboy Yupe Tashu's view of destiny, and the Force, seems to regard the dark side as the only element able to an individuals predetermined path.

"The shadows cannot feel this themselves, for they are not conduits for the Force, but merely slaves to it. As are all living things. All are caught in the river of power that is the Force, trapped by its currents. Only those who wield the dark side of the Force are capable of changing those currents; they are riverbreakers. They do not surrender to fate. They are its foes." - Yupe Tashu ( Empire's End )

 

I decided to post this here since we're more focused on a force discussion. Any thoughts?

 

I think this move toward Balance will be a paradigm shift.

Right now with the Jedi, Sith, and whatever Kylo is, the Force is a tool hefted by the user. It is something to be used for good, evil and everything in between for the user's benefit.

I can see the shift becoming a philosophy where the Balanced Force dark and light together is the driving force, not the user. The user becomes the instrument of the Force and not the other way that the Jedi, Sith etc have approached it.

Obi-Wan said the following about the Force:

I see there being a change in philosophy: the Force in a unified, balanced nature is neutral. There is no natural light or dark. It binds all together and is something that should not be forced into a binary use. If the user lets the Force guide himself/herself and not the other way around. I think this is the mistake generations have made with the Force creating a battle between dark and light. That means it would be okay to be aligned with both dark and light internally.

In other words, the user does not move the Force, rather it is the Force that moves the user.

 

I think that will be luke's stance essentially. Snoke and Kylo will be the darkside equivalent. I don't think the light and darksides will disappear. I think both camps will journey deeper into the mythos that surround each path. In other words, instead of some sort of meeting or grey point, i think each side will be expanded on. They'll traver further apart. Each part is essential for the balance, but i don't think the concept of the light and dark will become blended. I think the "grey" will be an individual's choice. Light siders will do questionable things sometimes without falling to the darkside and vice versa.

 

Just a wild thought. Midichlorians are living things. The sith have red sabers because they make the other color crystals 'bleed' by bending them to their will (is this canon?). It can be implied that darkside powers, as Palpatine said, are unnatural because they are forcing the midichlorians to do things inherently wrong. Such as choking, lightning, or creating life in the case of Plagueis. If the force was evil would it not unbind everything? or create disharmony? Is the implication the force is inherently good? It is just some simple creatures that would never hurt anyone, but are made to do bad things? Anyhow, I do not like the idea of the force being a tool and a person can use it for good or evil. I think it diminishes what the force is. I'd rather Luke discover the force is basically living creatures and to use force powers is to basically make them slaves. That is why the Jedi must end. But after it is all said and done he will realize, or Rey, that a symbiotic relationship can exist somehow and the Jedi can exist. And the sith and dark jedi will continue to make the midichlorians bend to their will.

 

bring on the sith alchemy.